Great photo!

Very good points Flo, I understand your example for what one would wear to a funeral, and as you say, a funeral does not compare to the ice rink. But wouldn't a man be able to wear a skirt to a funeral of the same type and style that a lady would wear? There is nothing that I know of that says a man cannot wear a kilt or a skirt to a funeral.

As for work, school, and what not, take a look at the dress code, it does not say that girls can wear pants and skirts and boys can wear pants. There is no discriminatory sex difference in the clothing guidlines anymore at schools, workplaces, buisnesses and what not.

Me take the responsibility to not make people uncomfortable? Um, hello? Thats an impossibility, there is no way I could make everyone comfortable, even if I wore pants, us humans just don't work that way. There are far more people comfortable with me no matter what I wear, then those who are not. You have the right to be uncomfortable with what I wear, thats your choice, but I'll tell you what, I'm probably the nicest person you've ever met, but you'll never know because you can't get past the clothing I wear.

I can do what I want as long as I do what you say, how silly.

Steven

__________________
"A sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
"A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson
"Got Edge?" - Steven J. Arness - Coachless, two years and counting.
"He who carves himself to suit others will soon whittle himself away."
"Sometimes you get what you want but loose what you have."

Its not about can or can't wear - its about respect!

__________________
~Sk8Bunny~
-----------------------------------------------
"I know you can be overwhelmed, and you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever just be whelmed?"

From Steven: "But wouldn't a man be able to wear a skirt to a funeral of the same type and style that a lady would wear?"
This is what I'm talking about as far as rules vs. responsibility (and we're not talking about a disability here, but a choice of clothing).
Can you - sure, should you - ? Just because we can do something, does not mean we should.
I would just prefer to be considerate not to make others uncomfortable, for example at a funeral, rather than prove a point that I "could" do something. That's all. As far as you being "the nicest person I've ever met", the nicest people I've met put other's feelings before their own. Yes, it may be difficult, but who knows. Since your other approaches have not been as successful as you like, it may be worth a shot. You may hear: "Wow, I know Steven prefers to wear a skirt, but today he's in a tunic, or pants. He's being considerate of the rest of the skater's feelings. " If you're open, perhaps others will follow suit and consider your feelings.

Respect, yes, but who is to say that he is not being respectable? If he attends the funeral of his longtime friend and family, all of which who know the clothing choices of this person. Does it really make a difference if he's wearing skirt or trousers as long as it is respectable?

Steven

__________________
"A sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
"A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson
"Got Edge?" - Steven J. Arness - Coachless, two years and counting.
"He who carves himself to suit others will soon whittle himself away."
"Sometimes you get what you want but loose what you have."

Read above for funeral answer.

I've been there, done that, as I've said, I've worn pants on club ice, that was my compromise and my respct to not push the limits.

And I have put others people feelings before my own, why else would I put myself through some of the torture I have just to please them? But I'm sorry Flo, I'm an individual, not just another sheep in the flock, I prefer to be myself, and not what others think I should be. I respect their views, and I have tolerance to their individuality, which is more so then I can say for others. Being what I am not is more torture then being who I am, I'm sorry if you and others cannot accept my form of individuality as easily as I accept yours.

How soon you forget the people before you that pushed for women to have equal rights. All this would be a moot point if it were not for them.

Steven

__________________
"A sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
"A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson
"Got Edge?" - Steven J. Arness - Coachless, two years and counting.
"He who carves himself to suit others will soon whittle himself away."
"Sometimes you get what you want but loose what you have."

from Steven: "I'm sorry if you and others cannot accept my form of individuality as easily as I accept yours."
Read again, I as others have stated that I would be willing to compromise for one of my club members. You just have to remember that the clubs are made up of a "flock" of individuals. With this I'm done - take it as you may.

Just a quick point that in the UK we have plenty of schools where the uniform is quite strictly skirts for girls and trousers (pants) for boys.


