I've been on both sides of this discussion. When I first started with the waltz jump, I wouldn't (couldn't) do it without my pads on...they were my security blanket. But, I thought it was stupid that if I didn't have them on I couldn't do the jump, so I worked really hard to get over it.

Now, i wear the gel-pads when I know I am working on jumps and the back or sit spin (or sometimes camel). When I'm in lessons, I don't always wear them, I don't halt the lesson either to go get them on if coach says "we're jumping."

I've fallen with and without; yes, I'd rather fall with them on (less painful) but I don't let that hold me back and I don't think people should be snotty towards others about it.

We have several girls who do test and compete in their pads, at the instruction of their mothers.

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

oooo! I started a contraversy!!


Just to clarify... Im fine with other people wearing protective gear, and I do understand that for certain purposes its a fantastic and necessary idea... hell Im sure Im going to be padded fully when I eventually learn jumps/spins etc...

but for now, when I am confident on the ice for general basic skating, I would prefer to not wear knee pads, as I dont feel the need for them... other people do, and thats fine... each to their own... if it helps them learn and get more confident, then thats great!

The term 'security blanket' is not derogratory, and Im sorry if it came across that way... there is nothing wrong with having something there to make you feel more comfortable and secure...

Do you want to know what MY security blanket is? Its my husband.... if he is there teaching and helping me, I am more confident doing things because I know he will tell when I do something wrong, he will correct me, and he will support me, and if I fall and injure myself, he will look after me... Now what happens if he isnt there? I still try hard, but not as focussed as when he is there... BUT I am better for the experience of having him there...

The same applies to whatever form you have that helps you on or off the ice (dont get me started on what my dance & trapeze security blanket was )... it is there to help you...

So long as it doesnt hinder you...

That was my point I feel that knee pads would hinder me, and I choose not to use them..

Can I go back to being an observer now?

__________________
--------------
-Erinna-
aka cassarilda

My Progress Report!
"Did I mention there is only ONE rink in Melbourne?!"
"If you're not flying, you're obviously not trying!!!" - courtsey of the guy who helped me up off the ice after my last spectacular and sore fall

You have managed to completely miss my point! To me and many others who wear knee pads and/or other protective gear, the issue is not comfort or security at all. The issue is protection from potentially significant damage.

__________________

I was making that comment in regards to the term "security blanket"... NOT about protection.

If i didnt make it clear, let me just do so now...

There is nothing wrong with wearing protection... I understand the many reasons behind wearing it

I am NOT one of those people who laugh at or scorn others because they choose to wear it... and I would expect people not to laugh or scorn me because, at this point in time, I choose not to... its not for fear of looking silly etc, because I probably look more silly being on the ice more often...

I understand that it may help prevent injury from direct falls etc... and it is a good idea, and Ive seen the benefits is provides to many people at my rink...

but again...

I choose not to.

__________________
--------------
-Erinna-
aka cassarilda

My Progress Report!
"Did I mention there is only ONE rink in Melbourne?!"
"If you're not flying, you're obviously not trying!!!" - courtsey of the guy who helped me up off the ice after my last spectacular and sore fall

I'm sorry, but i think kneepads are useless.

I know that the second i don't get any pain from falling, i stop learning. Its an element of learning, you are never going to get it untill you fall and it hurts. The knee pads also give people a false sense of security, when there are many many other injuries you can get from skating. They give you a feeling that you can try anything, fall and not get hurt, as a result you might fall another way and get sriously hurt. Pain is what keeps people skating at a safe level for their skill, because no-one wants to fall over and over and over on their knees if it hurts.


Personally i'd like to learn skating the good old fashioned way, knee pads seem like a quick fix but are actually far from. And people do use them as security blankets. If you don't see people doing this at your rink..think about how many kids learn to swim with the arm floats and then struggle to get rid of them.

I also think its pointless to try and avoid injury in skating. obviously one should skate with reasonble sfaety measures, but you need to leave your fear at the door. if you are worried about injuries, the sport of skating is not for you. It you want to skate at your highest possible level, the worry of injuries should be far far away at the back of your mind. Being too careful will get you nowhere.

I don't think the issue is pain, it's damage...every single person here understands that falling on ice is going to hurt. But for some people, falling on a certain spot repeatedly can cause enough damage to prevent them from skating at all. Some bodies take a long time to heal.

__________________
~No thinking, breathing, or hesitation!~

Just curious, how old are you? Your point of view can change considerably over the years.

It's a shame that you can't learn without pain! You have my sincere condolences. As a kid, when I was a roller dancer, I fell many times and experienced pain from it. I don't recall learning anything from that except that hitting the floor hurts! A not unusual fall was when you locked the wheels of your skates together and went down like a ton of bricks. It never stopped me from stroking so close I could hear the wheels click because that was the goal. But I also never needed to lock the wheels to learn anything!

It is absolutely true that if you don't take chances, you are not going to learn, but there is also absolutely no reason to take unnecessary chances. Kneepads will be useless to you until you need them. If you reach your fifties and you are still learning, you might find you need them. If you injure your knee/s you might find you need them.

