BEND YOUR KNEES!!

Geez, you'd think I'd have that down after all these years, but it keeps coming back. 99% of the time if I'm struggling w/ something, it's because I'm not bending my knees enough (which also then makes me break forward at the waist, so it's a 2-parter).

I'd been struggling w/ FI double 3's for literally years. I passed them in moves, but they were pretty 'jerry-rigged', and not really under control. Coach has me do them a lot as an exercise, but done w/ different timing/free leg positions than the moves pattern. And I just, just, just couldn't do them. Finally today that's ALL we worked on. And the WHOLE issue was using my knees and therefore keeping my back straight going into & out of every turn. Also majorly using the knee bend out of the last turn to check the rotation & keep everything controlled. And suddenly---it's so easy! What was my problem? Ha ha--not that simple and still not always correct, but when I do it right, it really is very easy & there's no struggle at all.

It seems the higher I get, the more important it is to work on basics, basics, basics!

and

TIMING IS EVERTHING

You can't just bend your knees, you have to do it at the right time too.

Congratulations on getting it perfectly! I never will, just too old already.

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That is the main thing I have struggled with since I started not so long ago. I always think I am bending my knees until it's pointed out to me that I'm bending them nowhere near enough. As as I bend them more, whatever I'm struggling with usually feels a million times better.

I think I should buy my coach a hat which says BEND YOUR KNEES and make him wear it during my lessons

Clare

Nope, doesn't fit. It's still 42.

Seriously, you're absolutely correct. Knee bend is the key to edges, posture, and control.

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Actually, I have found that bending your knees and learning to wait are the key to everything. Of course I lost my key....opps!

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You were inside my head when you typed this, right?!! LOL
"Bend the knees" is good. Even better, for me anyway, is "bend the ankles." You can't bend the ankle without bending the knee, and it helps keep the knee pressed over the toes as it bends.

Actually, it's BEND YOUR ANKLES.

If you do so you will bend your knees, but you won't break at the waist.

Rob

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All the same, I find it hard to bend at the ankles and still keep my weight over the back of my skates, the way my coach wants.... sigh....

All the same, the Fiesta Mohawk is a lot less evil if you bend your knees as you go into it.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Same with spread eagles. For newbies that think that they will never be able to do spread eagles because they don't have open-enough hips, they will still be able to do them, guaranteed - but less elegantly - by bending those knees really good. That compensates for any lack of open hipped-ness and still enables them to easily go 180 degrees with the skates. Knee bend....can be your friend.

You are soooooo right, phoenix!

S xxx

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"

The answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything is....
BEND YOUR KNEES!!

Gee, and I thought the answer was 42!

(a little Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference, for those of you who are going "huh?")

That is just not true. If you have open hips, you don't know! BTW, I'm not a newbie.

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Do you mean that you can't do spread eagles?

Aw, all the Arthur Dents of the forum beat me to 42. Ah well. : )

And never will, although I can manage a very small half circle on inside edges. My knees are too far gone to do a squat eagle (still could not get 180'), but I have enough turn in that if I ever got up the courage to work on it, I could probably do a pigeon eagle. You also don't have a clue how hard lack of turn out can make F Mohawks, especially FO, but even FI. BTW, once at Klingbeils I met a young competitive skater who had just passed Sr. moves, and she also has turn in, and also cannot do a spread eagle and also found F Mohawks difficult.

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Thanks for posting this Phoenix. It has been my experience there are terms and phrases that are so overused by coaches they lose their effectiveness. "Bend your knees" is one of them. It is as if I have heard the same song over and over and over and over again and it becomes background noise (If I hear Pussycat Dolls one more time I am going to hurl!) I hear "bend your knees" and go "yeah, yeah, yeah, I know... whatever." Another one is "Check!" Could someone please remind me what that really means again? And then....(insert2001 Space Odyssey theme music here). When I see my skating on video I realize. !!! Oh dear! I should really bend my knees more. It seems like "Feeling" knee bend, "Saying" Knee bend and "Seeing" knee bend (as well as ankle bend, checking, etc...) are totally on opposite sides of the spectrum! why does it seem so hard to get it all together?