Steven you disappoint me - isn't it a bit too easy to take the moral high ground when you are the one who is being different and unusual? Of course if you are going to be different you have to accept all others, else it undermines your own argument. Clothing obviously doesn't matter to you the way it does to most people but most people feel that clothing is important so for example, we dress up for a job interview to show respect and that we are serious about the job and the company. We dress up to go to a party or out to dinner etc, if we belong to any sort of group we dress in the uniform if there is one and how we dress says a lot about us, (mine mostly says that I'm a lazy slob I'm sure! ), yours appears to say you are unconventional and non-conformist.

For you individuality and tolerance of individuality are of the highest virtue but there are other people for whom avoiding conflict, harmony and fitting in are more important and in many ways I would see these people as being the glue that holds society together. The feeling of discomfort when somebody expresses their individuality rather forcefully is a natural reaction to someone who is stretching the boundaries of society. If we all went haring off like little whizz-bangs in all directions without regard to social norms then society disintegrates. It's good to have some whizz-bangs of course - keeps things lively and interesting - it'd be a dull world otherwise.

__________________
'skating is not just a sport - it is an obsession'

Steven, tolerence is accepting and respecting peoples differing views, no matter if they are the same as yours. To me, it sounds like you are calling people who disagree agree with your view "silly" and what not. This is not respect or tolerence for their different point of views, it's saying your view is right and everyone else's is "silly". People also have the "right" to disagree with you, ask their kids not to associate with you, you are labelling them and that is disrespectful. Tolerence and respect is a two-way street.

It sounds like you think that some people are disrepectful and intolerent because they disagree with your view and your "right" to wear a dress, but you are being intolerent and disrespectful to their view too! Tolerence is all about compromise and finding a common ground and I feel that this is more important that pushing your "right" to wear a dress.

Yes Flo, I know, we just keep hashing and re-hashing this thing, I just keep hearing "but"

Oh my Batikat, I'm not sure what to say! (except that you might want to check with the EOC, they don't restrict skirts to girls only anymore)

Steven

All are lunatics, but he who can analyse his delusion is a philosopher. - H.L. Mencken

You must be the change you wish to see in the world. - Gandhi

Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go. - T. S. Eliot

Nothing endures but change. - Heraclitus

Every man is the architect of his own fortune. - Appius Claudius

Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, begin it. - Goethe

Always give your best; never get discouraged, never be petty; always remember others may hate you. But those who hate you don't win, unless you hate them. - Richard Nixon

It seems to me that the secret of true happiness in life is to know what you are and then be content to be that, in style, head up and proud, and not yearn to be something else. - Robert Anson Heinlein

The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out, the conservative adopts them. - Mark Twain

I cannot give you the formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure, which is: try to please everybody. - Herbert Bayard Swope

To be nobody-but-yourself -- in a world which is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else -- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight; and never stop fighting. - EE Cummings

"The reasonable man adjusts to the world around him. the unreasonable man expects the world to adjust to him. Therefore a progress is made by unreasonable men." -George Bernard Shaw

"The challenge is to be yourself in a world that is trying to make you like everyone else"

"You are not free if you are only free to be like everyone else."

__________________
"A sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
"A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson
"Got Edge?" - Steven J. Arness - Coachless, two years and counting.
"He who carves himself to suit others will soon whittle himself away."
"Sometimes you get what you want but loose what you have."

Hi Angelskates, yes, I am calling them silly, silly because the arguments they use make no sense. Ok, so say it's silly for men to wear skirts as it's not traditional, I would say it's silly that women wear mens pants. You would say thats silly because it's normal for women to wear pants, and I would say, yes, only because Amelia Jenks Bloomer thought it was silly that she couldn't wear pants. So yes, I find it silly that I can only wear pants when women can wear pants or skirts, and many other forms of male clothing (including a tie!) and not be called silly. The arguments I hear as to why I can't wear a skirt make no sense to me, and hence, are silly. But yes, I do understand their view, but since I don't comply, them I would be disrespecting thier view, it's a no win situation no matter what I do unless I crawl under a rock.

