You lose less blade and can sharpen just as much or as little as you like. It does take patience.

You buy the Pro-Filer for the hollow you are currently using. That is, you can buy it for 1/2", 3/8" etc. It does not change the hollow. Unfortunately, they don't make it for a 7/16" hollow, which is what I was using. I decided that a sharp 1/2" would be better than a dull 7/16", so I bought the 1/2" size.

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HAHAHA. You're being disingenuous on purpose, right? NO ONE can be that obnoxious by accident! You could not really think that "skating moms" and coaches have so much extra time on their hands that they think, "I know, I'll open a pro shop!"

In our area, we have three rinks. One is run by the city and is used primarily for hockey, so even if they could be bothered with a pro shop, which they can't, it would not have anyone in it who knew how to sharpen figure skates. They strap them in and turn the machine on and hope it turns out all right. Good-bye, toepicks. The second rink is run by the university and is used primarily for hockey. They do not bother with a pro shop either, since the university has a Division I men's team and their sponsors and boosters provide them with everything they need. Supposedly there is one guy there who might know how to sharpen figure skates but I think he is apocryphal. The third rink in our area is privately owned and guess what it's primarily used for? HOCKEY. They actually do have a pro shop which sells some hockey stuff. They could care less about figure skating as you can tell by the sign posted on the plexiglass which is a lovely picture of a figure skater doing a layback which above it says, 'Figure skaters, no jumping or spinning.' (Not that I have anything against hockey since I make a decent chunk of change off running Learn to Play and refereeing, and I have a kid who plays, but still.)
THAT'S how a rink could not have a decent pro shop, guy!! Gee whiz!

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You miss 100% of the shots you never take.--Wayne Gretzky

We are way off-topic, and this won't interest most people, but it is the actual edge shape rather than the hollow (which to some extant only applies to the center of the blade and doesn't touch the ice) that is different. I haven't looked at the edge with a microscope, but this is true as near as I can guess:

For machine or hand sharpening:

The radius of hollow depends on the sharpening wheel or stone. With a machine sharpening tool whose wheel rotates across the blade's width, the wheel's radius determines the hollow of the cut. With one that rotates along the blade's length, it's cross section becomes the cross section of the blade, and determines the hollow, and is theoretically arbitrary. More radiuses are available for machine grinders. Though if my guess is right about what happens at the edge, the radius of hollow of hand ground blades is less important, because the hollow-ground part of the blade doesn't touch the ice.

The best sharpeners first use a course sharpening wheel or cyclinder, then a fine one, to make cleaner edges.

Brushing the edge upwards with a flat stone (on the inverted blade), brushing from the mount towards the part of the blade that touches the ice, cleans it up some more, and straightens the edge. (Most sharpeners bend the edge a little towards the center, which may be stronger, but is effectively less sharp, so I don't.) (Some sharpeners brush sideways rather than towards the ice, which makes no sense to me.)

A lubricant/coolant fluid also makes cleaner edges. Water does better than oil, but would boil away at the higher machine sharpening speeds, so machine sharpening people use oil.

(High speed) Machine sharpening:

Because of the high speed, the ends of that arc (along the sides of the blade) are less clean, if the sharpener isn't very careful. The angle of that arc with respect to the sides of the blade determines the effective sharpness, an angle determined by the radius of hollow. If they clean it up well enough, the edge is almost infinitesmally thin at the very tip, but widens close enough to the tip that part of the blade in the ice is thick, and that effects how sharp it feels. This means the blade has a fairly blunt cut into the ice. Unless you choose a very small radius of hollow that is just over twice the blade width to make it thin deeper, but then the whole blade wears away very fast, and each sharpening wastes a lot of metal.

Hand Sharpening:

When you sharpen by hand, using the cylindrical stone, the grinding surface moves more slowly, so everything should be cleaner, and there is time for the metal to be reshaped a bit, instead of just being ground away. In the middle of the arc the shape is truly cyclindrical, but metal is redistributed towards the ends (i.e., towards the sides of the blade, producing a very narrow (thin) lip on each side of the arc (i.e., along the sides of the blade). After being straightened into an edge and cleaned by the flat stone, that edge cuts into the ice better, because it is longer and thinner. The hand-file cut probably looks more like a piece of thin sheet metal extending from the edge, so the thin-ness extends further.

Of course that wears away just as fast as using a very small radius of hollow would on a machine grind. But you can re-sharpen it using less metal, because you mostly reshape rather than grind away the blade.

I don't think it is all that tough to use. I'm a complete klutz. Give any normal person an hour or two, and an ice rink to test their experiments, and they will figure out what to do. Once figured out, a few minutes/blade.

I just think it could be better. Specifically:

The handle is opaque metal and blocks seeing the edge you are sharpening.

The bolts that hold the stone inside the handle also make it hard to bring the stone right next to the toe pick, so you either round the first tooth off (bad news) or have to tilt the stone in an awkwards way. I may try removing those bolts, and sliding the stone next to the end, and may try just using the stone without the handle, but each kit costs $90 (for one radius of hollow), so I haven't yet.

(The toe pick and the rest of the blade blocks the ice from touching the part of the blade right next to the toe pick, so that part of the blade doesn't matter, but I think the bolt still blocks too much, especially since everything is opaque and I can't see the blade underneath it.)

