Here's the thread for questions you feel kinda stupid asking...

Like: What's a drunken sailor?

FO mohawks. I'm not sure of the origin of the "drunken sailor" nickname. I guess the idea is that b/c you're turning away from the circle, you can feel wobbly and off balance - the challenge is to maintain a perfectly clean outside edge as you go from forward to backward after the mohawk.

LOVE outside mohawks - moreso than the inside by far....but here's a question - I've had a few coaches tell me that there's no such thing as "outside mohawks"...what do they mean by this?

Sorry for thread hijack.

There are most definitely Outside Mohawks, although most FO Mohawks that I see are cheated. There are FO open Mohawks and FO closed Mohawks, BO open Mohawks (as when you step from BO to FO) and BO closed Mohawks (a little tricky, step from BO to FO by placing the instep of your free foot behind the heel of your skating foot. the new free foot leaves the ice in a forward direction). There is even something in Senior MIF called a BI Mohawk that is done with the same rotation as a BI three, with the new skating foot taking the ice toe to toe with the old skating foot.

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Cute name, "Drunken Sailor." I wanted to ask as well, but I lost track of the thread that mentioned it. We call these "Windmills" and they include alternating arms as well.

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Probably that they don't know how to do them. Outside mohawks are my favorites!

I've never heard the term "drunken sailor", though.

I want to think that the concept of a "drunken sailor" in skating simply means that one is not firmly on their feet (or edge) on the ice.

Want to find a real drunken sailor? Come to my part of the world and it'll be easy!!

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

The only druken sailors I've ever seen have been on Navy Pier in Chicago or in NYC when they come into town in their whites.

With regards to mohawks the worst one to do "well" is the woman's on the end pattern of the foxtrot. The bi mohawk on the Sr. moves is actually fun to but takes some serious practice to get comfortable with.

Doesn't it all take practice...ekkk

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Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

Yeah, I have to do these stupid things in the show AND in my competition routine.....and I hate them because I don't mohawk well.

Well, I have a conflict in definitions of the "outside mohawk" term. Coach #2 says they are outside because the new foot is on the outside of the skating leg and then is put down on the ice. Coach #3 (for the show) says the skating foot in on a deep outside edge and the skating foot is placed on the instep......(don't ask about my arms, as I'm too busy concentrating on my feet to worry about that part).

My private coach says if I can't get these by Wednesday, they are out of my footwork pattern and we will just do power-3's (which I had to learn for the ice show in December....in 2 weeks) why me??????

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

That is seriously horrible, but I think the Tango Mohawk is even worse. Many skaters at my level find the 14-step Mohawk scarier than the Foxtrot one, but I find it easier.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Coach #2 is so wrong that I would doubt anything else she/he has to say. "Outside" refers to the entrance edge on the turn and is so basic to skating terminology that I can't imagine how anyone could skate long enough to become a coach and not know that. The turn is a Mohawk because it is a change of direction from one foot to the other without a change of edge.

Coach #3 is correct, but is describing how to do the turn, rather than defining the turn. Without knowing the edge the new skating foot will take, you don't know if it is a Mohawk or a Choctaw (changes edges). Re your arms: keep your back strongly into the circle, and your arms over the circle.

I like what your private coach says about them the best .

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Please tell me "coach #2" is just helping out with the show and isn't a real coach, and that he/she doesn't take money from people to teach them skating? Please, please, please.

I doubt this person's ability to so much as teach someone to go forward if they don't know what "outside" or "inside" refers to in terms of skating. It's so basic I have no idea how they are able to skate themselves, without this knowledge. I'm pretty sure (and I can't remember that far back but at least I'd hope so) that I learned this in Basic Skills. Everyone should have.

Yes, #2 is just helping out for the show. #3 actually is a pre-silver-level skater. I'm lucky to have her as my partner for another part of the show (8-part mohawk step sequence she basically can just pull me around if she has to ....)

We worked on these drunken sailors and the mohawks sequence some more.....they are absolute evil! But she did mention having a strong check and deeper edges!

My private coach rocks....although she pushes me, we only have a few weeks to get my program up to Bronze level for this in-house competition (I'm still not happy about that) and to get a sit-spin.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Coach #2 was probably confused on your question, and instead of answering your question, was telling you the difference between open and closed mohawks. The "inside/outside" refers to the edge you are on. The "open/closed" refers to the manner in which the free foot is placed on the ice, relative to the skating foot. An open mohawk is one in which the free foot is placed in front of the free foot (eg 14-step). A closed mohawk is one in which the free foot is placed behind the skating foot (eg Foxtrot).

I've heard wierd things from coaches, too. Well they can't be 100 percent all the time I guess. I've started a new thread on "wierd things told to you by apparently well qualified coaches".

But a coach shouldn't be confused on basic footwork steps.

i just wish they would like standardise these terms or something and teach them properly to coaches, because i've seen coaches use terminology like this, meaning something different, and confusing inside/outside with open/closed.

I agree completely! All it does is confuse everyone else.....

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

There are standards, but remember that the terms vary by country and even region -- hence the start of this topic. ("Drunken Sailor" vs. "Windmill")

Here in the US, the PSA and the ISI provide coaches' education programs and exams for building knowledge. My skating director also arranges small workshops, but she's unusual in that way. It's pretty much up to each coach to learn the many terms and items.

I've heard very good coaches misstate things because they were distracted, didn't understand the question, or simply was thinking of the wrong thing. Realizing that "Coach #2" (is s/he behind Door #1?) was just helping out for the Show, cut him/her some slack before you reject the person.

I still like the name "Drunken Sailors" though!

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I thought it was a drink.

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It's when you go boating while drinking

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Thanks!! I appreciate the explanation!

I also want to reply to the "no such thing as outside mohawks" thing. We had an "advisor" come to our rink (couldn't be called a coach because he didn't get on the ice, wasn't really credentialed, etc. but had been some skating champion from the 40-50's) who said there was only one type of mohawk (outside).

We even showed him the USFSA rulebook and he called it poppycock and rubbish. (this guy also said no jump should have a 3-turn in it)

Old-School, New-School, Whatever.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!