So I haven't skated much at all the past couple months. On the bright side, I'm getting caught up on bills and have a little bit of leftover money.

But the other night I was hanging out with my skating friend Tabitha watching some of the pair skating at the Olympics, and she made the comment that she'd pair skate with me if I wanted. Heck yes I wanted! So I'm holding her to it. In another 2 months after this loan I have is finally paid off and done for, I'm going to get us some lessons with a coach who was formerly the French national pairs champion (whom I was going to hire on as my coach anyways whenever I started skating again). I'm also going to be spending plenty of time in the gym, since right now I can only comfortably handle 60-70 pounds overhead, and I need to double that which is going to take some serious work. But whee I'm excited!

So my question is this - for the next couple months we'll probably be able to skate about once a week - what are some simple exercises we could work on until we get a coach?

__________________
Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Basic Stroking.... forwards, backwards, etc. Crossovers (F & B) in big circle, concentrating on getting unison in the stroking.

When doing the crossovers/progressives, remember that the trailing skater shouldn't be feeling like the end of the whip in a game of "crack the whip".

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

Lots and lots and lots of stroking exercises!!!
You need to feel the rhythm and synchronicity of this basic skating with your partner. It is the foundation for almost everything else.

You can work on pair spirals, which will help develop your posture and line and awareness of your partner.

And you can work on simple things like side-by-side jumps.
In fact, playing around with this was what helped Loops and me forge our partnership--we always had this cosmic oneness in our jumps. Even if we don't skate together for a month, this never goes away. But we had worked on that evertime we skated together, so that now, we take it for granted.

I DON'T recommend trying lifts or crazy pair spins without a coach. Several members here can tell you some horror stories!

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

Okay, I might do too much freestyle stuff without a coach, but even I'm not that stupid!!

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

What is that, anyways? All I know about it is that there's a sign at one of the rinks that says it's not allowed...

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Good luck on your new skating venture. Pairs rocks, so I hope it works out for you. To elaborate on the previous responses:

- Stroking: There are all different variations here, but the most common are the four directions of crossovers where you're connected. You're always facing her, so if going backwards you're leading the way (and checking over your shoulder), and if going forwards she is leading the way. You can also do crossovers in unison disconnected, as I'm sure you've seen for setting up side-by-side jumps. As for the whip thing - an easy mistake is for the leading person to pull the trailing person off the circle, which feels like being at the end of a whip. This technique was used on purpose in roller derby to catapult the scoring skater ahead. Not so good in pairs.

When connected, it is very important to not turn her arm inwards, which will cause her shoulder line to break and then she'll struggle to stay on your line. Keep your palm open to the ceiling and find a comfortable spot where your shoulder lines are aligned. Lastly, she should always be slightly inside your circle. This may vary based on your size differential, but it helps avoid the whip thing.

There are also exercises where you do some crossoves, then do mohawks or 3 turns together, then reconnect for a couple more crossovers. You'll probably need to be shown this, but it is certainly something you can work on safely w/out a coach.

Side-by-side jumps: Do you both go in the same direction? Talk to one another about your favorite setups, then work on doing them together, either out of shadow (disconnected) skating, or the connected crossovers, where you have a break shortly before the jump. However you set it up, the key is to have a "present" to one another just before the mohawk or 3 turn that will lead into the jump. This is where you lock into each others timing (and hopefully someday the cosmic thing that Stephen described.) Then it is just a matter of having the same basic technique to actually do the jump. Take turns watching each other do solo jumps. Do you both wait about the same time after the 3 turn? Do you have similar height and speed? If not, talk about adjustments that could be made.

Side-by-side spins: Just give each other plenty of room, then same as above, take turns checking each other out. On these someone should be calling it, so counting the revs and then calling "out". But don't worry about timing them for a while. That's really hard. Concentrate on stepping into it together at first.

Footwork: You can learn each other's footwork sequences, then practice doing them side by side. Very safe, just give room.