__________________

May we all just agree that if you feel like you should wear them, then do so!

And if you feel like you dont need them, then dont....

But if someone suggests wearing or removing them, then think about it.

It is a personal choice after all....



Democracy and free will... gotta love it!

__________________
--------------
-Erinna-
aka cassarilda

My Progress Report!
"Did I mention there is only ONE rink in Melbourne?!"
"If you're not flying, you're obviously not trying!!!" - courtsey of the guy who helped me up off the ice after my last spectacular and sore fall

for those people who are at a very high risk of skating, perhaps knee pads are a good option.

on the other hand, if you are at such a high risk for injury, maybe skating is taking a bit too much of a risk.

as for pain and learning, having protective pads on allows you to lose your inhibitions and worries, i know if i wore knee and/or hip pads I would take a lot more unnecesary risks on the ice and maybe get hurt some other way.

i have no problem with people wearing protective gear, in fact i really couldn't care less if people want to wear them or not. i'm just saying that its not going to promote real progress and it most definately is a security blanket.

its up the skater if they want to wear them, i jsut don't think its a good way to learn.

I'm sure that must be true for you!

__________________

beachbabe, I'm guessing that you're on the young end - early teens, maybe? If so, you're working from that viewpoint, which is totally understandable. However, since many skaters on this board are adults, they're coming from a totally different viewpoint.

Once a body passes a certain point, things don't heal nearly as fast. If a kid falls out a tree and breaks his arm, you slap a cast on it and it's as good as new after a while. An adult who breaks an arm will need a much longer time for the bone to repair itself, and it may never function in the same way again. For some adults, the security provided by padding may not be "If I fall, it won't hurt," so much as "If I fall, I'll be able to get up again." This risk doesn't mean they need to abstain from a sport they enjoy - it just means being sensible and taking care of one's body as needed.

Adults have a different mental block that your average kid learning to skate (or at least I do - maybe I'm just odd). I'm considering pads for jumping not because I'm afraid of pain - I've got the bruises to prove it - but because on some level, I'm afraid of screwing up and seriously injuring myself. Mistakes are part of the learning curve for everyone, but an adult is better equipped to identify the potential fallout from said mistakes, which can lead to excessive restraint and thus impede learning. I'd take them off once I had the technique down, because the risk of injury is much lower when you know what you're doing.

Of course, padding is a personal choice, but it may be more important (and beneficial) for some than others.

Well said!

As one who has suffered a broken right arm three times in my 59 years, I can tell you that the experience was vastly different at 55 than it was at 5 and 15. In the two earlier cases, the cast came off, and I was as good as new immediately. The last time, however, I could not bend my elbow when it was freed up. I was able to work on it before the rest of the cast came off, but when my wrist was freed up, I could hardly bend it at all. My doctor gave me the choice of going for PT or doing the exercises myself, which was what I chose. I did regain full mobility, but my wrist is permanently deformed, and I still have pain from time to time. A broken arm really seemed like a trivial thing to me when I was young, but it is far from that after 50. Even in one's thirties, joints quickly become stiff with immobility and PT is needed when a cast comes off. I know of two adults who have broken their knee caps on the ice, but have never heard of a child or teenager doing so. The risks are different and call for a different response.

__________________

Knee pads aren't useless at all. Many skaters have fallen on their knee with pads on....and then they just get up again....no pain. No problem.

Sure, we fall....but in the days of the new school, we have pad technology, so if we wear protective gear and fall, it can significantly reduce or even eliminate the chance of injury on the part that impacts the ground...such as the knee...or elbow...or head.

Knee pads don't give people a false sense of security against knee protection. They work well to protect the knees. Very well in fact. Other injuries can happen....sure....but falling on knees and things is common...so if you can just put a pad there and stop the pain and stop the damage....then excellent.

When I skated as a teenager (1960's) I never saw a helmet or brace or any kind of pads being used. I wrecked at age 18 working on axles and smashed my knees and that took me off-ice for what I thought would be the rest of my life. If I had been wearing knee pads it is possible the injury wouldn't have been nearly as severe. Well into my 40's, I still had knee problems - either knee would just "go out" on me unexpectedly and if there wasn't something to grab on to, I'd be on the floor. thank God that has finally cleared up and I started skating again in January, at age 56.

In my struggle to re-learn skating, I have just started into backward skating. Only yesterday I said to my coach that I was seriously thinking about getting a butt pad and a helmet since I felt that would give me the confidence to push harder and stretch my limits.

At this ripe old age, with one injury behind me, I'd rather push my limits with protection and keep on skating!

__________________
Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

With regards to the Knee Pads.

Prevention is always better than the Cure :-)

:-)

It's a sad fact of life that one's bones become more brittle with age, and a fall you would have bounced back from at 16 might mean a broken hip at 61.

