Our rink has a star skater who is working on her triples. Her coach always yells at her in every lessons. Sometimes she cries and refuses to continue but her mom makes her to do it. This afternoon in a FS session, my daughter (a lefty) was trying to set up her double loop. This skater and her coach, who was following her and yelling, skated very fast toward my daughter. My daughter saw her and aborted her jump while the star skater also decided to abort. Her coach then started to follow my daughter for 2/3 of the rink and yelled at her. Basically saying they have the right of the way and she needs to watch...blah blah.

I was taping my daughter at that time because she has trouble with the double loop. We reviewed the tape and cannot see anything wrong with my daughter so I told our coach. Our coach said that just half hour ago, her other student who was in a lesson, also got yelled by this coach. So our coach was upset and call this coach to leave a message.

Now...I regretted ever mentioning this to our coach because this coach may do or say something to me next time me or my daughter is the on ice. If he does say something rude, what shall I respond? I am getting very nervous about what will happen next week....

By the way, I have praised this star skater in front of her mom several times before. I enjoy watching her. Her mom is very pushy to her own child but she is a nice person otherwise. I hope this accident will not cause any tension between us either.

Thank you for any suggestions.

Remind him that you are spending your hard-earned money on your child's ice time and coaching, and your child is no less important than his student and he needs to be respectful of others on the ice. And that you feel someone disciplining your child (who was not misbehaving) is uncalled for, that is to you and your child's coach to do.

Really, if a coach has an issue with a skater on the ice, they should be going to the child's coach and discussing it. Not yelling at the kid.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

That coach was out of line. Bullies are bullies, as adults on ice rinks or as mean kids school playgrounds. It was not okay for him to berate your child that way and you were within your rights to complain. Sounds to me like that coach (and maybe the other skater's mom) are basically teaching the girl to dislike skating. What a shame.

The coach was defintiely out of line. Is there a skating director at your rink you could mention this to? We all get in each other's way accidentally sometimes and that coach had no business yelling at your daughter.

I do think you might be overthinking this though. Like I said, every skater will get in someone's way by accident at some point. Happens all the time. The other girl's mother shouldn't even give it a second thought. And if the coach does say something to you, I'd just politely tell him it was an accident and your daughter is sorry and that's that. Don't be nervous. If you won't see him until next week, he'll have probably forgotten all about it. This isn't a huge deal.

__________________
"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

I have somewhat of a childhood "trauma" with a pushy teacher yelling at me causing me in the end to essentially quit what I was doing at the time, so frankly I'm surprised at just how civil you and your kid handled this!

Thank you all for the suggestions. I would like to avoid any confrontation or argument so if the coach does say something to me, I will repeat what Stormy said.

But in the back of my head, I feel a little sad because my daughter has been yielding to this coach's students all the time, even when my daughter was in lessons. My daughter does not have much confidence. Every time she saw them coming, she aborted her jumps. My daughter's coach was already frustrated with us yielding all the time. Now my daughter will have even less confidence to deal with the situation.

What shall I tell my daughter?

Tell the coach to be polite and if he or she has an issue, to take it up with both you and your child's coach.

You also need to talk to the skating director.

Yelling like that is not a good way to coach, and it's certainly OUT OF LINE to yell at someone else's student/child, when those persons are in the rink for you to confront.

Also, there's a difference between yelling and being obnoxious and yelling at the same time.

If the coach is yelling stuff like "PUSH!" "YOU'RE SLOWING DOWN!" "CHECK!"... things of that nature... I don't see an issue with them yelling. If they're yelling stuff like "STOP BEING A QUITTER!" "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!" "THAT WAS CRAP/REDICULOUS/STUPID/etc." then even I'd step in and say something because no one deserves to be treated that way.

Any parent who allows their child to be borderline abused by a coach has issues, as well. Any parent who participates in it is certainly crazy. That can turn them off of the sport, and eventually morph the situation into something like the child being forced to do something they don't want to do, which isn't humane - IMHO.

Has your daughter's coach spoken with this other coach to ask him/her to have his/her skaters keep out of your daughter's way during lessons? Because it sounds like the first step if this person's students are always in your daughter's way as well.

Two skaters on an otherwise empty sheet of ice should be capable of managing to avoid each other and that's exactly what happened. No one collided, the lesson really wasn't interrupted, and your daughter yielded properly to the skater on lesson. The other skater's coach interrupted her own lesson by wasting the time berating your daughter.