Lifts: There is a lot you can do off the ice, which is something you'll do even when you get on-ice lifts. Your coach will also be very helpful with this, but you can get started on your own. Just stretch, don't go for too much - basic common sense. These are hard to describe, but some good starting lifts are the loop and the stag. For the loop, you'll but your hands on the small of her back and she'll grab your wrists. She needs to arch her back on the way up. Go down in your knees together (someone count it out) and then lift her so that her hips are at your shoulders. Keep your elbows in and keep her close. Turn your head so the side of your face is against her back. When you're ready, you can put this same lift overhead. Her legs should be in an open loop jump position. For the stag, she extends her left leg back like a back spiral but she keeps her torso upright (assuming you are CCW skaters), you put your right hand around her waist (from behind) and grab her on the left side of her lower abdomen, then with your left hand you lift her by her left thigh just above the knee.

Once you get these, practice making the turns. These dry land exercises need to be done for quite a while before you go to the ice. And don't even think about overheads for a while. If I read it right, you can lift about 60 lbs overhead and she's in the 130s? How much do you weigh? Overheads may not be in your future. It would probably take a guy of about 200 lbs to lift a lady overhead at that weight. Keep in mind, even if you can do it on dry land, doing it on ice is another thing. You'll want to be able to lift your partner plus 30 pounds on the ground before you'd do the same lift on the ice. I can put my partner in a platter on the ground w/ very little effort, but we're just starting to get it on the ice. And I'm not willing to do the steps yet.

Yes, you do have your work cut out for you in the gym. Let me know if you have any questions about weight training for all this. The nice thing about working out with a partner is that you can skip "shoulder day" once you get the overhead off ice lifts. It's a great workout.

Again, good luck to you! Have fun.

Tim

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People dream of flying, birds dream of skating.

I was wondering why you said you were spending tons of time at the gym. You seem like a guy who has a reason for doing things.

Start working on just skating together in various couple positions: Kilian, Tango, Shoulder Hold, etc. I think I remember your posting about buying a rulebook. If it was the ISI rulebook, take a look at the Couple and Dance tests. The lower-level tests are things that you could just practice together.

Good luck!

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Crack the whip - I believe its when a "train" or line of people pull each other around the ice and the skater on the end gets "whipped" off the end - can be super dangerous...I'm not explaining it well, but I notice a lot of younger kids on publics enjoy doing this and don't understand why it isn't allowed.

Hi Casey

I'm so glad you got a partner, I agree with all that has been said, also remember that your partner needs to be strong too, especially in the arms and wrists for future under-arm and press lifts etc. Wrist bands are a good idea in the early days, as they take a LOT of strain (speaking from experience here).

Let us know how you get on, I'm so excited for you.

Cheers
Grace

Yes.

Oh, we've done plenty of that without even thinking about pairs. Her jumps are slower and smaller, but her spins are much better - it's a tradeoff. Of course she has better form in everything, that's just an unfair advantage.

I'm 155lbs currently. 60 pounds overhead means 60 pounds of free weight comfortably managed - if I am strictly lifting and it's i.e. one of the pieces of gym equipment where the weight is held inplace so it can only move up and down, I can lift a bit more. I definitely have a lot of work to do, but I figure we have plenty of other things to work on in the interim, and if I can never do an overhead lift, well that's okay too.

Well, any advice is welcome. I've been getting a pretty good all-around workout in, with an emphasis on core strength. But am now shifting that emphasis to arm strength... I've only been going to the gym for a month (2-4 days a week for several hours each), so I'm still pretty much a newbie in that department. I feel like I usually get a pretty good workout in though...

Thanks for all the advice! Lots to think about!

__________________
Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

I'm probably going to get in trouble for posting these...but I can't resist!

