Skaternum, I thought restraint was in order because Loops works at the rink as a part-time instructor. (Usually, I would have said something akin to "B---h, puh-lease!")
The woman actually interrupted us: She flagged Loops down and then started to lecture her. I said something like: "That's nice; we need to get back to practicing."
When Loops said that the kid can't land his jumps irrespective of us, well, I was thinking the same thing. The kid was trying (oh, it was SO sad) to land a double flip.

Don't get me wrong: I know that pairs teams take up a lot of room. However, that's partially why we are skating at 6:20AM! (And if we are a problem, why is her kid skating at this time? He's out of school; let him skate the later sessions. Grrr.) But we pay the same amount for the ice and we are respectful of the other skaters. We move our choreography in deference to the coaches and to not be obnoxious (like doing death spirals in the middle of the rink). there's only so much we can do. In fact, Loops is usually TOO kind in that she inserts her humanity too much during our practice and is aware about where everyone is.

So after we got off that session, I went to the lobby and, er, just happened to sit down next to this woman. We had a little exchange.

Evil woman: "You know, if you don't watch out, you are going to injure one of those kids. You almost crashed into [insert skater's name]. And then she reiterated what Loops mentioned above.

Me: "Um, are you even a skater, or have you ever skated? We were at least 6 feet [I chose '6 feet' because this is where I'm thinking she should be buried under!] away from that girl--that is light years in freestyle session terms. And for you to suggest that we skate our program in a moves session is so ridiculous that I'm not even going to respond to that. You know, I understand your concerns, but we paid the same just as everyone did, and we have every right to be out there. We have been skating pairs for more than a year and a half, and we have never collided with anyone. My partner and I even moved our choreography to avoid skating into a student during her lesson. There's only so much we can do. You almost must understand that it is incumbent upon anyone in a freestyle session to generally learn the flow of traffic. During a lift, I have a woman above my head and in front of me. My vision will be obstructed, so the kids must watch where they are going." {Insert dumbfounded look on Evil Woman.}

Evil woman: "Well, when you have kids [Um, NOT!], you'll maybe understand my concern. You're a big, strong guy skating fast [huh? me, skate fast? Bwahahaha.] out there, and if you hit a kid, he is going to take the brunt of it. You just need to be aware of how it must be when there are 2 adults skating piars among all these kids. That's all I'm saying. These kids are not the same level and size as you ...."

At this point, she felt awkward and then asked what competitions we'll be skating in. And then she said we looked good out there.

The funny thing is that her son (who is all of 12 years?) must have been mortified. I skated on the next session (sans Loops) and her kid had this terrified look on his face. He probably thought I was going to ram into him. At one point, he was skating toward me (as I was attempting to do a rocker--hmmm, maybe that's why he was scared!) and stopped on a dime and went skating back to the boards!
It's not you who is the problem, kiddo.

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
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Hmmm, NoVa, it sounds like the kid is a higher-level skater than you and Loops (if he's working on double flip). As you pointed out, every skater should watch out for others, particularly lower-level skaters than they. If this kid is a good enough skater to try double flips, he has just as much (if not more) responsibilty to go around you and Loops as the other way around.

At a crowded Sat morning FS session last fall/winter, I was in a lesson working on my loop jump, and skated in the direction of a young boy in a lesson (who looked all of 10 or 11 that I didn't know very well b/c he and his sister (who also skate pairs together) are usually at another rink -they are coached by their mother, I believe) who was setting up for a jump in the direction that I was coming from. As we passed, we got about 4 feet from each other, which seemed close to me. I apologized to the mother/coach after I did the jump, and she replied "Oh, no, it's fine. He knew exactly how much room he had." I think the kid skates at either Pre-Juv or Juv in FS b/c he seemed to be doing mostly doubles. At least the mother/coach recognized that even though he's smaller than me, he's a stronger skater and had just much of an obligation to prevent a collision as I did.

My point is that skaters (and coaches) need to be watching out for each other regardless of age or level.

Good for you for standing up to Crazy Skating Mom, NoVa!

