Ahh, now I understand. Just in time too, because I have been observing people doing these 1 foot slalom thingies and even had a try myself this morning, before realising I was lacking power in it.

The other day someone referred to them as 1 foot change of edges, which to me means a totally different thing from my figure days.

Now I know what they are and that I can't yet do them right, this thread will be really useful to me.

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

Actually, while I'm asking terminology questions, what are "cross rolls"

For a while I thought they must be crossovers, but apparently not.

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

And along with that lesson, comes another lesson - learn how to stop on one foot (or at the very least, at least make sure you had a blade to do a T with...) (Renatele: I'm still LMAO and this is like the fourth time I've watched that video. WAAAAY too funny!!!)

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I'm pretty sure they're a left outside edge to right outside edge and back, crossing over between.

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"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
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Yes. And you should be generating or at a minimum maintaining power as you execute them.

Note... there are also cross-steps, which have no power generation associated with them.

In Cross-rolls, you start on one outside edge (assume forward cross-rolls for this description). Then, cross over with the other skating foot, but the blade will be on an OUtside edge (so that instead of continuing on the SAME lobe as with a cross-over, you're on a new lobe). As you continue to push across with the new skating foot, you push under with the old skating foot, to generate power.

There is a bit of opposition twist between the upper body and the lower body as you do them, but you shouldn't be majorly twisting back and forth.

Cross-rolls are best done with good knee/ankle bend, also. Think about being down in your knees as you get ready to do the cross stroke, then as you skate onto that new crossed FO edge, keep bending some more in the knee and ankle.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

They are also done backwards, in which case the free foot is pulled behind the skating foot on to an outside edge. Again, good knee-bend is required, and a pretty good rise and fall in the knee, too. And you need to be able to point your heel at the opposite barrier - at least, if you think that, chances are, your heel will be in the right place. And you have to think "toes up" too, or you'll catch your toe-rake and go flying.

I love forwards cross-rolls, though, and can generate a lot of power (well, a lot by my standards, anyway) on them. My coach likes me to do "variable-speed" cross-rolls, where you start off holding each edge for about 4 beats, and by the time you get to the far end of the rink you are only holding each edge for 1 beat, and still accelerating. It's good fun, and good training for the quick cross-rolls in, say, the Paso Doble (although we have several lower dances with quick cross-rolls in them, too).

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

On power pulls, I find that I get the most power when I:

1) Focus on doing it all with my knees and ankles (keep the upper body still)

2) Consciously think, "Inside. Outside. Inside. Outside" so that I really get onto each edge completely and push hard against whatever edge I'm supposed to be on.

For forward power pulls, I keep my knees together and "steer" with my knees. For backward power pulls, I keep my free leg relaxed and bent, and not pressed against the skating leg. On backward power pulls, I "steer" with the heel of my skating foot. Inside. Outside. Inside. Outside. . .

Still not sure I get the cross rolls.
Are they something mainly in ice dancing, or do I need to understand them for freestyle?

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

Celliste--

If you're planning on doing any USFS Moves Testing you will need cross rolls. They are on the Juvenile and Adult Silver MITF tests. I've been working on them off-and-on for more than a year. I actually like the Forward Crossrolls, but the Backwards ones and I have been battling, since I don't seem to turn my heel far enough towards the barrier (great advice, Mrs. Redboots!) or I don't seem to bend my knees enough to get good power on the push... but these ARE getting better! Now, if I could just learn to love LBI 3-turns!

Cross-rolls take time...

After many years, my coaches still see a need for improvement on mine. My right over left cross-roll is gorgeous, my left over right is less so, with minimal power. I can fake it going down the ice with long-lobe cross-rolls doing drills, but the lack of proper edge and control on the left-over-right shows up big time in the Paso.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

Here in the UK, forward ones are in the lowest level Field Moves test, and back ones in the next level up. Not sure what happens to them when the new Moves tests come in next year, though.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

There's a great exercise for improving edges on cross rolls (cross strokes). On a hockey line, do three in a row, crossing the line at a right angle each time. On the third, hold the edge until you have made a complete circle back to the line, whereupon you begin again in the other direction and make the next circle on the other foot. You can do this with both F and B, although I won't do the B unless there is someone to watch my back for me, or the rink is almost completely empty. The deeper your edges, the smaller the circle. I'm always challenged to get a real circle instead of having a big bulge on the returning side.

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FORWARD CROSS ROLLS: You basically just do alternating Right-over-Left and Left-over-Right crossovers so that you end up going in a straight line and looking like you have to go to the bathroom. (You can't do these without changing edge from inside-to-outside on each crossover stroke, but you'll find that out when you try it.)

BACKWARD CROSS ROLLS: You can think of these as back cross-behinds, rather than cross-overs. If you're gliding backwards on the left foot, you will slide your right foot--heel first--behind the heel of the left foot and push off onto the right back outside edge. You ride the arc of that edge, then you bring the left foot--heel first--behind the heel of the right foot and push off onto it, onto a left back outside edge. Repeat down the length of the rink. . . if you dare. . .

We did these to music at Aspen's Adult Skate Camp a couple of years ago. It was interesting seeing the different sizes of circles everyone did... not too many of us were even-sized circles (even just forward or just backward) at the beginning of the week.. but everyone seemed to be getting more bilatral by the end of the week. It also created a very cool pattern on fresh ice!

I'm afraid that turns out not to be the case, since a crossover is on to an inside edge, and a cross-roll must be on to an outside edge. No edge-change - you must put your foot down on an outside edge. Plus you must bring it across in front of the skating foot, not put it down beside.

Indeed, and forward ones are done the same way, only going forward, with the foot coming in front.

You can also do (my nemesis move, at the moment) back cross-cuts, or cross strokes, or whatever you call them, where you are going backwards on an outside edge and must put the free foot down on an outside edge in front of the skating foot, and repeat. These are the other move in the present level 3 Dance Moves, and the one that I am going to fail on if I fail! I find it all but impossible to put my foot down in front of me while keeping my weight back - they are coming, now, but they are unreliable and the edges aren't very secure. My coach says I put my feet down flat and rock on to an edge, which I think is probably accurate!

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Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

ooh, those sound fun . I don't think we have those in the USFSA moves in the field tests.

They show up in the Junior rocker pattern, and sort of in the Junior choctaws. You never have to skate an entire length of them, unless your coach makes you because she thinks it's a good drill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan
OK, if this link still works, you will see a power pull in action and find out why it is useful

http://skatingforums.com/showthread....ht=coach+video



I was just watching America's Funniest Videos tonight, and they showed a string of skating mishaps, and this was the second video! They only showed the blade-breaking fall, though. Too bad....the attempted T-stop fall is the funny one! I mean....when you have your blade in your hand, you ought to remember that it's not on your foot!

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I was actually just trying to give a basic visual of what the move would look like, and not really get into the details of the edges. I have to admit I never noticed whether I put my foot down on an inside edge or an outside edge, but I got good marks on the move so I must have done them right in spite of myself, LOL. I'll have to do a few and see what edge I'm on. . .

I just saw it too, since you brought it up!!!

I could see Renata watching American's Funniest Video and thinking "Hey! That's my coach! And it's D*** FUNNY!!! Tee hee hee!!! "

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Oh they did finally show it! I asked Jonathon in summer if he considered sending it to AFV, and he said he did send it to them, but they were not interested.

Too bad I missed seeing it in TV, though...

(edited: actually, scratch that, IIRC he said it just didn't seem to be funny enough to AFV, and didn't get anywhere near being close to the top ones. True, non-skaters will not find it as funny as we do)

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--renatele