Be the bigger person and just pretend it didn't happen. Your daughter did nothing wrong. If you let it drop, everyone else will since it seems you're the ones in the right.

It does sound like the other coach is venting because she's frustrated with the skater. Save a copy of the video. I hope you caught the coach wasting her time and breath on camera. If anything does come of it, from the coach, the other skater, or her mother, just offer to put the video on "America's Funniest Home Videos" or send a copy to the skating director and the PSA along with a complaint.

__________________

I really appreciate the above advices. Thank you all very much!! I feel a lot calmer and peaceful now.

My daughter's coach did not ask the other coach to share the ice. I guess no body dares to. There is a pair team in the FS session and they got interrupted by this coach sometimes when they did their run-through. There are usually 20 skates on the ice, but when the star skater sets up her jumps with coach yelling, everyone gets out of the way quickly. Like everyone else, I did not take the matter seriously because I thought this coach has a bad temper so I preferred to stay away. Until he picked on my daughter....

Just want to say thank you again. I can sleep better tonight!

Our rink has a head coach to report to on issues such as these, if you have one or even the rink manager I suggest you put it to them, the coach has no fear of you or anyone else by the sounds of it but could risk his job if he upsets someone in authority too many times.

Coaches having different styes of coaching. Some are more user friendly than others in my opinion. As a parent and skater I don't like the yelling and degrading type of teaching. This is a parental and student choice though. As a skater who shares the ice with someone who coaches like this occasionaly I make the choice to leave when I can. If I can't, I just buck up and avoid them. As an adult I can do this. If I had a child who had been grumped at I would speak to their coach. (skater) If, I didn't still feel good about things I would talk to the director. I'm sorry this happened to your child and wish you both courage. No matter how hard a skater tries accidents and close calls happen. Skaters and coaches should know this.

Teresa

May I encourage you to make sure your daughter understands the coach was in the wrong? She needs to understand her actions are OK.

First, recognize that some kids want to discover the boundaries, and others have something resembling attention deficit disorder, and a certain degree of strictness is the only way to keep their attention. When I volunteered to help with group lessons at a local rink, being strict went completely against my nature, but the method worked well with those kids, and some of the best volunteers were school teachers who understood the need.

But, based on your description, I agree with the others - if the coach keeps misbehaving, the figure skating director, head coach or whatever should be informed. A coach who is abusive in obvious ways may be abusive in other ways, and is unstable and dangerous. Rink management should recognize the risk, both to their customers, and to their own legal liability.

You are much more likely to succeed if you don't go to the appropriate person alone. Find other adults or near adults who agree and go together. That they agree is a good sign you are in the right.

Don't lose your temper. Stay calm and collected, simply make sure management understands you are somewhat concerned that the coach may pose a danger to the coach's own students, as well as other skaters, and that they make skating at the rink a less pleasant experience. A conscientious figure skating director, etc., will go out and watch the coach in action, and make his/her own judgment. Be sympathetic to the figure skating director - this sort of problem must be one of the least pleasant aspects of his/her job.

If it gets back to the coach, and he/she loses his/her temper as a result of such discussions, that will make the coach's emotional instability completely clear to management.

This could impact the coach's ability to make a living, and shouldn't be done lightly. But it is important for the safety of all concerned.

But above all, reassure your own daughter.

__________________
Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

Not being condescening here, but if "Star Skater's" on program, she has the right of way-but yelling at you was unprofessional.

Next time take a camcorder or use your cellphone video(?) to the rink. Tape your daughter during her session, start to finish. If that coach either yells at, intimidates, retaliates or follows your daughter-you've got physical evidence that he can't dispute. If he sees you taping his obnoxious behavior he may back off. If he talks to you in a threatening way - document and file a complaint with either the Head Coach and/or management-certified, receipt requested.

If he continues his dysfunctional behavior-Email a letter to PSA, include his full name/rink, scanned copies of your letter to the Head Coach and/or management, and attach your tape. His behavior is not ethical.

There's absolutely no excuse for a "pro" to yell at anyone (except, as someone stated, i.e. to their student: "Keep your head up-don't look down!" "Bend your knees!" That's being constructive. This "outta-my way" attitude is rude. If/when a "pro" yells in a belittling way, he's not representing the skating community, the rink and other pros in a good light. Bad enough enrollment's low due to the economy.

Suggestion: your daughter's a lefty, as I am, which means we jump clockwise. When Miss "Star Skater's" at the other end of the rink, could she do her jumps at the opposite end?