What amazes me is that we can get in trouble as figure skaters, but there are absolutely no rules in place for the public skaters - i.e, skating in one direction only, kids pushing buckets in all directions, sliding across the ice, cutting across the ice. I do agree there is a fine line sometimes on things, but OBJECTS on the ice are a HUGE liability on theirs and the rinks part.

If it is something the skaters leave there, i get rid of it immediately. Sometimes i just tell them they are not supposed to have objects on the ice because someone could get seriously hurt.

Sounds like your mom kept a cool head about it, and that always helps to diffuse the "defense" mechanism that can kick in. I just can't believe the manger's response to it initially.

Debbie, the kid in question is a typical preliminary boy. He can do an axel, but ALL of his double attempts are cheated by a good half-turn, his spins are slow, and his overall skating is fairly weak. The kids start working on doubles as soon as they can do all of their singles; it doesn't mean that they're good skaters.

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Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

I guess it all depends on where you skate . Here, my small pre pre kids skate with novice and senior ladies,and ice dance couples who are novice.Its just something they all do.The lower level ones are TAUGHT to watch out, and the higher level ones KNOW to watch.
Im sure some of the higher ones and even the lower ones who would love to not have to share ice. But its just life, to share.
Unless you buy your lbuy your own ice time !!

Thanks for the clarification, Loops. The kid in my story was pretty fast - I think he was working on Intermediate MIF, and his doubles seemed pretty consistent. You're right that we shouldn't make assumptions about a skater's ability level just by the jumps he/she is working on. My point was that everyone should be expected/taught to watch out for others on an FS session.

My frustration as an adult skater is having kids jump right in my way during run-throughs or moves practice (during lesson) b/c they just weren't looking. If I run into them, even when I have the right of way, it's basically my fault b/c I'm the adult and am supposed to know better, even if the kid is at a higher level than me. But if a kid is doing a program and collides with another kid who got in their way, then it is the fault of the oblivious skater.

It's still pretty good that the kid can do cheated double jumps though. I mean most people at preliminary don't do more than waltz and single toe and sal and half jumps, right?

Umm kids at that level usually have at least an axle, and double jumps.At least the competive ones do.

That's the test requirements. Competitive Preliminary skaters generally have a solid axel.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

Sadly at my rink, I wonder if the lower level kids are taught to watch out at all. I've had a few issues with some of the beginner skaters not watching and I've had to either abort a element or alter a moves pattern because of it.

NoVa, I'm just waiting for a parent to make a similiar comment to me- they will be told where to go!

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

I've seen a hockey coach give lessons on public ice---it was quite a sight! Of course, no mention was made to us that this was a hockey lesson.....and several kids almost got knocked into by the guy in lessons skating backwards in the center hockey circle. Of course, he didn't say "excuse me" these little kids dont know to look where they are going.

But, at my rink it wasn't really discussed for us in Learn-to-Skate lessons who has right-of-way during freestyle sessions until someone asked. Even stepping onto the ice during one freestyle session, no mention was made so who is at fault if someone doesn't know and doesn't think to ask?

I had a collision last winter because someone wasn't paying attention during a rehearsal (they were standing on the ice chatting) and didn't move out of the way (coach saw her and yelled "Keep Going!)-BAM! Luckily, no one was hurt-she just got a little wind knocked out of her (neither of us went down) but the next time we went around she was gone (said collision was unavoidable because it was a synchro line and she had no where to go and luckily we weren't at full speed!).

We had a "screaming parent" issue over something else because a girl was doing a camel (very nicely) and some lutzes at one end of the rink and the children of screaming mimi were at the other end trying to skate---mom was upset that "such dangerous moves" were allowed on the same sessions as her precious girls as they might get hurt (duh!) even though they were on opposite ends of the rink! That took lots of de-fusing (that mom freaks out over everything at the rink-cost, costumes, why her little girls don't get solo spots in the shows (maybe because they aren't any good and barely skate?), why is the rink dirty, etc...... These girls are young teens....

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Okay, it's my turn to vent.

I wasn't going to write about this because I was going to save my anger for the rink manager on Monday but here it goes...