[ waltz jump | toeloop | salchow | loop ] - [ spin | backspin ]

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Casey, didn't you have a wrist injury? It might not be a bad idea to have a doctor look at it to ensure it's still strong; would be bad to reinjure an injury that didn't heal properly.

There is probably a trainer available at your gym who can help you design a specific plan for your goals. Explain to him/her the eventual goal (to show the muscles used), and he or she can help you with a plan that will help not just with the lift, but with all the little muscles used in stabilizing the lift. (There's a reason competitive women pairs skaters weigh 90 pounds.)

Good deal on the same direction thing. Trust me, it's a challenge you don't need. It opens up some interesting opportunities, but when first starting it really makes things tougher.

Re: not getting overheads -- It surely is OK, don't get me wrong. With my first partner we had about the same weight differential as you guys do (15-20 lbs), but we could manage pretty decent low lifts. A lot of it is in technique, so once you learn the proper holds and get the timing right, it makes a big difference. She'll learn how to help you by jumping into it and supporting herself properly. That's the advantage - it isn't dead weight, like in the gym. But you do need to use more stabilizer muscles, and there's more to think about in terms of safety.

2-4 days per week is good, but I think that anything over an hour is too much. You may be overtraining, which will just inhibit muscle growth. If you just started then you may be doing a circuit (small amounts of exercise on all body parts), which is fine at first. But after a few weeks of that you should be ready to start doing splits by body part. For example, on Monday do chest and back, Wednesday do biceps and triceps, on Friday do shoulders and traps, Sat or Sun do legs. You should also pick 2 days per week to do abs. The rest of the body parts are good for once a week, but you'll be focusing on them longer and harder in each workout. I usually do three different exercises for 3 sets each for each muscle area. So on chest/back day, I'm doing 6 exercises for 3 sets (6-10 reps).

Pick up any issue of Men's Health (or similar type magazine) or just look online to find a program. For skating lifts, you'll need to focus on shoulders and back the most. Arms are important, too, but you use them less in the lifts than you'd think. Actually, the most stress on my arm muscles is the death spiral, which you won't be doing for a little while.

For shoulders the best exercises are the military press, shoulder flyes, rear delt pull backs, and front raises. There is usually a military press machine in most gyms, but the rest of it is best done with free weights or cables.

For back, you'll want to do lat pulls (usually a machine for this), lat pull downs (machine) and pull ups. There are others, but these are the basics.

You may also want to look into some supplements, especially protien shakes, so your hard work in the gym isn't for nothing.

Good luck.

Tim

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People dream of flying, birds dream of skating.

2 of them, in fact. But both have been all better for months. I got lucky.

Well, I started going to the gym because I mostly quit skating, it wasn't until was hanging out with my skating friend, at a bar of all places, idly watching the Olympics, that the prospect of pair skating came up.

Hmm, I'll start thinking about that. I have indeed been doing circuits.

Thanks, I'll keep these in mind and try to work up some good routines.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

I can give you some advice on working out...try and do it the days you are not skating. I used to work out 5 days a week and i kept getting muscle cramps at practice. make sure you are giving the muscle time to rest, and drink protein powders...they work. get a tub of the protein shake mix at the gym and have one for breakfast every morning, and an extra in the evening if you worked out that day.

these are all tips my personal trainer gave me.

Your skating partner should probably do some light lifting, too; it will help your lifts and form if she is strong, too.

Hi ,


I'm 2salcows other half...i agree with him that off ice in the gym training is important. we both do outr share. he lifts in the gym, but i have to say that he has packed on size just lifting me. he is right about that. as for the lady, well i was lucky that i have good upper body strength , but one of the things i noticed during the time i had the knee surgery was that i lost strength in the death spiral position. i use the cable cross pull at he gym, but I pull only with one arm in a diagonal direction from the an outstretched position to my opposite hip and then return slowly to the start position. other than that i do some triceps and biceps for general body strength in press lift. star and platter are more lower back and leg stuff. oh and once we got our lifts over the head , then on the ground i always wear ankle weights to imitate the weight of the skate. i find he can best find a consistent center that was and it is the same on and off the ice.