There is one problem that is unique to Ultima Matrix (interchangeable runner) blades: The sides of the handle get in the way of the Ultima Matrix (interchangeable runner) mount system, because of the metal side pieces that reinforce the runner. That means that to do a good job, you have to demount, sharpen, then remount. The Marix bolts are very soft metal, and you have to turn them with a very small hex key, which means you gradually damage the head of the bolt as you turn it. In one case I damaged the head enough that no hex key could turn it, and I had to hammer in a cross point screwdriver point instead. Maybe that's why Ultima has abandoned Matrix - the bolts were too trouble prone. They should have used one of the less prone non-proprietary mounts hockey skates use for their interchangeable blades. Since most of you don't use Matrix blades, that problem is irrelevant to you.

I can too be that obnoxious!

I've seen moms who gab or sew dresses while their kids skate. Why not sharpen other kids blades during some of the same time?

(some rinks won't let them. but this is fine print and you won't see it)

Told you I could be obnoxious.


Obviously, I spent some time figuring out how to do everything what I consider to be right, and got some help from Don Giese and other pros. But I've given you everything I learned. So did someone else on this board. And a few other people on the WWW. And elsewhere on this board, I've talked about enhancing the sweet spot while sharpening too, which makes it easier to spin and twizzle, because it is more convex there, and you can feel the desired spot. You could do it by machine, but my description was by hand.

Oh Query ! I can see some skate sharpening mom ruining the blades of her dear daughter's rival.

I looked into both skate sharpening and proshops last year, and found that the initial cost investment in both machinery and stock made it prohibitive. I did convince the local hockey guy to change his machine over to figure one night a week, and that's where most of the girls go. In regards to proshops, it got too difficult because there was a shop close enough to our town, and the suppliers didn't want to split their business. I thought a little competition in the proshop business would be good, but then the economy tanked.

Gosh Query, that was waaaay too long to quote really , but I do want to comment on some of what you said.

Our Association has been prevaricating for a long time about buying a machine and getting someone trained to use. Hasn't happened yet. I had my Phantoms totally ruined in one 'sharpening' by the guy at our rink, never again!

When I got my matrix freestyles, I bought a Profiler. Because they didn't offer 7/16" I went for 3/8" (6/16"?) I have never had to send my runners away for sharpening and am so glad I now have control over my sharpenings.

I like my blades SHARP, (I can't get the blunt thing either) though not at the expense of changing my ROH. I sharpen my blades when they need it, and that can vary to a quick touch up after 2 weeks, or a more serious workout at 4 weeks, depending on what I've been doing and ice conditions. I have to say the sharpening feels different when I run my finger on the blade, not as sharp as I have had from machine sharpening. Yet I get far better grip & rip with it.

It takes me less than 1/2 hour for the full workout. I use 2 layers of masking tape as the matrix runners are somewhat narrower than other blades. My only criticism is that it would be good to have some sort of handles to make it easier and to give more control. Have thought about knocking something up myself but haven't had the chance.

After 9 months of doing my own blades, I think I've got pretty good at it. I am seriously thinking of offering the service to other figure skaters at our rink. I sure could use the money ! But as Canadian Adult pointed out, I don't think I would sharpen the blades of anyone I was competing against, just in case

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Katz

Saved by Synchro!
I was over it, now I'm into it again !

Being in engineering and also having considerable machine shop experience, I did not like the way the only good sharpener handled my blade (removing way more material than necessary) so I learned everything I could about sharpening, a great deal from a figure-skating engineer who produced one of the only scientific papers on the "art" of skate blades (http://www.iceskateology.com/Skateol...gy_Manual.html) and built my own machine.

Now nobody touches my blades except me! I also sharpen for a few coaches and a select few serious competitive skaters - I don't have time to do everybody - and I charge substantially more than the "pro shops" because it takes me about 4 times longer to get it 'just right' and my consumables cost is much higher.

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

Ok I’m sorry. I went too far.

First, I should have said "skating parent or guardian" or something. "Skating mom" was sexist and inappropriate. And if I think anyone could do it, why am I unemployed? The answer is, anyone can’t. I know nothing about selling retail, I've never fit boots in a shop, or used motor-driven skate sharpening tools (which are needed if the blades are too flat, or you need to make major changes). I can't afford a big investment. In short, I don't have the background and resources. It wouldn't be ethical to take what pros I respect have shown me when I asked questions in their shops, and use it to compete against them. And there are many pro shops in my area already. It makes more sense where there isn’t a shop within driving distance.

Some but not all skating parents, and some coaches, would have the right backgrounds, time and resources I've seen a few dressmakers design, fit and sell dresses to people in the lobbies of rinks where there is no pro-shop to compete with, and where rink management allows it. I’m just suggesting some people could do the same thing with sharpening, if the rink allows it, and if they wanted to.

The problem of working on a competitor’s equipment never occurred to me. It obviously happens in regular pro shops too, when a skater or skater's parent works in a pro shop. Same potential problems applies to the dressmakers, or to coaches with who compete or with children who compete. All any business person can do is to be open and honest, revealing the possible conflict of interest, so the customer can make their own decisions.

Most of the sharpeners here keep their equipment at their own home, rather than at the rink. There is at least one peripatetic sharpener, who travels with his machine, but the others all have their own machines, often in their garages. My own coach, after years of talking about it, has now bought a machine and I finally trusted him with my blades, and he did a great job.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Hi SkatEn, I have SkateMate, works simlar to ProFilers. However, these will never replace a machine! Nor does it work as well as the stones your Chinese coach has ;-)

As for Query's question about how any place can not have a pro shop when there are skaters... well, the number of skaters here really doesn't justify the overheads of a physical store, or even keeping stock. That's why I set up shop online, and work mainly on per-order basis.

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