Never mind very costly with coach's fees and testing fees and all that. Phew!!!

Yeah, I'm with you! I usually would want to wait a few months to do the test again....and I probably would want to ask for a critique before I go out to be sure, as I did with my 3rd try at Bronze Moves. Made all the difference and it did give me the confidence to go out there and do it.

Well, I do know this particular person had test confidence issues. For some people, doing more tests usually helps with the confidence (or at least build up the resistance to being nervous.) I still think that for Terri though she needs to internally resolve her issues with her previous bad test sessions. Maybe if she goes to more test sessions where there's more adults testing (not necessarily to test... just to watch...), she might see that not all test sessions are as bad as she's gone thru and might help her eventually with her confidence. (I know I did that a few times, mainly to cheer a friend on but to also watch how test sessions are run. It really does help me to get some sense on what to work on so I can focus on that.)

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

The twins will probably be taking Pre-Prel in Feb, so I think I'm going to take Pre-Bronze MITF and Prel MITF at the same time. I want to be at least one Moves test ahead of my freestyle tests, so I don't have to worry about contingency testing.

I had a thought yesterday about getting pre-test evaluations. I wonder if YouTube or another video sharing service could be used in lieu of having the skater and judge/evaluator go to the rink? The skater could have someone record his/her test runthrough, later upload it to a video service, then ask the judges to evaluate it and provide feedback/critique. That could be done by phone, Skype, email or "comments." Obviously, it would have to be pre-arranged and kept "private" so no trolls get in and start messing around.

Actually the Ice Network could probably pull something like this off - their video and editing has been pretty good.

Don't get me wrong - I do NOT mean to take the actual test. Just an informal pre-test evaluation that has no bearing whatsoever on the actual test results.

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Speaking of tests, I saw a list of things to watch out for on certain tests somewhere when my daughter was taking prelim for the second time, and that was extremely helpful for her. Do you know of any such thing for the adult tests? Its not just the emphasis factors that are in the rulebook, but something for judges??

thanks

Yes, that's in our Reference thread: http://www.skatingforums.com/showthr...nks#post291300

For adult skating, the USFSA even has video examples online.

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thanks! do you know if that has been updated to include the forward 3 turn pattern now on the Adult pre-B test?

Yes, they were thorough in effecting that change. That pattern is in the videos and on the judging forms.

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Good idea in conception, but here's something... the judges sometimes like to hear the growl of the edges and stuff and you don't necessarily get that on video, especially if you're in some sort of a crowded FS session with music playing in the background. (Likely the case for me.)

You would have to find a judge willing to do something like that. Wouldn't be a bad idea for Terri... IF she could get someone to videotape her too and I know she doesn't have a video cam... (Yes, we all want to see how you skate, Terri! I've never seen you skate before!!!)

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

The rip would be an obstacle,esp. on power pulls and such. But, to provide feedback like "foot needs to be higher on spirals" and "toe loop is prerotating" it would suffice.

What does this phrase mean?It's on the test registration form.

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Double paneling refers to two tests going out at the same time. For exdample, on Prelim, they may have two skaters following each other or starting on opposite ends for the full-rink moves, and put them on two different lines for the line moves. In Pre-Pre, they can usually do three tests at one time, spreading out the lines used for edges and waltz-3, and having them follow each other on the stroking. It's common to see Pre-Pre through Pre-Juv double paneled.


As to confidence on tests, I failed Pre-Juv MITF twice, Juv MITF 3 times (ages 21-23). At the end, I was taking it every 28 days to get over my nerves on testing. The more I did the moves that I was scared of (like the back power 3s on Juv that I had stepped down on more than once), the more comfortable I was until finally I passed. It doesn't work for everyone, but we have tests every month here so it worked out for me. I wouldn't have passed Juv if I hadn't gotten right back onto a second test session after I failed.

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"Without a struggle, there can be no progress" ~ Frederick Douglass

Well, I've come to a decision. I'm not going to try for Gold again before the AN deadline, so I'll be skating Silver II this year. With having awful choices of clubs to test at, and not being able to practice for over a week before the test just wouldn't leave me confident going into it. I'll really work on the program and test again after AN, and skate Gold at local comps around here. Now I need ANOTHER new Silver program made up, PDQ!

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

Well, at least you know you won't come in last if you skate Silver II at Sectionals! You know that's my spot!
I hope you do decide to test again soon, I know you could pass that test and rock Gold!

My club has up to 6 Pre-Prelims going on at one time (and most test sessions we have 2 or 3 groups of Pre-Prelim tests), and we single-panel the Pre-Prelims. Basically the club chair calls the skaters over and tells them who "their" judge is, then has them line up at the end of the rink. Then they do their perimeter stroking (she gives a "go" or "start now" to ensure the skaters have sufficient space between each one). Then they line up and do the perimeter stroking in the other direction. Then she has them line up on the line at the end of the rink, spread out a bit and they do the straight line spirals. Then she sends each skater to "their judge" and the judge conducts the rest of the test. Sometimes there's a space conflict, but usually when the tester starts heading for "their spot" (usually the spot on the ice where their coach has had them practice the element) and someone else is there, the judge will have the skater stop and wait.

My club also double-panels the rest of the MIF tests. For Juv and below, the test chair will run both skaters at the same time (with 2 panels of 3 judges each). For Intermediate, she will have both skaters at the same time for all elements except the slide chasse sequence. For Novice, she will have both going at same time except for the spirals. For Junior/Senior, she will have the skaters alternate skating each element (but still 2 panels of judges).

FWIW, my club administered the most tests in USFS last year (combination dance and MIF/FS) and in many other recent years has either had the most or been one of the top 2 or 3 testing clubs.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

WOW!!! That's amazing. We have double or triple-paneled Pre-Pres and occassionally Prelim tests. But I've NEVER seen the higher level tests double-paneled. Your skaters must not only be good at the moves they have to do, but also at watching out for other skaters during their tests. VERY impressive!

Our MIF/FS test chair is a master at test scheduling. For our Prelim and higher tests that are double paneled, each skater starts at the opposite end of the rink. The test chair announces which skater is at which end ("Jane is at the scoreboard end, Susan is at the warming room end" for example) to make sure that the judges know which skater they're judging (the test schedule also indicates which end each skater will start at, but sometimes kids get confused, or there's the last minute scratch, and our club is large enough that it's almost impossible for the judges to know every skater). Our test chair also announces each element on the MIF tests other than on the last part of the Pre-Pre's. This helps avoid some issues.

During actual execution, the skaters do have to watch out for each other. Normally we don't have avoidance issues, but occasionally one skater will do a move a bit larger than the other skater or start in a slightly different location and there will be "dodging issues". (Juv Back Power 3's is a prime example.)

And even with all this, we still run 7-8 hour MIF/FS test sessions almost every month. (FWIW, from an opportunity perspective, great club to trial judge at, because there's almost always a few high level tests... about the only thing we don't get a lot of is pair tests, and those are always hard for trial judges to find.)

Alternating the moves on the higher tests is useful for both of the testers as well as the judges I think. Gives the skaters a chance to re-focus on the next element, and gives each panel a bit more time to write comments without delaying things overly much.

I think because the skaters who regularly test with our club come up through the test structure having the double paneling, they are used to it.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

I hope you don't mind my asking -- and you don't have to answer if you're not comfortable doing so -- but what region/state are you in? Valuable to know about the higher-level tests. And once again, very cool that your club does this.

Our club has 3-4 hour test sessions every month.. but I can't even imagine a 7 hour test session with double-paneled tests. Obviously your club's test chair is VERY organized and all your skaters are very disciplined to be able to do that. (I'll bet it could be confusing though for skaters who test out of club at your sessions! But that's good for them too... in case they go to big competitions where there are lots of skaters they don't know.. they can get used to the idea at your tests.)

Washington Figure Skating Club, Washington DC area.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

One of our rinks coaches did her Gold moves (? Maybe a standard track test?) double paneled. She said she almost lapped the skater who she tested with. That must have been nerve wracking figuring out how to keep your pattern so that you didn't accidentally hit! The other skater did not pass, she thought she would have had a better chance if she hadn't been on the ice with her- but another coach from my rink said that was being generous and it just wasn't a passing test. I didn't get to see this one.

I saw a group of 5 pre-pre skaters test- there were SO many near collisions I vowed not to test moves at that club! They didn't wait for each skater to finish a move before starting the next one. So 3 were still doing perimeter stroking, while 2 started consecutive edges. Then some were doing waltz 8s while others did spirals. It was the most nerve wracking thing I've ever seen. And my test nerves don't need that stress! (And my test nerves are so huge that sitting here TYPING about tests my hands are shaking and my heart is pounding. This is ridiculous!)

At a different club my PB was double paneled and they were SO accommodating. We did stroking from opposite sides. Then they asked if we neeeded to use a certain line or circle for the consecutive edges, crossovers, and waltz eight. They said if we both needed the same circle we could WAIT for it- so that we were most comfortable! We used seperate areas, because either of us could go from either side. I did follow on the 3 turn patterns, because while I was comfortable starting from either side, I think my coach could tell I was freaking out- and asked me to ask the judge if I could start from my "usual" place.

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

Heck, we double panel at every club here in IL all the time all the way to Novice, similar to Jenlyon's club. Junior and Senior are skated single paneled. FWIW, we had a test session at our club last week with 2 Seniors, 4 Juniors, 10 Novice, and 8 Intermediates, a test session yesterday with another club with 1 Senior, 2 Juniors, 5 Novice, and 3 Intermediates, AND another session today with a THIRD club with at least 1 Senior and Junior and several Novice and Intermediate tests going out.

I got lucky when I passed my Intermediate in that I was the "odd one out" and ended up single paneled. There were 7 tests and I got to be the only single panel test which kept me from getting worried about passing the other skater!

My club had a VERY crowded test session last year (9 hours, 91 tests total ) - the test session was held jointly with another club - and Pre-Juv MIF and most of the dances were double-paneled in the way Jenlyon described (starting at opposite ends). This was new to most, if not all, of the skaters b/c tests at clubs in our area are usually not done this way (except with Pre-Prelim when there are 2 or 3), but everyone seemed to handle it well and there were no near-collisions. Pre-Prelim and Prelim MIF had multiple skaters out on the ice (3 and 4 in the Prelim groups, 4 and 5 in Pre-Prelim, each judged by a single judge) and they did staggered starts. Some of the Prelim skaters got a little close to each other on the spirals, and I noticed that during the Pre-Prelim tests, the first kid down a line on the consecutive edges would stop right at the end and didn't move out of the way for the next kid, so the second kid was often aborting the last edge lobe halfway through, but neither the kids nor the judges seemed bothered by it. For the Prelim crossover figure 8's and Pre-Prelim waltz 8, the kids were divided up and went to opposite ends for their circles, and they took turns (second kid waited for first kid to be done). One Prelim skater did her crossovers in the center, but there weren't any problems with that.

I've seen Wash FSC test sessions and everything seems to run very well - as Jenlyon said, the kids and judges are all used to it. But for someone not used to it, it can be kind of freaky, esp with the Juv and Int moves that usually are in the center (8-step, back power 3's, power circles), b/c the skaters have to use 'virtual' circles at each end. That can be confusing to out-of-club skaters who are used to practicing it the regular way.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

I know I would be freaked out to test my Intermediate moves double paneled! Partly because I skate pretty fast and I would be worried about making sure I don't get in the other persons way...and partly because of my lack of experience with double paneled tests...every test (minus pre-pre) that I ever took was single paneled...

My coach had my training partner and I practice the Intermediate double paneled TOGETHER. It actually did help.

That was actually the one that came to mind when I was imagining potential issues on a double-paneled Intermediate MIF test, LOL! I'm trying to remember how they handled it when I had to do that move on my double paneled Silver MIF test (that was just before it got moved to the Gold test, so I've now had it on 3 different tests!).

I suppose it would also throw a fly in the ointment if one skater wiped out on the power circles and the other one was half a circle behind her. . .

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Two of my attempts at Novice were with double panels I almost caught the skater in front of me on the counters, luckily we did the sprials solo.

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Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

I haven't had to double panel anything except PrePre. I can't remember if the moves were - I tested them in 1994! - but I distinctly remember for the free, the judge gathered all the skaters, 4 or 5 of us, and then had us do each element one at a time.

I'd be a wreck if I had to double panel moves. Not only do you have to worry about running into someone, but then you can't take the time you want in between each move to rest, have a drink of water, blow your nose, talk to your coach. The first time I tested Intermediate moves, the head judge cut our warmup in half, so I only got to warm up the power circles, double 3s and power 3s before I had to get off the ice (I failed).

What's the motivation behind double paneling anyways? Expensive/limited ice? Limited judging time? Are the test fees not covering the ice cost? Are the clubs trying to profit from test sessions?

Mainly expensive/limited ice, I would think. The last two would relate to that issue.

Limited judging time is less the issue, because more judges are needed. But fewer judges would have an awfully long day if they had to do double the number of tests sequentially. At Washington FSC, there's no way all the moves tests could be done in one day without doubling. In which case more test sessions would be needed.