Info is up on USFS site.
http://usfsa.org/event_details.asp?id=32955

Check out:
Addendum A to Adult Committee Proposal
(Eek! A maximum of only *two* spins for silver level?! )

2006 GC Requests for Action - Technical Group

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"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
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Wow, you called it Nova, only up to 2-loop for Gold Level. Will be interesting to see who decides to level up in order to compete a full arsenal of doubles...

I'm going to have to re-do some of my spins so that I don't get deducted for insufficient revs, yikes!

I'll help you with those spins if you help me with the axel!!!

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

Same with Bronze too!!! Not happy at all about it. (This is for cases where I can skate up...)

*sigh* Time to go into ice dancing!!! Any guy out there wanna do the Dutch waltz with me? (I hate jumps!!!)

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

If there are items you disagree with, please let people who can do something about it know! Tony Conte, other members of the adult committee, your own club's board members who will be either attending GC or giving proxies to others... These are all going to be voted on, so make your opinions known to the people who will be representing you.

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Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

I'm happy they are limiting the number of jump elements and spins. Otherwise, there is a temptation, especially with IJS, to pack the program with elements and the programs may end up looking too busy and rushed, with not enough actual skating and flow inbetween elements. I also like the idea of being rewarded for holding fewer spins for more revolutions than more spins for fewer revolutions.

I agree with Joan on this one. It sounds okay to me. I'm looking forward to having time to actually hold spins and stuff like spirals, eagles and bauers as opposed to rushing to the next jump or spin because I have to do a ton of each of them to rack up the points.

The other interesting bit about the proposal is that it looks like they are requiring everyone in masters to do an axel AND a combination. Below masters and above bronze they say that the jump elements may include an axel and they allow for combinations. However for masters level they say that the jump elements MUST include an axel and AT LEAST one combination. I guess for masters level skaters this isn't a big deal but I just find it interesting that they're putting it in writing that they expect at least these two items to be completed.

Maybe, but the Request for Action states that "If this proposal passes, the adult free skate (singles and pairs) and dance Well-Balanced Program requirements (see Addendum A) would be modified in order for judging to be in line with principles of the IJS." The well-balanced program requirements would likely be changed to match what is in the O'dorf competition.

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

My issue is with the spin limit in silver. The current well-balanced program requirements say a MINIMUM of three spins, and now they're changing it to a MAXIMUM of two. But allowing five jump elements, which seems to really benefit the jumpers over the spinners.

About the jump combinations: every level specifies that there must be AT LEAST ONE jump combination or sequence.

There's something else I didn't notice which applies to every level as well: Jumps may be repeated only once and only in combination and/or sequences. That means that if you did a loop-loop combination, you couldn't do a lutz-loop, for example. Or if you did lutz-loop-loop as your one allowed three-jump combination, you couldn't do another loop anywhere in your program. They implemented this rule for juvenile and up this year on standard track (but for doubles, not singles).

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Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

I don't have a problem with that.

I think this means that program requirements of Gold and above will be adjusted away from the addendum A description, because they will be judged by IJS, whereas Silver and below, which are still judged by 6.0, will have the addendum A requirements (if they are passed). Is that how you also interpret this passage? In any case, as a Bronze level skater, I'll be glad to not feel compelled to have more than 4 jump elements and 2 spins in a 1'40" program.

OK, I agree that could be a problem...

Of course you wouldn't.

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Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

I think this is also geared for the new judging system despite the fact that whether or not this passes, silver skaters will still be judged under the 6.0 system. Single jumps are worth less when compared to spins, especially if they have added features which increase their level. By capping the number of spins allowed, I think that perhaps they're trying to ensure we won't see programs where we have a bunch of spins and just a few jumps under the NJS.

However, I think that jumps have been limited to a certain extent as well. Under this addendum, you would only be allowed to repeat jumps (whether they're singles, doubles or triples) once and one of those two attempts must be in combination (almost like a Zayak rule for singles and doubles so to speak). That's going to limit the number of jumps a skater can try anway.

Edited to add: I didn't notice that Loops edited her post as well. My apologies for the redundant redundancies.

True, I give you that. I'd MUCH rather hold my sit spins a LOT longer!!!

However... my issue with it has to do with choreography. If I was skating up to Bronze and I have a test program with three spins, I would have to figure out something to put where my third spin is... (But I am glad for the jump restrictions though.)

Then again, I'm not competing 'til my Bronze tests are pass and then I'm doing a brand spankin' new competitive program!!! What am I complaining about???

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Maybe the two spins for Bronze is a good idea. But per these guidelines, the only difference in the number of elements between Bronze and Silver would be one jump element. With 30 additional seconds I think Silver can handle the additional spin without cluttering up the programs too much.

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Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

Also, there is a maximum of five different single jump elements, which may include the axel. With toe loop, salchow, loop, flip, lutz, and axel, one of these jumps has to be chacked. Ok, so I cannot do an axel, so it's no real problem for me.

(ETA: Thanx for the explanation skaternum. I would have this read as "jump passes.")

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

I actually like the limitations on jumps. Notice that they restrict you to 5 jump elements. A combo is a "jump element." A sequence is a "jump element." A jump in isolation is a "jump element." This means that at silver, to get max jump points, I could do 3 combos/sequences and only 2 jumps in isolation. This is actually LESS than what I've done and seen in silver competitions under the current rules.

