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  #26  
Old 04-28-2008, 06:17 PM
Skittl1321 Skittl1321 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubletoe View Post
Wow, I never realized that! So what we really do in figure skating is an "arabesque penchee" (pronounced "air-ah-besk pon-shay")
It's probably a better way of describing it- but since alignment is SO important in ballet, and secondary in skating- I bet some ballet dancers would still take umbrage at the term.
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  #27  
Old 04-28-2008, 06:35 PM
FSWer FSWer is offline
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Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
Are you wondering what it means to keep your back arched and your chin up or what faceplant means?

Back arched and chin up are fairly self explanatory, but that means don't lean too far forward and lift your shoulders up and arch your back so that it creates a "C" like shape.

A faceplant is when you fall face forward onto the ice. The 2nd fall in this is a good example of a faceplant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-JwS...eature=related (I usually hate fall montages, but that's a good example of why you have to be careful of your weight not being too far forward in a spiral. This one is partnered, but it's the same without one- though because she had someone holding onto her she fell more on her chest than her face.)

What do you mean the long name for spiral? Are you talking about arabesque (which, IMO is not the same thing)? It's pronounced sort of like- air-ah-besk

Airabick,right? So I need to have my sholders up and leaning my head back,right?
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  #28  
Old 04-28-2008, 06:47 PM
Skittl1321 Skittl1321 is offline
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Originally Posted by FSWer View Post
Airabick,right? So I need to have my sholders up and leaning my head back,right?
air-a-besk, not bick.

You don't want to be leaning back, like tilting your head up to the sky, but you want to pull your shoulders backwards- you definetly don't want to be leaning forward.

But remember- before you can do the spiral at all, you need a really really strong one foot glide.
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  #29  
Old 04-28-2008, 07:24 PM
FSWer FSWer is offline
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Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
air-a-besk, not bick.

You don't want to be leaning back, like tilting your head up to the sky, but you want to pull your shoulders backwards- you definetly don't want to be leaning forward.

But remember- before you can do the spiral at all, you need a really really strong one foot glide.

Oh.....like Desk..right? BTW. when you do an Airabesk (aka Spiral)...why do skaters glide rather then just end up with their blades pressing down on the ice for balance?
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  #30  
Old 04-28-2008, 10:51 PM
flippet flippet is offline
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Originally Posted by FSWer View Post
Oh.....like Desk..right? BTW. when you do an Airabesk (aka Spiral)...why do skaters glide rather then just end up with their blades pressing down on the ice for balance?

Because they're moving before they go into the spiral position. It would be very difficult to hold that position on ice and be standing still--gliding actually makes it easier.
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  #31  
Old 04-29-2008, 01:34 AM
Sessy Sessy is online now
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BTW I don't think there's many falls in figure skating that, as a general category, hurt worse than falling forward over your toepicks. They can literally knock the wind out of you for a few minutes. So once you've had one of those sneak up on you out of the blue, and you still want to continue skating - you know you're tough enough for skating.

When you do a spiral or a 1-foot glide or whatever, the reason you start to glide is because you have speed to start with. Mr. Newton was a famous physicist who was sitting in his garden once, and suddenly, an apple fell on his head. That kind of hurt, so first he got angry, and then he started thinking about why everything falls down. So he formulated the law of gravity. And then he formulated the Three Laws of Motion (or actually, both together but that's a little hard to explain).
The first law of these Laws is:
an object that is moving, wants to stay moving (you know how difficult it can be to stop sometimes when you run really fast and you need to stop suddenly? Or when you suddenly brake on the bike or bus, how you almost go flying forward? That's because you, too, are an object in the sense of the Motion Laws, and you want to continue moving too.

So, when you have some speed in a certain direction, like forward, and you simply step out onto 1 foot or even 2 feet and continue to glide, you are an object in motion, cuz you're moving forward! And Newton's law says that if that's the case, you will want to remain in motion. By want he doesn't really mean what you, individually want, but what your body wants to do as part of the laws of nature. So, when you step out into a glide or a spiral, your body will continue to move. If you don't want that to happen, you need to stop somehow, for that purpose, different methods of braking were invented: hockey stop, snowplow stop, t-stop... Sometimes you see people braking a little to lose some speed before they do a difficult element, such as a jump or a series of footsteps.

So, how come it can happen that you push off forward, but you end up going in a little curve and sideways? That's newton's second law. Newton's second law says that objects will only move in the direction, in which some force - visible or not - pushes or pulls them. That's gravity: the earth's gravity is what pulls the apple down when it falls off the tree. It's what makes you fall when you trip over your toepicks. But that's not all.
Your skates have edges, inside and outside ones. Those edges, when they connect to the ice, allow for the ice to push at your skates. Now to push, you need to be pretty strong, pretty forceful right? So that push, that's a force too, even though you can't really see it - unlike if I were to give you a push, then you'd see it, and you'd probably get angry with me for pushing you. But the ice also pushes you. And because it pushes a little sideways against your skate, it changes your direction just a little. That's how come you don't change direction very suddenly on ice by yourself, but only gradually, in a curving line. So when you skate a curving like, there are (simplified) three forces working on you:
1. The force of your forward push-off, which wants to take you forward
2. The force of the sideways push the ice gives you
So this is why you go mostly forward, but also a little sideways, going in a sort of circle-like curve. And you know why you eventually stop, unless you push off again? That's the third force!
3. The force of the wind in your face, called friction (by air). :-)

And when you fall, it hurts right? That's because the ice (or the floor) hits you back! newton's third law says, there's an equal and opposite reaction to every action. So when you take the action of falling, you smack onto the ice. You think the ice likes to be smacked? Of course not, so it reacts by hitting you back just as hard as you hit it! And that's what hurts.


