I've had 13 retries total, of which 9 of them are Foxtrot dances (5 Rocker Foxtrots, 3 Keats Foxtrot, 1 Ten-Fox). Let's just say I'm "foxtrot challenged"! I'm so glad there's no more Foxtrots to test!

Also, 10 of my 13 retries had one judge passing me (in the US, most tests require 2 out of 3 judges to pass). So it's not like I'm signing up for tests that I have no prayer of passing. Each time, I'm close and can pass on a good day. I also have a tendency to "play it safe" and hold back on test day, and in the end that tends to hurt more than help.

As the tests get harder, if I wait until I can "pass it standing on my head on a bad day", I probably will never test at all! Plus I'm the kind of person that needs to test to work harder. If I don't sign up to test, I just don't work as hard.

Of my retries,

3 were European Waltz (1 back in 1988, when you still had to do 3 patterns pair, 2 patterns solo). The other 2 retries were in 2001/2002... both coaches thought it was passing when we put in the papers.

3 Tango retries (all last year)

2 American Waltz retries (both in the last 4 months). First time we put the American Waltz out, it was because coaches felt it was relatively solid and since I was testing Tango, "why not". 2nd time on AW, we put the papers in, then I promptly came down with sinus problems and tested even though I hadn't hardly been able to do complete run-throughs for a week.

Now AW is on hold, between Pro-Am coming up and other irons in the fire.

MIF-wise, I trained for Pre-Bronze MIF and passed them less than a month after I started working on them. We started working on Bronze MIF but it's always been a "back of the burner" thing so I've never bothered to maintain them for testing. Coach pulls out different MIF from the test, though, each week and makes me do them. One of these days I'll get bored and spend a month bringing them to test standard.

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

My only retry was on my Intermediate moves test. It was the first time in 12 years that I had taken a US test and I had never taken a moves test before. It was like I forgot how to bend my knees. I know the nerves got the better of me -- plus my parents and boyfriend were there. When I retested it, I did not want anyone there and that I'd call them to let them know how it went. Needless to say, I passed. I am not looking forward to Novice. It's like a marathon but at least the two perimeter patterns (well, four if you count both directions) are at the beginning.

Keep your chin up (and your knees bent) Jazzpants. One lady at my rink had to take her Bronze MIF test 5 x before she passed.

I have only had a critique done of my Pre-Bronze MIF.
I will be taking my Pre-Bronze test in June. It will be my first try.

Of my retries, most were the results of nerves, one my heart just wasn't in it, & twice I skated well & thought I would have passed--but didn't.

I'll never forget the one time I tried Adult bronze FS--the sound system was so bad I could barely hear the music, so every little scratch my blades made sounded SO loud (also why I hate moves tests). It freaked me out & I missed my first jump, which I NEVER missed. So that freaked me out even more, & it just got worse from there! I don't know if I even landed one clean jump in the that whole program. Never tried it again, shortly after that I went back to dance.

The thing I wonder about this statement is whether those FS coaches have a figures background. In my area, the older FS coaches with a very strong figures background usually have kids (and adults) who can pass the Moves tests. It scares me that some FS coaches with no figures background and no dance background are having trouble getting kids through their tests.

I guess my main concern is: what is going to happen to the future of our sport with no figures, no figures judges and no one teaching who used to do them or teach them???? Arrrgghh!

The other thing I have definitely seen as far as adults testing is that the adult will often decide they are going to test and sign up for the test and then don't pass. The coaches sign the test application -- I don't know why, maybe they are just wimps, knowing that the person isn't going to pass but they let them go anyway, "for the experience".

I guess there are a lot of approaches. When I was a kid the worst thing that happened to me regarding testing was the night before I was to take my 2nd figure test my coach told me that there was no way in h*ll I was going to pass this test and he didn't know why I was even taking it (gee, why had he signed the papers). I was devastated. Another coach overheard me telling my parents about it -- I was crying -- and he got really angry with my coach and said that that kind of talk should never, ever happen.

