Sorry, not sure how to phrase it better, but will keep out comments.

Have pretty much decided to skate on youtube anyways.....Have very pretty dress. Will take moderator's advice and skate for fun. Will post video every year around AN time with my own routine and leave it at that. (Unless I get an open event which is unlikely....)

Can maybe do routine at exhibitions. No test levels there...

I was uncomfortable doing mohawks until my coach pointed out, the problem wasn't with my lack of turnout it was the improper position of my arms! She fixed that and they are getting better (as long as I remember to put my arms in the right place LOL).

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I think if you slowed down and paid attention to the exact foot placement of an inside to inside mohawk the turn is only about 90 degrees. It would seem that turnout shouldn't REALLY affect the beginning mohawks (except in extreme cases like the OPs).

I never really had a problem with the 8-step mohawk and I have poor turnout because of my hip problems. I think I was able to get it so easily by "feeling" the circle behind me and just feeling where I needed to adjust my body weight. FWIW, the PSA MIF Manual expects open, not closed mohawks for that pattern.

It the difference between and open and closed choctaw the same as for a mohawk? Well, first, let me ask, am I getting the general description of a close mohawk correctly? Instead of stepping with the free foot in front with it's heel the instep of the skating foot, the free foot hits the ice more or less behind the the skating foot, with its instep at the current skating foots heel. For a LFO to RBO, would the LFO then stroke off to extend in front of the body? Sorry if I'm totally misunderstanding, I'm just trying to connect it to a step I see one skater do regularly in a dance (not a clue what dance, although I guess it might be the foxtrot since that's what keeps coming up).

So would the difference for an open or closed choctaw be the same? Basically does the foot come down in front of the skating foot or behind? I'm PRETTY sure I'm grasping this, but I want to make sure since Novice requires closed choctaws on the slow rocker/choctaw pattern (which I'm pretty sure I'm doing because of the "stroke" I'm getting as I change feet and the skating foot becomes the free foot) while the quick rocker/choctaw allows either open OR closed.

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I should try a little ballet one of these days just to see. I have the opposite mohawk to you as the easy one, and I'd agree that it's mostly technique. I have lots and lots of turnout (a plie is no problem), which is a little unusual in a male of my age...and the hard side mohawks are still a pain.

Hi there,
I love your attitude!! - I'm a beginner, meaning I'm still learning to skate backwards BUT my flexability
is such that I find the 180-degree turn-out easy! so
I can't wait to skate OSEagles; & advance towards other goals too. I'm with you: 'Be hopeful and positive!! '

Attitude makes all the difference! I had a negative attitude about backspins for a while, but last weekend, I decided to be positive and upbeat, attempting to not be as nervous about it and voila!!! I got my back spin. Its amazing how that can effect your skating.

I just love to skate!

Foxtrot Mohawk is okay - even I can fudge one, and I'm as closed-hipped as they make them. The secret is to use your edges to bring your foot to the right place, rather like when doing back crossrolls - if you can do a back crossroll, you can do a Foxtrot Mohawk.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Yes, I can do back cross rolls. So, what's a Foxtrot Mohawk then? I've only started ice dancing to enhance my freestyle.

The mohawk is in the Rocker Foxtrot- a silver dance. (So I should get to it by the time I'm 60, and you'll probably be to it next month...)

It looks like the mohawk is step 11/12.

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

I was having the weight transfer between the two feet described this morning as a schafer push. Apparently this means something to those who've done figures, but is meaningless to me. Has something to do with getting a nice push forward when you switch feet. All well and good, but I've got one leg which currently leaves the ice sideways because it follows the direction of the toes and not the direction of the body!
If anyone can enlighten me about this I'd be delighted. But I don't think doing this mohawk has anything to do with getting good turnout as you only need 90degrees between feet to do this one like the inside closed one.

I would really like a detailed explanation on the schafer push, I got to see Edward demo it at Hackensack in the figures class (which was awfully great) but no one I skate with does it...

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

It was something to do with pushing off the opposite edge to normal. I could struggle to demo it one way, but no chance of a written explanation.

I do know that's it's the push used to do start figure loops (I think BO mainly) but that's the extent of my knowledge. Perhaps if there's anyone you skate with who had to learn figures might be able to demonstrate it (ie the older coaches)?

Hopefully there's someone out there who can explain it before I have to open the antique skating books for an explanation. Otherwise I'm waiting until my next lesson and quizzing the coach a bit more.