As far as bending at the waist, I sit at a desk all day and I am not very conscious of my posture. I do find myself slouching a lot and not sitting straight. 8 hours a day, I would say that bending at the waist is what my muscles are used to and it is difficult to break this bad habit. With all that poor muscle memory, there is not a wonder why I have to be over conscious about keeping my back straight. *sigh*

I bend my knees quite nicely, trouble is, they stay bent and the free leg just wont straighten no matter how much I am told and no matter how I try, I'm going to try a lighter boot next time to see if that works because I used to be able to straighten the leg in my first set of boots but unfortunately, basic boots dont last long.

hmmm....yeah...well, maybe if you tried a lot already, then maybe something's up with that. I can suggest to try off-ice practice though, that's only if you really wanted to defeat this move...(ie that's if you really want to be able to do it a bit). My best suggestion is to practise off-ice on a backwards one-foot glide. You're probably good at doing backwards 1 foot glides, at least on one or the other leg maybe, right? So this is still off-ice, at home...using a chair to prop yourself up. Then pretend you're riding on the gliding skate (going backwards) on an OUTSIDE edge. Bend the knees real good too (that's only if your knee gets better...because you said you had knee problems right?). So a backwards one foot glide on outside edge, with the free leg up close to your gliding skate. And then try to put the free leg down 180 degrees, with knees bent as far down as you want. If you can do it off-ice, after lots and lots of conditioning and training the feet to get used to that position and feeling, then guaranteed you'll be able to do it on-ice. Although, at first you may be able to do it with shoes on, and may have trouble turning out a bit with the extra heights of the skate blades while on the ice.....eventually, with perserverance, you will manage to get it. But I guess the test is to ensure you can get a 180 degrees off-ice, even if it takes a year of conditioning.

There are really and truly some people who will never get it, like my coach. She cannot turn out and there is nothing that she can do to stretch, etc to make it happen. She can do a pigeon eagle and perfect step downs on back inner loops without a problem, though. Since she knows this, she herself doesn't do them and she has developed the cheater bauer to simulate it. From a distance, it *looks* like a bauer.

If people feel pain attempting to get into the position, either on or off the ice, they should STOP because they may be doing damage to their knees, hips, groin, etc.

I guess, maybe some people are not 'meant' - just not built a certain way - to do certain moves. For example, in my case I can get a good position on a spiral and probably with lots of practice will get an Ina Bauer (I'm starting to get the turn-out), but I seem to have enormous problems with shoot the ducks

Last weekend I managed to do two shoot-the-ducks on the floor (but not get up again), but there's no way I can get even close on the ice.

I was starting to really get despondent about this, now I figure oh well, if I don't get a shoot-the-duck it's not the end of the world, I have other abilities and guess I should at least be pleased about this.

S xxx

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"

That's definitely sensible. That's right. If there is pain, it's not a good idea to force that issue. Same with those that can do spread eagles with bent knees but try to force some with unbent knees. That could be bad for the knees....or eventually bad for the knees.

Don't forget, Award, that many of us are adults in our 50s and older, and adult bodies simply don't adapt the way child bodies do. I doubt I'll ever have a spread eagle either; I can't even turn out enough to do a decent drag (lunge), but the Husband has a great one.

And my coach, who did skate as a kid, has never been able to do a decent hydroblade or teapot (shoot-the-duck, in American). He does, however, have a perfectly respectable sit-spin! And great turnout, which is why we are having issues at the moment, as he can't really understand that some people don't. His wife, who has never had much turnout, is a better coach for some skills, and he is for others.....

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

I can't even get down low enough on carpet to do a teapot so I can't imagine I'll ever be able to do it on ice, if/when the time comes for me to try.

Clare

You've presumably already done "little man" or "mushrooms", where you squat down as low as possible on two feet? Teapots are merely an extension of that. Mind you, I can't do them very well, so.....

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Yup, and I don't even get down too low on 2 feet!

Clare