Needless to say, I "flunked" (we didn't have the very PC "retry" back then) and got "pulled" after my third figure. They could do that in those days. If the judges felt after a certain number of figures that you weren't going to pass they would ask you to stop the test. It was devastating.

So, welcome to the wonderful world of figure skating, everyone!

__________________
Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

For what it's worth, it's not fun to judge a test that you know early on isn't going well for the skater... either due to nerves/"bad skate day" or because the skater clearly wasn't really ready to take the test.

It's one thing when a skater has one bad element or MIF, but the rest of the test averages out and the skater either passes, or ends up being marked just below passing average.

It's another when the execution is such that every MIF on the test ends up being marked down .1 or .2, and the judge ends up essentially writing the same basic comment (maybe slightly differently phrased because of differences in primary foci) on each MIF.

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

Anyone who's taken 30+ tests has definite respect in my book!

Here's my "statistics"...

Tests Taken: 26

Passed:
MIF - 6
Dance - 12
Freestyle - 5

Failed:
MIF - 2 (Pre-Juv, and Juvenile)
Freestyle - 1 (During my Intermediate free skate test I bombed!)

Edit: I'm taking Junior moves on Sunday as well...hopefully I'll pass and be done with the evil choctaws!

USFSA freestyle: 2
USFSA MIF: 1

ISI freestyle: 9

I've had to retake bronze MIF, ISI FS 1 and 2

__________________
Champagne in 2005, 2008, 2009 - who's next out of the pre-bronze club...?

Wang chung!

As of this afternoon, I've taken 20 tests altogether:

Pairs: 4
Moves: 5
Dance: 4
Freestlye: 3
Figures: 4

FAILED BOTH THE INTERMEDIATE MOVES (FOR THE THIRD TIME) AND INTERMEDIATE PAIRS TODAY. BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.

Oh, lovepairs! I'm so sorry (for both you and pairsman2!!!) Did you get good comments on your test forms? Anything new that you didn't know about, or is it pretty much stuff you know you have to work on?

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

MIF
prepreliminary p
preliminary p
prejuvenile f-p
juvenile f-f-f-f-f
skip to adult track when adult mif started
silver f-p
gold f-p
skip back to standard track
intermediate f-p

FREESKATE
prebronze p
bronze p
silver f-f-p

PAIR
preliminary p
bronze p
silver p
gold f-f-p
intermediate f

total all tests if my recollection is correct, 27

I started skating at age 21, so I know what you're saying here. I never attempted the Aussie Skate Ballet 2 test because I couldn't get my leg high enough for attitudes or turned out enough for Ina Bauers. I scraped through the spreadeagle in Ballet 1. After 20 years off, age 46, just getting my leg high enough for spirals is a major challenge.

As I said before, I wasn't trying to be snide with my question about retries, I was honestly just wondering. I would be devastated if I failed a test after putting so much work into it. I didn't get performance nerves back when I tested, but I certainly do now.

__________________
Karen

I skate - therefore I am

I've yet to even figure out HOW to take tests (as an adult) at my rink.

Dear Jazzpants,

Thanks for the kind words. Well, if we could read the judges (expletive deleted, so this thread doesn't get shut down, clear throat, I mean censored) handwriting, then maybe we could have learned something from it. I am going to write to the Governing Council to pass an amendment that, at the very least, all judges should be required to "print" their names and write clearly. The judges should be provided with more space to write comments in, too.

I think you can see how flipped out I am right now, but thanks Jazzpants, your kind words really help!

Love,
Lovepairs

Lovepairs, I'm sorry. I admire you for trying both tests. You've really accomplished a lot, and I'm sure you'll pass these two tests some day soon.

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"May the wind be at your back and the sun upon your face and may the wings of destiny carry you aloft to dance with the stars."

Oh, I'm sorry, lovepairs and pairman. But it was your first time with the pairs test, and Int is a high level. Be proud of yourselves for getting out there and going for it. Believe me, I understand your frustrations.

