When we were learning spins, we learned from a progression:
learning arm positions by swinging them around....
2-foot spins from a pivot
2-foot spins from frontwards skating (usually 2 strokes)
1-foot spins from a pivot
1-foot spins from a frontwards skating
scratch spins from a 3-turn (yes, it can be done!), then from back crossovers

then we "worked" on backspins from a 2-foot spin, but only 1 person really got it and it wasn't me ;so it was backspins from a 3-turn and that didn't happen for most of us either (all I did was manage to catch the heel of my blade in my pants and rip them (my favorite ones) and fall)

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Kids always teach themselves or others to spin the wrong way. Wrong direction, wrong entry - doesn't matter. If you don't teach them three different ways to start a spin, they'll pick up one that will take you weeks to re-teach. Oh, and by the way, the coach is always wrong because the way they do it is easier so it must be right. That coach is just being mean to make me do it the hard way. (And the parents of these children wonder why they have trouble with school teachers.)

Just to keep it interesting, I teach them what I call my "Matador Spin." Sounds very intriguing, no? Glide forward on two feet on an outside curve. Keep your arms to the outside of the curve - both of them, like you're holding a bullfighter's cape. Then, yell "Ole'" and start the spin. That's the tricky part: they have to make a sharp turn on bent knees (most of them end up stopping LOL) and s-w-i-n-g their "cape" across their body to trick the pretend bull. By swinging the arms, they start the spin with their arms across their body in the direction that they want to spin. All they really have to do then is stand up straight and they'll get a few rotations.

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That's exactly the question I have....how on earth would you get a backspin out of a 2-foot spin? You'd have to flip across the hollow to the outside edge, and why on earth would you want to do that when you're just learning the crazy thing? Not to mention that instead of spinning around the same axis (as you do when you go from a 2-foot to a 1-foot), you'd have to spin around a parallel axis--like laying an 8 on its side--2-foot around one lobe, then flip across the hollow to the outside edge, to spin around the other lobe.

It just isn't making logical sense to me.

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Glad I'm not the only one confused here... LOL.

Same goes for me. I can do a one- foot spin for about 4 revolutions, but my 2 foot spin barely goes for 2.

I don't know about a two-foot to back spin as a learning experience: the two foot spin is (at best) done on the inside edges. The back spin is done on the outside edge and it really feels different because of the edge and the body position/rotation. All I think you'd learn is that this is the hard way to try this maneuver! LOL (No offense intended if it works for you!)

However, if you can already do a scratch and a back scratch, you can use the two foot to practice the TRANSITION for a change-foot spin. Check the archives -- there's some good drills for learning change-foots.

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I can still barely do a 2-foot spin, but I can do a flying camel and a combination spin with change of foot and a change of position, so what do you think?
There's just something awkward about having to keep your weight on both feet when spinning. . . But try to indulge your coach if you don't have a choice. And if you've been practicing the 1-foot spin on the sly, try doing it "by mistake" sometime when you're supposed to be doing a 2-foot spin for your coach, ha ha!

Indulging your coach can be quite an expensive courtesy though, if they're keeping you on easier elements that you don't actually need (and I'm not talkin' MITF, cause you need those) and you can do the tougher ones. It's a total extreme example, but I remember a few years ago my coach was on my case about the timing of my double loop...I'm not exactly sure what he wanted or what was wrong with it- to this day I haven't figured out why we kept going over it because I was landing them fine and they weren't cheated. Needless to say, one day I got really frustrated and went for the triple that I had been practicing on my own (shhh...I don't reccommend it) for months, and the look on his face....oh, it was classic. I enjoyed it. His argument before was "you'll never get a triple out of that double loop". After I did that triple loop, we never worked on my double loop again. (And it's still fine..it's also one of the only triples I have that do not come and go as they please.)

Moral of the story: know when to concede that your technique is lacking and that you need extra practice- and be patient and listen to your coach. But sometimes, coaches are super-nitpicky and if you feel you are being held back, speak up, and see what they say. They might agree with you and just think you didn't WANT to move on, or that you weren't capable of it. Only you can know if that's true or not.

Disclaimer: don't practice triples on your own. I have some permanent hip scarring that might not be there if I hadn't been so "adventurous".

This is what I think I meant. Thanks, Isk8NYC.

I'm severely spin challenged and my coach has learned to use all kinds of references to get me to catch on. Maybe the reference to two-foot spins only makes sense with me but I understood what she meant when I was doing it.

I can't really do a one foot spin, but I can do a 2 foot spin. I'm sure many wanted to "get on" with a one foot spin because they look real nice, however you can make a two foot spin look very cool if you hold your legs about shoulder width. Whether you learn the two foot spin or the one foot first, I believe you should be comfortable with both essentially for the reason given by blue111moon.


stardust skies
Heh, never thought of it that way. The two "sweet spots" are just behind the toepick on one foot and the middle area of your other blade. In rollerblading/skating it is much more obvious because you can see the person literally use the front wheel on one skate(toe) and the back wheel(heel) on the other skate. For both mediums the two leg is learned loooooong before a one leg spin and for both mediums, the direction of the spin makes a difference. Skating towards the inside edge of the middle/heel skate is easier. In ice skating, it's much more subtle and this probably accounts for the difficulty some people have in capturing the move.

