My brother (and I really) have been struggling to pass the current level at skate school because we haven't been able to master the backwards 1 foot glide.

We can both do it on one leg, and not the other. Coach told me last night to bring my feet in closer together, but even at their closest (physically impossible for me to bring them any closer) they are still at least 6 inches apart... could this really be what's stopping me?

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

If you can't get your feet closer than that with a two-foot glide, you're waaay on the inside edges. How can you then pick up your foot on either side, unless you can miraculously pull the skating foot underneath and stand on the flat?

Can you get the blades adjusted? How do the skates fit?


Just a technique comment: lots of people try to push while lifting the feet for the one-foot glides. It's much easier if you put your feet together, bend your knees, and lift one knee. Don't worry about lifting the foot - that'll come naturally since it's attached to your knee. Try to just shift your weight and lift - no toe push or little quickie step.

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Learning to skate (or glide) backwards can be very unnerving, as I remember only too well ! When I was at that stage, I used the following references, and still do when tackling new elements. Some ideas ...

Examine your forward skating, and watch your technique carefully. You should notice your weight move comfortably over each foot/blade as you begin to glide.
Gliding is only extended stroking, so if you are stroking backwards, then try 'breathing' between each stroke, to extend the time on one foot.
Most of us have a strong side and a weak side. Practice on the weak side does take more time and attention.
Remember those chants ... stay soft, bend knees !

good luck.

Added comment - just noticed, pretty well circled the globe with three posts here ! Woohoo !

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Sorry I don't understand your first point above? Are you saying I've got my feet too close together or not far enough apart?

*scratches head* The thing is that I personally can do backward stroking quite well. It's just the backward one foot glide where you have to stand upright and lift the other foot off the ice ... I can do it when I'm stroking - I'm not sure if it's because of the placement of my feet like how my heels are more turned in or something?

I've only had the opportunity to skate in my new skates a handful of times before I injured myself last year (non-skating related) and couldn't skate at all... but the placement of the blade seemed to be okay.

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

Practice, practice, practice. You need to strengthen up your weaker leg and ankle so that it will bear weight. Do laps round the rink just on your weak foot, with little pushes from the other foot. You can also try standing at the barrier, facing barrier with palms on top, lifting feet alternately and trying to hold the position.

The other thing is efficiency of movement. Your bodyweight must be right over the skating foot. Head, hip and skate must be in a vertical line, with the knee bent. You shoud be able to sit down a little into the glide. Chin must not be dropped. Generally speaking, knees should point in same horizontal direction as toes. Do not drop one shoulder.

Watch out for your toepicks. When skating backwards, bodyweight should be towards front of blade under sole of foot, but not as far forward as toepicks. (Conversely, when skating forwards, bodyweight is towards back of blade, under heel of foot.)

Edited to add: you won't get too far skating on floopy ankles. As ISK8nyc said, make sure you are not flopping onto an inside edge of the blade. Try to keep weight fairly central on blade (if anything, very very fractionally to the outside).

I am forever telling my coach that my feet won't go any closer together, to which he invariably replies that they would if I bent my knees more. Sigh....

It does make a difference, though - if you think about it, it's a simple matter of physics. If your feet are together underneath you, your centre of gravity is straight down, so it's a matter of picking up one foot. Whereas if your feet are too far apart, you have to shift your weight quite a bit to get it over your skating foot, and that makes it far harder than it need be.

I remember spending a good month trying to skate backwards on one foot, usually using the barrier to push myself along so I could at least move! I think what finally helped was that the then CD used on public sessions included the song "Magic moments", and somehow, that was exactly the rhythm I needed to get it!

Then, of course, they made me start doing dance-style pushes, and I've been struggling ever since! Sigh....

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Mrs Redboots
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Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

This may or may not be the issue, but try to bring your body to be centered over the skating foot.

That means your bent knee is over the toe of your skate, the belly button will be over your knee, and your back is arched enough to place your chest over your belly buton. All lined up.

My backward one foot glides are still very hit and miss but at least I always know what I'm doing wrong, even if I don't manage to fix it every time. My bad habit is not bending enough and tending to try and lift my whole leg up (my coach is always asking why I'm lifting my leg as though it weighs more than my entire body!) rather than just extending the leg in front of me.