As for the spins, I think it's interesting. I'd love to see a couple of 2- or 3- position spins, with each position recognizable and held for at least 3 revs. We're sure not seeing THAT across the board at silver these days.

For comparison, my last silver program had (reaching way back in the memory bank):

Jumps
salchow
flip
lutz
loop-loop combo
lutz-loop combo
flip- falling leaf- toe sequence

Spins
camel-sit
back spin
front attitude spin
sit

The front attitude spin really counts as an upright spin.

So I had 6 jump elements and 4 spins. Under the proposed rules, I'd have to lose a jump and rearrange my spins so I have 2 combo spins instead. Not that big a deal to me. I think this will actually benefit strong spinners, because you can jam all your positions into points-grabbing combos with changes of feet. Those of us who are spinning challenged (we like to think of it as "rotationally disabled") will be stuck with eeking out a few points for spins in isolation or one-footed combos.

I agree, Loops, there should be more separating Bronze from Silver (unless someone thinks the extra spin would be an deterrant to Bronze skaters wanting to move up.

Nothing about Pre-Bronze, so I guess their requirements stay the same? That's interesting, considering Pre-Bronze currently allows a max of 3 spins. Please, no snarky comments about Pre-Bronze not being a real level - we've been through that enough on the other thread....

I see the spin restrictions in Bronze and Silver as a real problem as far as the test for each level is concerned. Right now, the Bronze test requires 3 spins (and I assume the Silver one is the same - sorry, I'm not that familiar with the Silver test, since I pretty much have no hope of ever getting there). It seems odd (and a serious conflict) to require more spins for the test than you would be allowed to do in comp. (and if the test requirements get changed, who else wants to vote for elimination of the backspin? )

I guess the jump restrictions will benefit the non-jumpers like me , but there goes my idea of having a loop-loop combo and a solo loop later on in a Bronze program (to load up my program as much as I can since I don't have a lutz). I guess it'll have to be the loop-loop and 2 flips, with one of the flips in a combo - yikes, I better get cracking on that flip!

Personally, I don't see why program requirements for Silver level and below should be changed at all, since we're not going to be judged under IJS.

As for the pairs elements, I think they should allow 2 pair spins for gold, but really ... I don't care. I think, for most of the pairs, we try to put into our program things we can do. If David & I don't meet the well-balanced program minimums, we get dinged and move on. We're not trying to maximize our points, or win medals, or kick Paul & Judy's a**es. We're just trying to NOT KILL OURSELVES, not look TOO stupid, and to have fun. I realize others feel differently, but I just don't get worked up over the pairs requirements. Lots of us at the Gold level are there because of our old freestyle tests (or our partner's 20 year old freestyle test -- curse him!), not because of our Gold pairs tests. Lots of us are there by accident, so we just read the rules and then say, "That's nice, but what can WE do?"

The new restrictions make it look like fewer spins than jumps, but with required number of revolutions, that's definitely asking for quality over quantity. I think when people are learning their spins, it's more difficult to have a consistent 3 revolutions in each position than to have a 1 or 2 revolution. Also by limiting jump elements, it prevents lopsided development of certain jumps. I've seen skaters with good lutz-loops but terrible toe loops just because they weren't valued as much at their level.

In the long run I think the competitve restrictions will help develop a more balanced skater with emphasis on balanced development and quality over quantity at each level.

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Interesting - ISI will let you "step down" a level if you find you can't compete at the highest test level. The rule was designed for returning skaters. You have to advise them that you want that to happen, of course.

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I'm confused by the wording. It gives minimum test requirements (such as Gold tests or Juvenile tests) for both partners, then it says: "However, any one of the partners may have passed higher tests such as the standard intermediate pairs test, ... OR any of the repsective intermediate, novice ... free skate tests." Emphasis added is mine.

So is this saying that a pairs team where both skaters are true masters skaters (both pased intermediate pairs or freeskate or above) can't compete in the championship event?

Does this mean you could compete if you're:
gold-gold
gold-masters

But you can't compete if you're:
masters-masters
??

Not in USFSA. You're bound by your highest test passed, regardless of when you took it. Mind you, they probably have no way of checking on it if it was a long time ago, but that's the theory. My partner passed his juvenile freeskating test over 20 years ago, before pre-prelimnary or pre-juvenile even existed. It was so long ago, he couldn't even remember what level he'd passed. (Okay, those of you who know him know that he probably couldn't remember what he had for breakfast, but I digress...) USFSA HQ ad no record of him passing freeskating tests. But because we're honest and want to do the right thing, we put a lot of effort into digging up his old test records with his club and had them submitted to USFSA. Not everyone necessarily goes to those lengths, but you're supposed to identify your old test levels and compete at the appropriate level.

The fact that there are age brackets in USFSA helps mitigate the effect of this. Most of the people in Gold age class IV didn't JUST pass their Juvenile freeskate. Most of them probably passed it years ago, so it sort of levels things out.

It is worded very poorly, but I think it means that to compete at Masters Pairs level, both of the skaters must have passed Gold pairs or freestyle, or juvenile pairs or freestyle as a minimum requirement and that having passed higher tests is fine. What is confusing about the wording is that is sounds like a pair where both have tested higher than Gold or Juvenile is ineligible, or if you started as a silver pairs and then tested up to gold pairs, you would be ineligible. I don't think these are the intended meanings, however. Hopefully the wording will be fixed at Governing Council.