The disrespectful are those who do not have a tolerance for my expression of individuality by automaticly assuming that I am something I am not. I am not a child molesting sexual predator just because I wear a skirt, for people to assume as such is disrespectful, and for some unkown reason, I feel it's my goal to change such assumptions.

Steven

__________________
"A sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
"A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson
"Got Edge?" - Steven J. Arness - Coachless, two years and counting.
"He who carves himself to suit others will soon whittle himself away."
"Sometimes you get what you want but loose what you have."

Goodness me! - have I rendered you almost speechless? - do I get a prize?

__________________
'skating is not just a sport - it is an obsession'

Yes! How about a hair scrunchie? As I can't really use them!

Steven

__________________
"A sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
"A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson
"Got Edge?" - Steven J. Arness - Coachless, two years and counting.
"He who carves himself to suit others will soon whittle himself away."
"Sometimes you get what you want but loose what you have."

Great! - what colours you got????? (only joking!!!)

__________________
'skating is not just a sport - it is an obsession'

Just got a black one with silver dots, a green sparkly one, a red with yellow trome one, a, ah, oh wait a minute! You said only joking! Oh well, when I'm silly, I just put then on my wrist

Steven

__________________
"A sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
"A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson
"Got Edge?" - Steven J. Arness - Coachless, two years and counting.
"He who carves himself to suit others will soon whittle himself away."
"Sometimes you get what you want but loose what you have."

Steven, you are a philosopher and a gentleman.

Steven

__________________
"A sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
"A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson
"Got Edge?" - Steven J. Arness - Coachless, two years and counting.
"He who carves himself to suit others will soon whittle himself away."
"Sometimes you get what you want but loose what you have."

Steven, you are famous. You have your own thread over at FSU.

__________________
~No thinking, breathing, or hesitation!~

It's not the fact that you wear dresses...it's the fact that you want to play with all the little girls and touch their dresses.

nether dh or I would take our kids off the ice. Life is about differences, and we are teaching them to think out of the box about life.
You wear what makes to happy.Its not illegal.

I dare you to prove the words that spew from your mouth, and when you can't, I, and many others, will watch as you eat your words.

Steven

__________________
"A sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
"A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson
"Got Edge?" - Steven J. Arness - Coachless, two years and counting.
"He who carves himself to suit others will soon whittle himself away."
"Sometimes you get what you want but loose what you have."

I do?!?!??!? WOW! It's been ages since I've been over there (hurrying off to go look!)

Steven

__________________
"A sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
"A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson
"Got Edge?" - Steven J. Arness - Coachless, two years and counting.
"He who carves himself to suit others will soon whittle himself away."
"Sometimes you get what you want but loose what you have."

He's also famous over at RSSIF too!!!

You GO, Steven!!! You GO!!!

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&...ing.ice.figure

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

OMG! (Gal darn it, there's no fainting smilie!)

Steven

__________________
"A sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
"A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai Stevenson
"Got Edge?" - Steven J. Arness - Coachless, two years and counting.
"He who carves himself to suit others will soon whittle himself away."
"Sometimes you get what you want but loose what you have."

Reading the posts on the other board just reminded me ...

Many years ago I used to sing alto with a large and successful choir. Choirs are generally short on tenors, but our choir boosted the male ranks with one youngish lady of Japanese appearance who used to sing tenor alongside the men. When we did concerts, she used to line up in the male group and blend in nicely, dressed as she was in full male concert kit of black dinner jacket, tie and trousers. Meanwhile, we higher-voiced ladies were assembled in front, wearing matching white evening blouses and ankle-length black skirts ....

She did attract quite a bit of attention during practices, and was right in line for first pick of the men. Mind you, I do still think she could quite easily have sung with the alto's if she'd wanted to ......