Oh come on, DBNY, there are skaters in their 80s out there competing! Well, at least one - Husband and I are going to be skating against him and his dance partner at the Mountain Cup, and, believe me, I feel honoured to be doing so.

And I've known pairs skaters in their 70s.... and yes, they included lifts in their programmes.

This is so not just a sport for the young - but it keeps us young.

Incidentally, re padding - my coach allows/encourages his free skaters to pad, especially once they start learning axels. However, he said that eventually they all give up the padding, once they learn that you never fall on the padded bit! If you pad your behind, you land on your hip. If you pad your hip, you land on your knees. If you pad your knees, you land on your behind..... etc....

__________________
Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

I've never used one of the fishing-pole types, but I can imagine they'd work better since they're lighter. We have one of the ceiling mounted ones, and the harness itself is incredibly heavy.

Also, as for getting the rough feel of a jump, if you're working on triples, you should be able to do that by doing a lot of doubles (because the feel on the takeoff of a triple is slightly different), using the takeoff you would for a triple but not pulling in. I usually do 5 doubles for every one triple attempt until a fully master the feel of the takeoff.

And on the kneepad/harness note, though injuries from falling do hurt and can be bad, it's the overuse injuries that take skaters off the ice. I've only see three people every break a bone (from falling -- not stress fractures from overuse) skating, and only one of them quit afterwards. The other two were off for about two months. On the other hand, almost every high level skater I know has some overuse-related condition or another. I myself have never broken a bone skating or needed stitches or in any way hurt myself by falling and yet by age 14, I had developed chronic back pain, chronic knee problems (patella femoral pain syndrome), and had major hip surgery. With the hip, I was off for two years. Beginning skaters will obviously be more prone to flling injuries, but the truth of the matter is that it's not the falling injuries that cause elite and high-level skaters o quit or be forced to do so -- it's the overuse injuries.

So sorry to hear of all your injuries.

ITA, however, most of us here are adult skaters, and not elite level. Most skaters are not elite level, though even elites do break bones (Sarah Hughes, for one). One reason elites are less likely to break bones is that they are younger. Everyone stands a greater chance of a fracture on almost any fall, when they age. BTW, among adult skaters that I personally know, and not counting myself, I know five who have broken bones skating. One of them is my former coach.

__________________

I wear knee pads all of the time when I am training. Basically, to save what is left of my knees from many years of falling on them. However, about two to three weeks before a competition, or test, I wean myself off of them. They do have this "security" thing about them. I'm becoming very good at making the transition with them to without them. It is not a problem.

By the way, it is so nice to be off the Adult National Schedule Fiasco threads...I feel like a normal person, again

I'm 23, and I won't step on the ice without a kneepad (the Skatingsafe gel pads). I have a cyst/some type of extra tissue over my right kneecap, and if I fall in that general area it HURTS, way more than a fall on my other knee would. I test in a kneepad, and I've never heard a word about it. Actually, my dance coach, an RN who knows about my knee injury and that I wear a pad, wasn't even sure I was wearing it until I told her. This whole discussion of pads being security blankets or whatever just seems silly to me. If Sasha Cohen can skate in the Olympics with her leg wrapped, I can test and compete with my knee pad.

Thanks. I wasn't really commenting about everyone here (and I have no problem with any type of padding, myself, for elite or adult skaters), but more about the comments about pads preventing injuries for elite skaters.

It occurs to me that wearing protection is very much to do with the culture of the rink at which you skate. If everyone wore helmets and knee pads etc, then it would just be what everyone wore. And every beginner figure skater would be pestering his/her parents to buy the protection so they could feel like a 'real skater' too.

At my rink, I never saw people wearing any sort of protection in the past. Lately I have noticed more & more wearing some form of padding, or a wrist guard or whatever. And one person doing it gives permission for others, especially if that one person is one of the most advanced skaters there.

There is no doubt that many older adults have more fear of falling, and that fear stands in the way of their learning new and potentially more risky moves. I'm 46 and don't wear any padding yet, but am not averse to the idea if it proves to be a good idea.

__________________
Karen

I skate - therefore I am

agreed, at my rink no-one wears any kind of protective gear. the really high level skaters dont even wear it when learning because they sjut learn their jumps with the harness untill its perfect and they can do it themselves.

Funny you should mention that. The INTERESTING part about your argument is that "old school" skaters, even those doing lots of triples, had a much much lower rate of injury than this new generation. So what does that tell ya? The harness apparently isn't that pivotal in the number of serious injuries incurred by skaters after all. Kurt Browning was doing quads back then. He's still skating today and doing triples. Meanwhile, the people in the past couple of Olympics have all disappeared, most due to hip injuries (Yagudin, Lipinski..). I'm waiting for the hard data before considering the harness an injury-reducing tool. Same with the new hinged boots. I'm waiting on data before thinking they're any better than the "old school" boots. You can theoritize all you want, but where are the facts?

Dead? Doing a jump? Are you serious?

Have you ever tried doubles? I'm not being condescending at all here, just asking. It's just that it's really not a big deal. It's a jump. It won't kill you.