If you're pushing out onto the 3-turn from a RBO edge (usually a mohawk exit), try pushing out slightly outside of the circle, rather than staying on the same circle. That will make your 3-turn entry more controlled and less curly, which will make it easier to control the exit as well. Also, keep your shoulders and head completely still and squared, rather than turning your head during the 3-turn (you may not even realize you're doing it).

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

So today I started learning the salchow. My main problem is that it's underrotated. But can anyone direct me to a slow-mo video of this jump? also, any learning tips would be appreciated!

thanks

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Here's a triple salchow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKvA8Lf2iY

Here's me doing a few single ones (they passed the test, but they do have errors in them, keep in mind! The triple salchow girl is presumably doing it technically correct though!) on my youtube (first there's 2 bad toeloops in slowmotion on that video, then the salchows)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuBqeLb0-84

Note, I'm doing the salchow from a 3-turn, and the triple salchow girl is doing it from a mohawk. But what really matters is that you're on a left inside edge (right inside if you jump clockwise) before takeoff.

Also, kick from your heel and not your toe to avoid catching the ice, and I've had to learn to kick like... Like you'd kick a ball, in a straight line, instead of swinging the leg around like for a scratch spin like I did at first (and still do a little), because that really de-stabilizes your air position, and also makes it harder to get around in the air because you've got this big leg sticking out on the side, slowing your rotation down.
Also it helps to pull in your arms, you'll get the rotation easyer that way. But I've jumped it with arms all stretched out at first, but then you need to jump higher.
And oh yeah it helps me to push my shoulders and arms down on the 3-turn entry and it helps me to think like... "straight-straight-up!" making the 3-turn kind of flat, not VERY curvy.

oh thank you, Sessy, that video really helped! Also, even if your toeloops weren't amazing (no offence!), I can still see how you're meant to do them. So thanks for that too, I can now try learning the toeloop in patch. because I've been doing a half-toeloop so far.

BTW, how do you make your vids go in slow-mo?

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Before you start copying my toeloop, read what people had to say about it in my thread:
http://www.skatingforums.com/showthr...t=23443&page=3

lol, i wasn't going to copy it, but I do see the IDEA in it

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfFHJ...elated&search=

Here's one from Ice Moves with slo mo!

Focus on getting a deep knee and ankle bend just before taking off, and point your toes of your takeoff foot as you take off. That will give you more rotation and more spring.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

That's good to see it in slo mo from different angles. I have to ask though, when I watch these videos, it looks to me like the skater has their free foot actually touching the ice as they sweep it forward.

Is this an optical illusion, or is it meant to be done that way?

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

That's good to see it in slo mo from different angles. I have to ask though, when I watch these videos, it looks to me like the skater has their free foot actually touching the ice as they sweep it forward.

Is this an optical illusion, or is it meant to be done that way?

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

It's not an optical illusion, if you look carefully her free leg makes some snow. But my teacher claims it's not supposed to be done that way. But then I've never seen my group class teacher do doubles or triples, and this girl does them... So I dunno.

Ah another skatefan controversy. I have not seen it, but I have heard the ISU has videos of famous skaters doing things you are not supposed to do -and none other than Brian Boitano doing a two footed take off on the his triple salchow. Goebel's famous quad salchow was often naysayed for that take off. And then there were those that claimed if you look close enough EVERYONE does it.

j

I was thinking the same thing, and I know your definitely not supossed to touch your free foot down.

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Jessica

http://ilove2skate.livejournal.com/

http://www.myspace.com/sk8fabulous

I got a LOT of good advice in this thread . . .

Moderator Edit: Merged threads, removed link.

Hmm. I first learned the jump "by feel", and getting a good rhythm to it. Last week I tried to go step-by-step the way my book (Petkevich) describes it, and unsuprisingly I couldn't do it, since it's now happening in my head and not my body (yet). I do wonder if I'm very confused about the take-off arms though? Petkevich writes;The take-off does feel like a waltz to me, both when I was doing it by feel, and now. But do you really bring *both* arms back? None of the videos showed the skating (CCW: left) arm passing back in the way of a waltz. It seems like it *should* be more of a bounce off the check of the three-turn: pulling in, mostly?