As Isk8NYC said, keep your knees bent, just as in most other moves in ice skating. I don't know how close Isk8NYC is suggesting your knees should be because I've seen nice spins done with feet at shoulder width, but it could be bad form. In theory, the spin can be drawn out an infinitely long period of time. It has a seamless, perpetual nature that doesn't seem present in the other one-leg spins. If the spin slows down there has to be some space between the feet in order to reload the spin. Your feet (and arms) can't stay closed forever.

Many people do a two foot spin (albeit uncontrolled) when coming out of other movements like stops and turns; they just don't know it. With one foot you have less room for error. Just a slight tilt too far in one direction and you have to put your other leg down. Now you're back to a two foot spin again. It's possible to spin on one leg, then lightly drop that leg, spin on two feet, then raise one leg to get back into a one leg spin. When you see it done the trick looks fabulous, but it seems to be a rare move. Not only that but it prevents the one foot spin from being an "all or nothing". Your two foot spin can act as a cushion for any errors on an one foot spin. I suspect that would cushion the blow on negative scoring more so than falling or completely pulling out of a required spin. Suddenly, your "error" looks more like an added "artistic element" in the skate program.

When I do 2 foot spins, they're kind of cheated. I'm not fully on 2 feet. I spin mostly on one foot with the other partly touching the ice, if that makes sense. I do 1 foots better.

I've never done spins on roller/quad skates. I don't think I've even tried. It seems more scary on wheels than on blades.

Andie
You'd be surprised. Some moves on wheel skates are harder to do, but this probably isn't one of them. A two foot spin is definitely easier than a one foot in that skate medium. The fact that your edges are... how should I say... broader when you angle, makes it very difficult to take make an edge too deep. Falling on wheels is not like falling on blades. You can fall to the side, front, and back on a blade. It's hard to slip to the side on wheels, because they really don't like moving perpendicular to their rotational axis. This is not a problem with with blades. If you want to start on wheels, be my guest, but you probably don't have to learn rollerblading or rollerskating to learn how to do a two-foot on blades. It may help, but it's still not exactly the same thing.

For example, there are many ways to do a two foot spin on wheels - heel-toe, heel-heel, toe-toe, inside toe-inside toe, etc. The spin that I was refering to was a heel-toe. It's so common at rinks that you could probably see a kid doing one on a saturday night public session. You could talk to the owner of the rink and they'll show you one of the many "regulars" who can do it. Then just ask that person to demonstrate the move. The spin looks like a caricatured/exaggerated version of what you would be doing on ice. Just reduce the rotation of your ankles to make the move more subtle and you'll have it.

Well, I feel inspired!

I switched to PIC skates last April when the ice went out for summer. It's taken me a while to get up to the same level of proficiency as with ice skates, and I'm still not quite there (that's not saying much).

I've stayed away from spinning after having a hard time of it the first week, but I should definetly go back to it and try some more.

Ice won't be back in until mid-September. Will spinning on wheels translate well back to blades?

Jon

ROTFLOL Oh my gosh, two foot spins are easy. I can wip anything between 6 and 10 rotations easily out of them.

What I do for two foot spins is to make sure I bend deep enough with my knees, start with the (CCW) my left arm infront of my right shoulder and my right arm behind the middle of my back. Then I sping up and bring my arms around me still held horizontally out to square the spin and centre it and then after two revs or so, I bring in first my right arm and then my left arm. After this I've gotten 4 revs out of the spin and then I just stay in the spin for another 4 or so revs. To get out I bring my left arm out first and then the right, then I lift my left leg passing it behind the right leg and guide out of the spin on my right outside edge. This gives you a nice fast spin. Oh, while I'm spinning on my two feet, my left foot is on a slight inside forward edge and my right foot is on a slight inside back edge.

singerskate

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russiet
and
I've heard and read about these PIC skates and they're supposed to be a better alternative for ice blades than the average recreational rollerblade or even traditional quad skates. It seems like some of the ice skaters have ported over to this new figure wheel system and are pushing it forward. I've skated on and done spins on recreational rollerblades and I can tell you that the feeling of edges translates over better (more so than a traditional quad), but the ability to feel the ground under you is reduced. The PIC skate may have fixed this problem, but in my opinion the traditional quad lets you get closer to the floor than a recreational rollerblade. With an ice blade, you can feel the tiniest bumps on the rink. A rollerblade's wheels absorb most of that, so you feel disturbance only in the most chaotic of surfaces. Most of the recreational skates are made for the outdoors so they are designed to hold up to the rougher surface conditions. Once again, movement perpendicular to the axis of rotation will be difficult on a wheel system, especially if your wheels are soft and rubbery. If you can do a camel spin on your PICs then you'll be a rock star on your ice skates. Many of the adept skaters who did both ice skating and roller skating said that the advanced spins (basic one leg and up) are harder to do on roller skates. From my limited experience, I'd agree with that. This is not so in all cases. Jumps and low moves are usually going to be harder on ice skates (shoot-the-duck or low spin, waltz).

I guess I didn't really answer your question, but yeah most of the stuff you do should translate over pretty close, but it won't be exactly the same.

I am pretty much a begginner (Basic 3 Level), but I can do a 2 foot spin, but not a one foot. wierd, huh? most people are good at 1 foot, but I'm good at two foot and I can't do a one foot to save my life!

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I KNOW this is a typo.. but it certainly describes how I feel about two-foot spins!!!