So to glide a perfectly straight line, you must make sure that the ice can't push you, by the way! You do this by skating an absolute flat, so neither of the edges can be pushed against by the ice. But if you want to do more complicated figures, like a 3-turn, it's good that the ice pushes you, because it helps you to turn so you don't have to work as hard! And if the ice weren't hitting you back when you fell onto it, there would be dents all over the rink from all the falling people, and it would be impossible to skate. So the ice isn't evil, you know.

Isn't physics cool?
(if you don't get any of this, please don't hesitate to ask).

Last edited by Sessy; 04-29-2008 at 02:00 AM.
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  #32  
Old 04-29-2008, 01:40 AM
ibreakhearts66 ibreakhearts66 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sessy View Post
I can do a biellmann spiral at a speed of like an inch a second, and also in blade guards off-the-ice. I'll bet I'm not the only one who can do that, either. But it's sooooo much easier if you have at least a little bit of speed, it's like the edge supports you by adding a strip on each side of the blade that keeps you from tilting. Actually I think that's what makes hydroblades off-ice harder.

BTW I don't think there's many falls in figure skating that, as a general category, hurt worse than falling forward over your toepicks. They can literally knock the wind out of you for a few minutes. So once you've had one of those sneak up on you out of the blue, and you still want to continue skating - you know you're tough enough for skating.
agreed. i hate toepicks. i was so scared to move up blades bc of the toepicks. i would do quads in coronation aces of i could. when you catch your toepick, you hit the ice before you even realize something is wrong. and, since it comes so unexpectedly, you can't really turn or brace yourself.

but speed definitely does help with spirals. you can teach yourself a spiral, like others said, but i'm not sure i would necessarily recommend it.

maybe a friend can help you learn? it would certainly make the whole process easier
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  #33  
Old 04-29-2008, 02:10 AM
Sessy Sessy is online now
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The thing that helps against catching toepicks on the ice is pulling up those toes in the skates. It also helps against falling over forward on roller skates, btw, which is even nastier than the same fall on skates (imagine all the hurt of the fall, PLUS your skin being taken off your hands, elbows, chin, knees and chest)
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  #34  
Old 04-29-2008, 09:58 AM
Ellyn Ellyn is offline
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Originally Posted by jazzpants View Post
From what little I know about ballet... you go on the toe in an arabesque off ice.
Not necessarily. The examples in Skittl1321's links show arabesques with the whole foot on the floor.
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  #35  
Old 04-29-2008, 02:16 PM
jazzpants jazzpants is offline
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Originally Posted by Ellyn View Post
Not necessarily. The examples in Skittl1321's links show arabesques with the whole foot on the floor.
Which is why I added "What little I know about ballet...." (I know pretty much NOTHING about ballet!!! And I have taken classes for a few months and am just starting back up again with my ballet/personal trainer guy... )

The reason I mentioned that is b/c when I was in group lessons, I had a former ballerina in my class and she was warned repeated by our group coach to NOT go on her toe (or else go face plant...) Thankfully, she didn't again but anyway, she did tell me that she's so used to going on the toe...
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  #36  
Old 04-29-2008, 02:57 PM
Skittl1321 Skittl1321 is offline
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Originally Posted by jazzpants View Post
Which is why I added "What little I know about ballet...." (I know pretty much NOTHING about ballet!!! And I have taken classes for a few months and am just starting back up again with my ballet/personal trainer guy... )

The reason I mentioned that is b/c when I was in group lessons, I had a former ballerina in my class and she was warned repeated by our group coach to NOT go on her toe (or else go face plant...) Thankfully, she didn't again but anyway, she did tell me that she's so used to going on the toe...
It's a good warning. Arabesques are not always done with a releve (to pointe- on the full toe, or demi-pointe- the ball of the foot) but once you learn the position they mostly are. Most ballet dancers would have the habit of going over their toepicks if they tried to take this position without thinking it through, I think.
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  #37  
Old 04-29-2008, 04:28 PM
sk8lady sk8lady is offline
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You should also be moving at a pretty good clip, unless you want to learn the way I did, by falling on your face about a bazillion times.
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  #38  
Old 04-30-2008, 01:06 PM
Helen88 Helen88 is offline
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Ohh god I've had at least thirty of those toepick falls...some hilarious to watch, others that have ended in swollen knees and bruises everywhere. I kinda fly a little when I do it...like, my chest hits the ice first...then my knees...then the rest of my body

Not to put you off or anything
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  #39  
Old 04-30-2008, 01:30 PM
Sessy Sessy is online now
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I walked around with bruised ribs and hips for a while after one of those falls. It was really sunny and hot and I was wearing a bikini. My bikini is in army camouflage colors, and my green and brown bruises matched the color perfectly. LOL!
My ribs hurt for like three months every time I laughed afterward. But somehow out on the ice i didn't feel the pain at the time.
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