Second Q: I'm doing the whole setup for the jump: RI mohawk, step to RO edge, rotate arms, step to LO edge. This builds up a lot of rotational momentum, and makes the jump easier for me. Is this "cheating"? Is it better that I learn to do it directly from a LO edge?

thx.

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Me, on skating. Me, on me.
"It is amazing how complete is the delusion that beauty is goodness." ~ Tolstoy, via JWeir.
"I am not a pretty girl. That is not what I do." ~ Ani DiFranco

It sounds like you were probably doing everything right and the Petkevich wording just confused you (heck, it sure confused me!). I think it's good to do the RFI mohawk, RBO edge, then LFO 3-turn for the salchow takeoff. There's a good reason most skaters do it that way in their programs. As for the arms, keep your left arm in front of you at 11:00 and your right arm to the side at 3:00 from the 3-turn entrance to the 3-turn exit, keeping the shoulders completely still the whole time. As you reach the end of the 3-turn exit edge, deeply bend your left ankle and knee, bring your free leg to 2:00 and bring the right arm to 1:00 so that your hips and shoulders are squared with each other. Now spring up off the toepick and bring your right leg through, leading with the inside of the right thigh, and free foot pointing you in the direction of travel (so that the rest is just like a waltz jump). I sure hope this made more sense than the Petkevich description, but if not, let me know and I'll try again, LOL!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Now *I'm* confused and I CAN do the jump... What does he mean do a 3-turn at the end of the back inside edge! Aren't you taking off from the back inside edge?! And where's the waltz in there, I've been doing this jump for 6 months and I didn't notice any waltzes there. I do think it's a little similar to my axel attempts but not at all to my waltz jump!

I don't do it, but then I'm only on singles. I'm just wondering whether I should try to do it, whether it might make this darn jump easier. I can do them without any problems, it's just that I can't get the timing right, and I wonder whether sweeping the free foot forward on the ice helps with finding that take off moment. I can imagine it would help a lot on momentum and rotation in doubles and above.

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

sunjoy you may have explained my problem! when I practice the sal for the second time, after reading books etc it was actually worse than when I was just shown it and tried to guess my way around...

also, thanks for your prep tips! I will try the mohawk-> edges on thursday. You're a CCW skater, right? (so I need to reverse your instructions)

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By the way everybody jumping the opposite way might wanna look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5NE8...elated&search=

well what can I say, the girl who is jumping CW looks like me. i.e. falling on my butt a LOT.

however, I wish I were that good at a biellman spin. or any spin for that matter...

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I think I tend to check the 3 slightly, but "keeping the shoulders still" [with respect to the axis of the hips I assume], may furncionally be the same thing as "keeping a virtually straight print" on the exit of the 3, prior to bending the knee? I do try to do that.

Bringing the leg to 2:00, and then later bringing "it through" confuses me slightly. When I was doing the jump naturally without over-thinking it, it felt like my free leg *was* at around 2:00, almost "dangling" there. Later I've been trying to drive through from behind to in front, without that dangling feeling. I take it you're saying to go back to the dangling version, but to forcefully drive the knee through forward to get a bigger jump?

"3-turn" is probably the wrong word. On a back 3, you rock to the back of the blade, and obviously nothing like that happens with the sal. What he means, I think, is that your BI edge curves very sharply before takeoff, to the point that if you didn't leave the ice, you'd pivot around on or near your toe-pick -- and that's exactly what happens if I have to abort the jump for some reason.

I also think that when he says "waltz takeoff", he means "waltz/axel takeoff": a forward-facing takeoff from the toe-pick. As opposed to a back-facing takeoff from the edge of the blade, which is what I *thought* a sal was, untill I actually tried it. If you notice an axel-ish movement, that's probly what he's referring to.

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Me, on skating. Me, on me.
"It is amazing how complete is the delusion that beauty is goodness." ~ Tolstoy, via JWeir.
"I am not a pretty girl. That is not what I do." ~ Ani DiFranco

Sessy,

The 3 turn in the salchow is the first part of the jump. The first part of the jump is supposed to occur on the ice. It's very controlled and then you spring up and out. On a double you would spring up, out and then pull in for the rotation.

teresa

out? How do you spring out?

(I'm sure the language barrier is messing with my head somewhere here, also we've always learned you can do a salchow either from a 3 turn or mohawk...?)

Are you saying you take off from the back of the blade on the salchow? I've always taken off from the front?