Don't give up! Keep working at it, and I know you'll be passing those tests before long!

P.S. Did Katy pass her test?

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

I got a better idea... have test chair give cheap laptops to the judges and have them type in their notes. At the end of the session, have the test chair take the laptops, hook 'em up to a printer and give a hard copy to you and send the soft copies over to USFSA, cc'ing you on your test results, so you would have a soft copy too. (Of course, the font must be something readable for old tired eyes...)

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Late as always, but here goes:

Moves:

Pre-pre: Pass
Prelim: Pass
Pre-juvenile: Pass
Juvenile: Fail, Fail, Pass
Intermediate: Fail, Fail, Pass
Novice: Fail, Fail, Fail, Fail, Fail, Fail, Fail, Fail (can't remember if it was 8 or 9. . .either way it's horrendously embarrassing)

Free:

Pre-pre: Pass
Prelim: Pass
Pre-Juvenile: Pass
Juvenile: Pass
Intermediate: Pass
Novice: Can't take since they haven't passed the moves yet!

Dance:

Prelim: Pass, Pass, Pass
Pre-Bronze: Pass, Pass, Pass

So what is that. . . 28 or 29, depending on how many Novice Moves tests I've taken. Yeesh!

__________________

"Without Vision the People Perish"
שלום לעולם תמיד

Trying to convey a thought of what needs iprovement or what primary focus wasn't met in 2 lines in about 20-30 seconds (max) with a test chair pushing you to keep moving on to the next skater (or the next MIF) is MUCH MUCH harder than it seems.

Or picking the 1 or 2 things and clearly conveying those issues.

FWIW, I either print my name or use a stamp.

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

Thanks, Moto...Thanks, Debbie S.

Again, your kind words are very very helpful. Yes, I will test Intermediate Moves, again, this coming Fall. Pairsman2 and I will put together a new program now, and take the Intermediate Pair test, again, after the Chicago AN. That's the plan.

Just a few things: Most people out there don't know this, but the Intermediate Pairs test on the Standard track has less difficulty in it then the Adult Gold Pairs test, even though passing the Intermediate Pairs makes one a Master Pair in the "Adult Pairs" world. Since we passed the Adult Gold Pair test, and we skated a clean program yesterday with several elements that were above the Intermediate test, we thought we should have passed. We were not awarded any extra credit at all for the advanced elements, and all three judges failed us.

Jazz,

Yes, Laptops would be the obvious solution, which I sure 80% of the judges out there, if not owning one themselves, should have access to one. Then all the USFSA needs to provide is a simple easy software, where you can just pull up the test you are giving and fill it in. The USFSA should also offer Dells for judges to purchase at a discount, which can be easily done.

All of this chicken scratch really has to go. Hey, does anyone out there know how to post a petition? Would some one post a new petition thread, just asking people if they would sign a petition about this issue. One that the Adult Committee could actually get on the agenda. Let's face it, the system is archaic and insulting as it is now: I work my butt off to take these test then I don't even have access to the critique, because it's illegible. Hey, I paid through the nose for this product and got nothing (I'm calling the better business bureau.) No, really when you think about it, we do pay a lot of money to take these tests, and besides it going to ice time and to feed the judges, don't you think we should get what we paid for? Pass or Fail, we have paid for the critique, not an abstract painting; see what I'm saying. Okay, guys, the skating mom's are not going to spearhead this, because they don't want to rattle the system for their kids, the kids probably think it's fun trying to untangle the Da Vinci Code (call the new thread the Da Vinci Code), the coaches are too busy coaching--so, it is only "Adult Skaters" who can fix this and blast it out of the dark ages. This should have been fixed when they started bringing in computers for the new Code of Points system.

Thanks everyone! Pairsman2 and I will come back stronger, and we will pass these tests!

I assume you are aware that you are allowed to request to speak with the judges when they are finished the test session or when there is a break (like another warm-up group for the test session, or an ice cut).