i do stairmaster or glider a few times a week to keep the weight down. but 2salcow is not too much taller than me and about 150...granted i am 5'1 and small but he had no problem getting me up in the air.

good luck and let us know if you have any more questions

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Q:If landing an axle is 3 times your body weight, then how many times your body weight is the landing of a throw axle
A: depends on whos throwing you and how much you lied about your weight on your pairs profile


a can of stickum : $5.95
the email asking "how do you get this sticky stuff off " ...priceless

those are great ideas...now what lift were we doing again?

hey Tim...i finally figured out how to get the sticky stuff off!

Missing: east coast stunt doubles poster

As of this morning's weigh in I'm down to 144! Yikes! I had been pretty stable at 150, but for me it is such a struggle keeping the weight on. I feel like I was cursed by a gypsy out of a Stephen King novel. Maybe that 3 hour session yesterday burned it all off. I guess it's time to go force feed myself a protien shake. (I'm sure I'll be getting a ton of sympathy for this "problem".)

The important thing is that we have about 40 pounds separation between us, which is about where you need to be to get the harder lifts. And even still, I'd like to get back into the 150s to really feel confident about it.

What do you think the spread is at the top level? 70-80 pounds on average?

Tim

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
People dream of flying, birds dream of skating.

hmm depends on what country they represent...i'd say the chinese teams....well what do you figure those girls weigh..my god at least 65 or 70 lbs... hmm sorry 2salcow..not a chance (lol..i will bust out the extra set of ankle and wrist weights for off ice training next practice!!!)

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Q:If landing an axle is 3 times your body weight, then how many times your body weight is the landing of a throw axle
A: depends on whos throwing you and how much you lied about your weight on your pairs profile


a can of stickum : $5.95
the email asking "how do you get this sticky stuff off " ...priceless

those are great ideas...now what lift were we doing again?

hey Tim...i finally figured out how to get the sticky stuff off!

Missing: east coast stunt doubles poster

Most girls skaters that are teens and over weigh at least 100 and more. I know some lie about there weight too.

All this talk has motivated me to hit the weights at the gym. Even though hubby doesn't want to do any more than ice dance, there are some interesting positions you could get into during OD that require the strength of both.

My boss (who is a huge hulking guy ) works out with kettlebells and I think I'm going to use them over the summer (the light ones-he lifts the 88 pound ones ).

Wouldn't hurt!

I'm trying to "trade" 10 pounds of fat for 10 of muscle!!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I'll make you a deal: Since you lost 6 pounds, I'll gladly donate 6 pounds of my weight to your cause. It is usually hard for me to part with anything, but I think I can make an exception for you. IN fact, if you want even more, I might be considering to go up to about 15 pounds.

It's OK Sue, if it's hard for you to part with it, I'll save you the effort.

TAKE MINE!! TAKE MINE!! All 20 pounds. Throw away what you don't need - I *don't* want it back! Hey, I'll even express it to you.

Hey! I offered first! I said, things are usually hard for me to part with, If he needs the weight, he can take it from both of us, and then make the weight difference between him and his partner rival those of the elite skaters.

ok ladies ...i have an evening better idea... as the chic he throws around , I i should give him 5 lbs since that would be 5 less on my end 5 more on his end...ok and if you insist in donating as well i can prepare a tax deduction form! your post really made me laugh at the end of a tough work day...thanks !!!

__________________
Q:If landing an axle is 3 times your body weight, then how many times your body weight is the landing of a throw axle
A: depends on whos throwing you and how much you lied about your weight on your pairs profile


a can of stickum : $5.95
the email asking "how do you get this sticky stuff off " ...priceless

those are great ideas...now what lift were we doing again?

hey Tim...i finally figured out how to get the sticky stuff off!

Missing: east coast stunt doubles poster