I didn't know we had stairs here. Is Daniel Radcliffe thereabouts? lol j/k

I understood what CoachPA meant, that her student was testing MITF but not competing in the low-level freestyle.

Freestyle's not for everyone. I knew several teens who were pretty high up in MITF because it made them stronger in synchro and dance.

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Hey, I think synchro is GREAT! My 8 yo is still spanning both worlds, she too is a tall girl. Her 14 yo sister is 6 fto 2 inches tall, so I am a bit worried about the younger getting like that and how it will affect this sport she so loves.

I have her in both on purpose- only very few are very successful in freestyle, but she is already a fantastic synchro skater and can keep going with that if freestyle doesn't turn out to be for her

To answer the original thread-starting question, the reason there are axel and no-axel divisions in Pre Pre competitions is because, before USFS instituted the Well-Balanced Program requirements, they decided to allow axels in Pre Pre competitions as the highest jump allowed. (Note: there was a storm of protest about this but to no avil.)

At the time there were a lot of skaters who'd already tested Pre Pre moves and Free who didn't have axels who felt they were being shut out of Pre Pre because of that. So organizers of local comps split the Pre Pre group into axel and no axel to level out the playing field a little.

There are also some competitions that split Preliminary along similar lines or even into three groups: no axel no doubles, axel but no doubles and the standard Prelim that allows axels and up to two doubles. It's all to give skaters at those most common levels places to compete against their peers.

At the competitions who do split the levels, the judges are generally instructed to take deductions if skaters perform elements that are not allowed in that group. The problem there is that a skater who does an axel in a no-axel group generally has enough skills to make up for the points deducted and can still medal, which doesn't seem fair to the skaters who followed the rules.

Hard-nose that I am, I've lobbied that skaters who do elements expressly forbidden should be disqualified or placed last no matter how good the rest of their skating is, but I've been told that that's too harsh and will most likely emotionally scar the child for life.

I think that if you do an axel in an event where the title actually SAYS "NO AXELS" you're okay DQ'ing them, lol.

A penalty is enough for other instances where they do something that's above the restricted level. I'm thinking of Basic Skills skaters though - they're working on a flip during lessons, but their program only has a half-flip ...oops... they did a single by mistake.

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Ok...I'm not sure I'm actually following. But I'll put in my input. As far as kids and other skaters needing an Axel (or for that matter ANYTHING) to move up. I think they should also be looking at how GIFTED each kid is. If a kid is not even gifted enough (or for that matter not even CAPABLE at all to even ever DO an Axel. Or any other move. Then they should be just moving them up for what they CAN do at that time,and if the kid or skater get's an Axel or any other move in the long-run. Let them get it at their own pace. Just like everyone else...so skaters learn quicker then others. Some may never learn moves. BTW. what's the difference between Pre and Pre-Pre?

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FSWer

Pre-Prel MITF:
Forward Perimeter Stroking
Basic Consecutive Edges
Forward Right and Left Spirals
Waltz Eight

Prel MITF:
Forward and Backward Crossovers - Circles
Consecutive Inside and Outside Spirals
Forward Power Threes
Alternating Forward 3-Turns
Alternating Backward Crossovers to Backward Outside Edges

Pre-Prel Freestyle:
Waltz Jump
Salchow
Toe Loop
1/2 Flip
1/2 Lutz
1 Foot Spin

Prel Freestyle: (1:30 Program Required)
Waltz Jump
Salchow
Loop
Flip
Waltz Jump-Toe Loop / Jump Combination
1 ft Upright spin
1 ft Backspin
Sit Spin
Connecting Steps and Extras

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Thanks for posting that. I thought that pre-pre needed higher jumps than that. I thought the half jumps were all required as singles for the test.

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

My 9 yo was the victim of this issue in the new test track. She did beginner- where only upright spins, certain combinations and half jumps and salchows ONLY allowed. There were several girls who did more- camel spins, sit spins, illegal jump combinations (loops etc). and my dd ended up 7th out of 8 even with a very very good clean skate. Some of the judges even placed the kids doing that stuff in 1st place.

My dd was very upset about how that played out and rightly so.

I understand what you're saying, but I meant students making an honest mistake in the LTS levels. I wasn't referring to the Test Track events.

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I understood that, these were definitely events where the coaches must not have known I guess. Also, I think that the fact that each competition seems to be able to adjust the rules makes it challenging for all