Clare

You wait until you start dance, Clare - he'll be on at you to lift your leg then, I can tell you! Or at least extend it more, more, more... My problem is I lift it all right, but it will go out to the side, which is a Bad Thing as it pulls you off your edge.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

What Isk8NYC is saying is that being on the inside edges is what is keeping your feet so far apart. To see if you can get your weight over the centers of the blades on both skates while going backwards try this exercise. Face the wall, toes a few inches away from it and feet as close as possible but not touching. Make sure feet are parallel by sliding skates forward and back a few times. Bend the knees and push off the wall with fists. Be sure you are not bent over at the waist. Keep knees down and let arms ride out in front of you as you push off. If you can stay off your toepicks (don't lean forward or look down), you should get a good enough and fast enough glide (after a little practice) to feel yourself on the flats of your blades. That is, you should not be on either the inside or outside edges. If you can do this, then try lifting one foot as the next part of the exercise.

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That isn't unusual. Most people have one "good foot" and one not-so-good foot early on.

It is not where your feet are relative to each other but where your skating foot is relative to your centre of gravity. Unless your skating blade is directly under your centre of gravity, you CAN NOT glide in a straight line. If there are rubber mats just off the ice at your rink, try balancing on your "off foot" just to get the feeling for where the blade needs to be. Throw in a little knee bend and you have got your back glide position.


For most people, it is easier to get over the blade on their "good foot" and harder with the "off foot" and I think much of it has to do with the fear of getting onto a back outside edge with the not-so-good foot - we just don't feel as confident on that edge and it is scary!

What helped me get into my back glides (not that long ago) was just backward stroking and trying to lengthen the glide between each stroke ever so slowly and also stepping from one foot to the other as quickly as I could to increase my confidence in the weight transfer.

(For me, my left foot is my "off foot" and LBO's still make more more nervous than anything else.)

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

that's the thing DBNY, I don't think it's my edges keeping my feet that far apart. They don't GO any closer together phsically even when I have no skates on...

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

The same thing happens in a lesson if one tells one's coach that one wants to work on power, especially going forward. (So that led to a lesson chock full of hard stroking and hard pushes around the end patterns and, yes, extend the free hip and make sure it's lifted...more...more...more.....and then once more around...and once more around, etc. etc.) I knew I was doing something different than my usual weenie crossovers when I felt all sorts of muscles in my sides and glutes that don't normally get used during crossovers!

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AW1, do you have knock-knees when you don't have skates on? That is, are your knees and thighs close together but your feet are far apart? (That's what it sounded like in your reply to DBNY, but I wasn't sure.... if that's the case, then maybe that's contributing to your difficulties bringing the feet closer?)

Or, when you're on the ice, are your knees bent and pressed together, making it difficult to bring the feet together? (Sorry if it sounds like I'm asking so many questions--since we can't see you on the ice, we're trying to envision what you're describing.)

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Yes that's exactly the case. My knees will be touching but my ankles will be about 6 inches apart. I have been like that my whole life.

I just noticed when I stand that if I try to put my feet any closer together than that, that my feet actually roll to the outer side, so wouldn't that be pushing me onto an outside edge rather than inside?

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

With your knees bent, can your feet & knees touch?

And can you do a proper ballet plie, with your knees tracking out over your toes? You need to get your knees in alignment over your feet, or a lot of things in skating are going to be very difficult and put undue strain on the knees.

And, like me, you reckon you'd infibulate yourself if you brought your feet any closer together! I have a similar problem - but my feet do touch together if I bend my knees properly, and if I focus on making them touch at every step (as ice-dancers have to do).

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Yes BUT they are very rolled outwards. Basically the inside of my foot is not even on the floor if I do this, so it's not overly stable.

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

Yes I can do a plie but my heels are not pointing together when I'm trying to do a backwards one foot glide. Incidentally I think this is why I learned to do a mohawk very easily, but I haven't learnt a 3 turn yet

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

Orthotics and custom boots? Yikes! (Depending on how deep your pockets and conviction are)

My boots are already custom boots - I couldn't get standard boots wide enough

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08