My rink has been closed for the last week or so to redo the ice. Fortunately for me there are about 5 other rinks within a 30 mile radius. I went to one rink on Wednesday night public session and skated as I usually do - jumps, spins - a few sad camel attempts in the coned off section of the rink, footwork etc. No one said a word, which I was surprised about because I had skated at that rink before and they were pretty strict about figure skaters staying in the "coned off section" with no camel spins or spirals. Makes sense - even though I'm well trained in looking out for others, public session skaters are pretty oblivious to whats going on around them.

So I go on Saturday afternoon public session from 12-3. I arrive at 12:15 or so and much to my dismay there is a group of about 10-12 4-5 year old "future hockey players" receiving a group lesson in the figure skaters practice area in the middle of the rink. Fine. I'll wait until they're done.

Half an hour goes by, and meanwhile I'm more than warmed up. So, since the public session was pretty empty (by public session standards that I'm used to) I staked out a corner and did a one foot spin.

A ONE FOOT SPIN PEOPLE

Immediately two skate guards rushed over like I murdered someone on the ice and chastised me like I was some 15 year old kid about how there can't be ANY figure skating outside of the center circle. The conversation proceeded like so -

Them: YOU CAN'T DO THAT OUTSIDE OF THE CENTER OF THE ICE.
Me: I'm standing 2 feet away from you, you don't have to yell. And considering that you have a private lesson in the middle of the ice, where do you expect me to practice?
Them: That's not our problem, you have to follow the rules or we'll kick you out.
Me: Where are your rules posted? I haven't skated here in about 2 years, but I dumped a lot of money into this rink when I did skate here and I've NEVER been talked to like this.
Them: It's not our problem, this is a public session.
Me: Funny, but I was here on your public session on Wednesday night and there was about the same amount of people here and I was doing camel spins and skating backwards and everything else that you're wetting yourselves over.
Them: Well you need to keep to the middle of the ice, those are the rules.
Me: Fine, I'll go to the middle of the ice in the middle of that lesson
Them: You can't do that
Me: Oh? But you just said...
Them: You need to wait until the lesson is done
Me: (steaming at this point, the ice under my feet was melting quite rapidly) so let me get this straight - I pay 7 dollars to skate here, which by the way is ridiculous in of itself, and there is no place for me to practice, so I just have to stand here with my thumb up my butt until the hockey tot lesson is over?
Them: Pretty much.
Me: Nice attitude - you listen to me, I am an ADULT, not one of your punk friends so you treat me with a little respect
Them: If you have a problem go talk to the manager, but otherwise if we see you doing any figure skating outside of the center we're kicking you off.

But no wait...it gets better. A mother of a younger girl and a friend of mine also got ripped for practicing 3 turns. THREE TURNS. The little lesson lasted another 20 minutes or so and then it seemed like everyone in the rink was suddenly a figure skater. So now in a circle about 8 feet in diameter contained 10 kids, most of whom couldn't even skate forwards but were trying to spin. Meanwhile, me and my friend would wind up for a spin, or start a tiny footwork sequence and the kids would run right into us, then give US dirty looks. One kid cut through the middle with those red pusher things to help non-skaters and rammed me while I was doing a scratch spin and I toppled over. Where are the skate guards then? Talking to some girl at the side of the boards, go figure.

So, now I'm REALLY mad, and this girl who was amazingly talented came on the ice and started doing backwards perimeter stroking. She was told to go to the middle. Then she went and did a few spins, almost taking out 5 kids in the process because they skated right up to her. Then she got annoyed and did a gorgeous but small double flip at the end of the rink and they guards told her to do it in the middle. She then came back and did it in the middle when they made the announcement that NO jumps are to be done on a public session.

What??? Since WHEN??

At this point I'm just frustrated, so I go get my stuff and prepare to leave. Meanwhile I was watching this girl and she did a nice sit spin into a fast back scratch in the center of the ice where she was told she could when another announcement was made saying NO spinning was allowed on the ice at all.

I went over a chewed the guards out again saying that they were being discriminatory against figure skaters - the kids could plow into people and now get in trouble, but people who know what they're doing can't practice. The one guard responded

"Well, they HAVE special ice time for figure skaters, it's called FREESTYLE".

I replied "look, kid, I KNOW what freestyle is for but I also know the rules for public ice and you're making up your own rules as you see fit. I don' t like you're attitude and your behavior is way out of line. I'll be speaking to your manager on Monday."

Then I left.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRGHHH.

I understand they have rules for safety, but when they start making up rules for a particular group of people while letting the rest of the rink do whatever they feel like thats grounds for a complaint. I was planning on going to a public session there on Tuesday from 12-2 while all the kids are in school but now I'm not so sure that I want to go, I mean, whats the point if I can't do anything but laps in a counterclockwise direction. I forgot to mention that you're not allowed to skate "fast" because they'll get you for "racing". Racing who? I'm there by myself!

I can't believe I paid 7 bucks to spend my Saturday afternoon aggravated.

It's surprising that more people don't get injured during public sessions. We went to a session last year and there were small boys who were sliding around on their behinds and also rolling on the ice for fun. No parents or ice monitors in sight. I didn't complain though, because that same rink also allows figure skaters to work on their jumps during these sessions. Luckily, those boys were not there the next time that we went. Unfortunately, you never know what is going to happen on public ice sessions. It is sometimes a good way to get cheap ice for a figure skater, but you have to keep in mind that anybody can show up - and there will usually be some rowdy kids in the mix. It is really rediculous when management isn't concerned about the safety of their patrons, and even more rediculous when they are nasty to customers who are voicing their concerns.

When my kid first started skating, she was geting lessons in the center of the ice. Although the ice was marked off with cones, numerous skaters would come straight through the center and almost collide with her. Occassionally the culprits were unskilled skaters who just couldn't steer, but usually it was the more skilled skaters and hockey players... We quickly learned that public ice was not a good place to be coached, so we joined the club.

It is very important that figure skaters be very careful during these public sessions. The average skater at a public session has no clue as to who has the right-of-way. (Even figure skater have a difficult time with this during their freestyle sessions.) It probably isn't a good idea to ever do spirals, sit spins, or camel spins during public sessions.

Normally I would suggest trying out this rink again in the future, but because of the management's response I would suggest you go elsewhere. I've been to several rinks, and not all of them allow this kind of horseplay.

Big Mama and sunshinepointe's posts only remind me of why I refuse to practice during public sessions- a lot of time and money is wasted and skating is expensive enough!

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

At our rink, lessons happen wherever the coaches find a space, and you tend to know roughly which coach works where.... this also happens for those who teach on public session. The only time the ice is coned off (and it's one end, not the centre) is when group lessons are being held during public ice time, either school classes or learn-to-skate.

Mind you, you have to be sensible. When a group of 200 French schoolkids is booked in, you don't expect to be able to do anything..... but there are also almost empty sessions.

I haven't skated on a public session for a couple of years, though, as we get such a very good rate on teaching ice, it's much cheaper not to!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

[QUOTE=Mrs Redboots]Mind you, you have to be sensible. When a group of 200 French schoolkids is booked in, you don't expect to be able to do anything..... but there are also almost empty sessions.[QUOTE]

That reminds me of a rink I skate at--each year, they get a busload of people from Panama who rent private ice. Apparently they stay very late at night, and most of them can barely skate, but they all love it and have a blast. I've never been there when they've been there, but I'm dying to know whether they come all the way from Panama to skate at this rink, or whether they combine it with a trip to NYC or DC or other tourism, or if they are Panamanians living in America.

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OK, whoever posted about tossing the objects into the darkest corner of the rink I love it!

Usually, when the kids play 'keep-away' with the hockey gloves, I just pick them up and put them in the hockey box. When the kid skates up to me, 'hey, that's mine' - I just explain that they can't toss gloves around because someone might accidently skate over it and get hurt. Most of the time they stop, but if they don't, I think I'll find that dark corner...

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blades, gary, Lucy, Emily, take care of Aiden and Sami. Sami is my sweetest heart, and always will be, forever. RIP Cubby Boy, my hero dog.

oo this happened to me yesterday. i went ot the rink and these kids had like 10 bouncy balls. i just wanted to grab them and chuck them in the head! hehe. but their parents were watching. so i just went on. but i got very annoyed. and then these guys who looked mabey 30 or 40 started doing jumps with the walkers. lol.

Our rink seems to go one better, when they have snowbabies sessions and adult starter lessons, they have mobile barriers the hight of a normal barrier that they can move to section the ice off, so unlike the cones, you would have a job skating through them!!

It's excellent and the people concerned can do the business without having to look behind their backs all the time.

I've seen that somewhere else, but I can't at the moment think where - and I've only been to your rink once, and that was for a competition, so it certainly didn't happen there!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

We have them at Bracknell - usually used when there is a Broomball game on a third of the rink or occasionally when there is kids hockey practice. They also come out at Christmas time when the panto backdrop is up and they want to stop skaters going too close.

They aren't used for figure skate lessons but for those an end of the rink gets coned off - which is harsh for those who like to cling to the barriers!

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'skating is not just a sport - it is an obsession'

A long time ago, I was told by a top national coach that the more advanced a skater you are, the greater your obligation to look out for and avoid anyone who is less skilled than you are. It has nothing to do with age or size. So that's my answer when anyone says anything about adults "having" to watch out for kids.

I also avoid public sessions like the plague. I don't care how cheap the ice is; it's just not worth the frustration.

In the distant past, though, I was known for asking for a copy of the rules in writing, signed and dated by the manager, which I carried in my skate bag. Then, when somebody questioned what I was doing where, I could pull out the copy and point out the line that applied.

On freestyle sessions at a rink I don't skate at often, I make it a point to ask where the designated spin area is that day. There's one particular coach there who makes a major issue about adults getting in the way of her students so I make certain I'm following the current rules and am "in the right" just to avoid the hassle.

OK, I have a rant to add...

Synchro season has started and lately, there have been occasional groups of 4-6 girls on freestyle sessions doing line and block patterns.

Um...HELLO?!?!

Several coaches have complained, but no one has kicked them off yet. I suspect it's because these girls are also freestyle and dance skaters who pay for 20+ hours of skating a week in the summer. Whatever. I don't know who is ultimately in charge, and I don't have a problem if they're freestyling or dancing.

However....
I was trying to run through my program (IN a lesson, WITH music on, WHILE wearing a program jersey) and the following things happened:
1) Trying to move diagonally down ice to set up my spread eagle: girls in a line pattern, couldn't move out of the way fast enough, and so I had to abort the spread eagle because I was at the wrong angle
2) Setting up my lutz: girls decided to move across my lutz pattern in a line, doing back crossovers. Had to abort lutz attempt.
3) I couldn't even set up my flying camel because there they were, just standing in a block formation, not moving... I stopped, looked at them, waited for them to get out of the way, but they just stood there and looked at me until I said (probably not too kindly at this point) "I'm supposed to be doing a spin right there!"
4) Straightline footwork: Now they migrated to stand around in the MIDDLE of the rink. Had to stop footwork in the middle, and that was it for my program. Didn't even attempt to finish it--it wasn't worth it. Girls got chewed out by my coach, but by this time I was tired and frustrated and in no mood to try another program.

I don't think they're trying to be in the way--they seem to understand the right-of-way rules, but they can't get out of the way quickly enough because there's too many of them. 6 people scattering in 6 directions is still going to leave you with a few in the way.

I ended up getting nothing done. Eventually, they stopped (I think they were only doing it for 30 minutes), but it left me in such a foul mood. I pay the same amount per hour for the freestyle as they do, plus my lesson fees, and it's frustrating having to skate while constantly wondering whether the herd is going to form and come stampeding in my direction again.

If this keeps up, I'll be in fine form for Peach, let me tell you.

GRR. NO SYNCHRO.

Uh isn't that what synchro practice is for??

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

Maybe they were on freestyle ice working on synchro moves. If that's the case, shouldn't they yield like everyone else to the person doing their program? Our rink freestyle session doesn't allow synchro unless the coach is present.

We occasionally have show rehearsals for our shows. This is separate ice time from everything else. When it's your music playing, everyone else is supposed to clear out of the way for you (and your group). The problem we have encountered is the 3-4 groups practicing with music all at the same time (each has a boombox); and the skaters not in one of these groups are still on the ice chit-chatting (after they were told to get off the ice). This is where I ran into someone last year. One or two of the groups on the ice is typically a synchro group, on group might be little kids. We don't expect the little ones to get out of our way (because they don't know any better and they are 3-5 years old) but the older ones should know better, especially after they are told.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!