Concerning use of laptops, given that most rinks have very little in the way of power sources (outlets) in the hockey boxes that most of us end up sitting or standing in while test sessions are underway, I think that the logistics of the proposal need to be carefully thought through.

It's not only the PROCUREMENT of the Laptops, and the development of software that is both user-friendly to the skater and user-friendly to the judges and test chairs (would you prefer something that's the equivalent of "color in the dots"), it's the logistical and procedural issues.

- Time to validate that all the laptops are working. Most test chairs have full-time jobs and families. Preparing for a test session already takes a lot of time, especially if the test session is a large one like my club runs (our MIF/FS test sessions average 8-9 hours duration, almost every month).

- Time during a test session for someone to reboot their laptop because it went belly up in the middle of a test (would you like to be the skater who has to reskate an element not because you skated it slightly sub-standard and the reskate may enable you to pass the test, but because a judge's computer died in the middle of your test? And don't say, well, just have another judge on the panel take over, because that could pose a new set of issues in and among itself.)

- Time to ensure that there is sufficient power and/or battery for the laptops. Most laptops I've used last perhaps 3 hours on battery in normal temperatures. That duration drops quite a bit in a cold damp environment such as rinkside.

- Time and space to erect small tables/trays to place the laptops. Otherwise there is the potential for damage. How many people have propped laptops on their laps and had the laptops slide because they slightly changed position. For example, standing or shifting position to see what the skater's element looked like at the far end of the rink, on a full-circuit MIF pattern. Simply placing the laptop on the barrier wouldn't work very well either, from what I've seen of the number of times clipboards and rulebooks and PSA books have fallen off the barrier during test sessions.

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

laptops for all the judges? Skating is already expensive enough. We are seeing the effects of the IJS system on entry fees, watch costs skyrocket on tests if laptops are required.

__________________
Champagne in 2005, 2008, 2009 - who's next out of the pre-bronze club...?

Wang chung!

About talking to the judges: been there, done that.

First, it's 2006, I think rinks can update their power sources, or run a few extension cords with power strips when needed. Yes, of course, I understand the expense involved, but, everything in this lifetime requires an investment if you want to move ahead and make progress. I think it would be a worthwhile investment, and I bet in a few years we see this trickle down effect from the computers and software systems being used by the ISU for the new Code of Points.

Having said that and taking into account your concerns, at the very least, require that the judges PRINT their names, so we know who we are to address when we have questions, and ask them to write clearly as much as possible given the current system. Again, I believe we work very hard to put it out there and make a big financial investment to do so, and we should be able to walk away with a legible critique from which to learn, whether it is a pass, or retry.

First, sorry about your re-trys. Hopefully you'll get them next time!

Second, rinks aren't going to upgrade anything unless it helps their hockey clients, who really pay the bills in the rink. Hockey players don't need electricity in the boxes, so I doubt rinks would go to any additional expenses, unless the figure skating club itself decides to pay for it. Just my 2 cents....

Third, here's my list....

ISI (as a kid):
Freestyle 1 - passed
Freestyle 2 - passed
Freestyle 3 - passed
Freestyle 4 - passed
Freestyle 5 - passed
Freestyle 6 - passed

USFS (as a kid):
Preliminary figures - passed
1st figures - passed (I might have failed this one once)
2nd figures - failed umpteen times and quit skating

Preliminary freestyle - passed

Preliminary dances (Dutch Waltz, Canasta Tango, Swing Dance) - passed

USFS (as an adult)
Adult Pre-Bronze freestyle - passed
Adult Bronze freestyle - passed
Adult Silver freestyle - passed
Adult Gold freestyle - passed

Adult Gold MIF - passed
Intermediate MIF - passed

Pre-Bronze dances (Swing Dance, Cha-Cha, Fiesta Tango) - passed.

21 tests passed, and the only tests I ever failed -- figure tests -- failed more times than I can remember.

__________________
"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown