put me down in the I hate toe loops group! Similar to several on here, I experienced my worst fall from attempting one and since have had issue with confidence. I typically fold my shoulder in or something like that which causes me to fall right on to my right hip. My coach is making me do them in every lesson because she said I could not have a jump that I avoid at all costs. This week I have not fallen once on them. But still have a whimpy pick into the ice reflective of my feelings! Hard to imagine I will ever really like them. Thought that about the waltz jump though and I eventually made friends with it.

Dallas, just keep telling yourself how much you love them and eventually it will be true!!

Dallas, I know what you mean. I have been tortured over my toeloop takeoff for months now, LOL! We worked on it some more on the harness yesterday and my double toe started behaving once I remembered two things: To keep my head and shoulders completely still on the 3-turn (just as though I were in a neck brace) and to "jump from down, don't jump from up". In other words, stay down on a bent knee as you exit the 3-turn so that your pick goes into the ice while your skating knee is still deeply bent and then you help push yourself up with your toe. Don't straighten up and then pick.

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Funny, it came (actually is *in the process* of coming) pretty easilly for me. I was doing mazurkas and ballet jumps, and by accident did a toe-waltz (which at the time I thought was a toe-loop). I think i've gotten better about not pre-rotating, but it's still a mess, since I haven't been coached on it yet. Hopefully my coach and I can go over it tomorrow.

It'll be my first full jump. I can't even begin to do a sal yet.

Tell me about it! Well, my toe loop isn't too bad but I'm having a nightmare with flip!

S xxx

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as much as i HATE toepick jumps....i have 3 of them in my program! a ballet jump, a 1/2 lutz and a 1/2 toe-walley!!!!!

Of those, I like the ballet and the 1/2 walley, and the 1/2 lutz is just plain WEIRD!!!!!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

The toeloop is actually not that hard.
The double toe is like an axel with a toepick before.
You just have to make sure your hips is correctly placed below the shoulders and to go past the toepick-foot.
After you've done that it's just an axel

From what I've heard, an axel type jump with a toe takeoff might not be considered a true double toe loop. If you've prerotated more than 1/4 revolution before taking off (such as if one were facing forward as if for an axel takeoff), the double toe would be considered underrotated and, in an event judged under the new judging system, would be penalized.

Did you instead mean that getting the feel of rotating more than once around is similar in the double toe as compared with the axel?

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Hmmm... You know the very first time I got my toeloop was when the rink started playing that stupid song "Froooom Paris to Berlin and every disco I get in , my heart is pumpin' for love, pumpin' for love..."

Basically I just did a sharp 3-turn on the approach, banged my foot as hard as I could into the ice and jumped up as hard as I could and I automatically landed it... Just like completely without giving yourself any time to think about it.

But that's just for the single, I can't do a double although I did a 1,5 one by accident once when I pulled in my arms too hard.

I will never forget, when my daughter was like 10 and still in basic skills, trying to figure out how to do a toe loop (she's 16 now and I still don't do a toe loop, but I'm going to tack it on to my waltz jump one of these days)...and she says ..."is this what you are trying to do?" and does it. And to add insult to injury, she could never remember which foot to do it on so she used to do it on both feet.

I mean, I just had no idea of how to do the jump, I couldn't even do a toe waltz...then one day my coach had me do a half flip, side toe hop, waltz jump, that I fumbled up..and she looks at me strangely - and says "Did I tell you to do a toe loop? Because that's what you just did." and that's how I got the concept of at least a toe waltz...

j

LOL! Yeah I can do the toeloop clockwise too, one of the few jumps I can do clockwise. I'd not suggest taking a habit of actually practicing it from a waltz though, it's more difficult to do the jump in combination.

When we started practicing toeloops in class, we'd verrrrrry slowly, from a right back outside edge (a very slow right back outside edge, almost standstill, and no 3-turn first) pick in the left foot keeping the leg "short" (that is, sort of pulling in/up the hip and not trying to reach "as far backwards as I can") and then putting the toe in the ice, rotating on the toepick on the ice, and then stepping out of that. No jumping at all, and of course when you rotate on the toepick, your leg is stretched.

It's VERY helpful. And you're not actually jumping there so it's not more scary than a spin! Though take care that on a spin, you don't get on your toepick and here you DO.
I practiced it this way after I sprained my anckle and when I got back to jumping, my toeloop was more secure than before the sprained ankcle (even though the other jumps were less secure).