Schaefer (sp?) push:

1. Stand w/ your feet in a T position, as if you were just going to stroke forward.

2. Tilt the foot in front to an *outside* edge

3. Major plie'

4. pressing on that outside edge, push off that foot so that you are now gliding backwards on the back foot, preferably on an outside edge.

This feels weird for several reasons--partly because, as someone said, you're using the outside edge to push & you're used to using the inside.

But even more than that (and here's where I find it confuses people), You aren't pushing yourself straight backwards--it's more like you'll move sideways to your original position. Think about your feet placement in the T: that back foot is facing "sideways" (toes/heel aligned w/ your shoulders)--so therefore when that blade starts to travel backwards it will carry you in that direction to start with.

That's the best I can write it out; if no one else manages it, I'll try to do a video next week when I'm back from Thanksgiving.

It's an outside to outside Mohawk where you put your free foot down such that the instep is at the heel of your skating foot (can't remember which one is open and which closed!), rather like doing a back cross-roll, except you change direction. In an ideal world, you don't step on the back of your blade while doing this. The then free leg is extended forwards.

Also in the Bronze Foxtrot (Keats Foxtrot, in some areas), which is where you first learn it. The one in the Rocker is far harder, as your partner is also doing it, so can't hold you up while you do it like he can in the Bronze Foxtrot!

If you see any skaters doing back progressive runs (as opposed to back crossovers), that is a Schaffer push. Normally, when you skate backwards, you push off a BI edge; in a Schaffer push, you push off a BO edge. It feels awkward until you are used to it, then you don't realise you're doing it!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

To help you visualize the mohawks (this is how my dance coach explained them to me when I was 7 or 8): both of them make a T. In an open mohawk, the top of the T is the skating foot. In the closed mohawk, the top of the T is the free foot (the foot you will step on to). Does that help? Also, if you teach small kids their beginning mohawks, you're teaching them open mohawks, not closed.

The difference for choctaws is much more obvious than for mohawks. Open choctaws are the kind taught on junior moves, where the free foot is in "front" (front being the direct of the edge). I think the first one that comes up on dance is the Killian, but the most obvious example is in the Rhumba, if you want to look on up (this is a double choctaw, since you turn forwards to backwards and then back to forwards). In closed choctaws, the free foot is behind the skating foot. You usually step toe/heel, but you can also step with a cross-behind, so that the free foot comes fully behind the skating foot or you can step instep to heel. If you want to see examples, it's on the Blues (near the end of the pattern), Tango Romantica (second end pattern, in each corner), and Yankee Polka (first end pattern). Does that help at all? I think the best way to tell the difference is by looking at them.

I think the foxtrot (pre silver/keats) is the harder foxtrot because of the positioning of the man, solo it is very easy, partnered it is akward. The rocker foxtrot mohawk is a little for fun and on a nice deep edge, if you don't think about it too much its not bad, neat feet are all you really need.

The schaffer push is hard to explain but that t-position pushing on the outside edge to a back edge that is usually curved.

Ibreakhearts 66, check the rule book on the novice pattern, there is a schaffer push contained with in the slow deeply lobed pattern, good extension, no skidding and building power are all part of the move. This was one of my favorites, but watch the arms if they go to high, you'll fall backward. I always preferred the whirling dervish inside 3 pattern, #1 on the novice. I hit the wall a lot!!

I of course have zero turn out, I just wait for the edges to finish and then go to the next edge.

I'm lazy that way.

Leslie

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Who me? Couldn't be....
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Thanks for the descriptions coskater and pineapple. That's what I imagined for each of the moves, but I wasn't certain.

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Speaking of turnout again - although I have an inside spread eagle that's improving by the day, I really would love an Ina Bauer. Is it my turnout that is preventing me from doing anything but circling around myself? I picture myself sailing in a straight line down the rink, and then I wake up ha ha! Are there any exercises that will help me to at least get a rudimentary one that I can improve?

Also - regarding the Schaffer push - my coach had me work on that as a precursor to the Adult Silver MITF back cross strokes. Tough but helpful.

And O/T - Adult Silver MITF are much harder IMHO than Bronze. Bronze never felt like a big jump from Pre-Bronze to me, but the power pulls and back cross strokes are kicking my butt bigtime. At least I'm getting the 8-step with no trouble, but I am not confident that I will pass this test any time soon. Argh!