Don't be intimidated by this "pro." YOu and your daughter have every right to be there, including the fact she's a CW jumper. Stand your ground. I'll bet the minute he sees you taping him, he'll get the message.

Good luck

I don't know what that coach will do next week after receiving our coach's message. If he does nothing, I will be happy to let the whole thing go away.

Our coach told my daughter that if this happens again, she will communicate with the other coach right away. Our coach also advices me to keep the video.

I usually go running on a track field next to the rink when my daughter is in FS session. But I will stay inside watching (and maybe taping) from now on.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm not a competitor. But as just a Skater,I can say that it sounds more like a case of an almost 2-way colission. Does your Rink have the rules for Freestyle sessions posted? If so,you may be able to check to see if correct rules were being followed. As if your Daughter IS a Freestyler herself. She has a right to be there as well,and both skaters just need to watch out for each other. Does the tape show if both skaters were at least watching out? BTW. what has the mother of this Star skater and skater heself said when you've praised this skater? Maybe you could try seeing if the star skater will give your Daugter some tips and work into a friendship with this skater's coach AND her mom.

__________________
FSWer

It's this part that really worries me. If you briefly yell at someone to try to avoid a collision that you can't otherwise prevent - that's reasonable.

But when an adult follows and harasses a child, I suspect they may be doing something seriously illegal.

If a rink knowingly lets the adult stay, the rink might have to worry about being liable for child endangerment?

If a skating coach certification body allows the person to continue to coach, maybe they are likewise liable?

That's one of the reasons why any competent management person would pay very close attention, if you had adequate evidence (like multiple witnesses) to the transgression.

About making and keeping a tape: Someone on this forum pointed out to me that it is also illegal in most places and times to record anyone without prior consent - including all skaters and coaches at the rink.

I'm not a lawyer. Maybe someone on this board who understands the law could agree or disagree with the things I just said in this context?

I wouldn't deal with the problem in such a legalistic manner, or contact the certifying body if you can avoid it. The coach might be barred from rinks, lose their coaching certification, and just maybe go to jail. An unstable and dangerous coach might retaliate.

__________________
Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

I think staying inside and taping every lesson is overkill anyways. If he sees you taping him specifically, that might make the situation worse. Has this happened again to your daughter? I'd maybe watch the next one or two lessons and see what happens, if all is good, then great. But if the coach says anything to your daughter again, then I'd start getting on whoever is the director at the rink there to handle the situation. Both you and your daughter shouldn't have to drastically alter either if your normal routines for this coach. That means you should go to the track if you want to and she shouldn't have to yield to this guy and the skater all the time. If she's in her program, that's one thing but all the time otherwise? No way. I'm with Query in that I wouldn't go all out and start shooting off letters to the PSA or taping him. Just see what happens for the next couple of lessons.

__________________
"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

Um...up until now, the coach hasn't done anything illegal. Yelling at someone does not constitute a crime anywhere (let alone something "seriously illegal"). An isolated incident also does not give any rise to any sort of child endangerment.

And as far as videotaping, you can't videotape and display publicly without someone's consent (or consent of a parent if they are a minor). Videotaping your kid's practice to watch at home is fine. If you couldn't videotape anyone without consent, then all the moms and dads who want to tape their kids' soccer games, hockey games, skating competitions and other sporting events would not be allowed to do so.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

If your daughter is not in her program or not in a lesson, of course she should yield to any skater who is in a lesson, but that coach should just say something to her if she fails to yield. Yelling or harassing her is unnecessary and inappropriate under any circumstance. I agree with those who suggest complaining to the skating director at the rink.

__________________
"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

I would like to thank everyone's input.

I don't want to beat a dead horse but I would like to explain a little bit. My daughter was doing CW back crossovers first and looking at the direction she was going. The other skater THEN started the same CW back crossovers with more power and speed into her jump. There is no way my daughter could have seen her until she was about 10 feet away. But as soon as my daughter saw her, my daughter skated away quickly. So the closest distance was about 10 feet. There was no jump blocking or near collision at all.

We are at the rink again this afternoon. The other coach is a lot calmer today and he did not chase his own student at all, unlike last week. My daughter skated close to the wall for the first 20 minutes, doing nothing except stroking. The other skater aborted her jump several times because of all other skaters. When she aborted her jump in the middle of the rink while my daughter was close to the wall, at least 20 feet away, she showed frustration. The other coach did not go to my daughter but talked to his student instead.

Thanks to above suggestions. I did not bring my camera today but just stayed there watching.

Regarding when to yield - I learned FS session rules long ago from this forum and I always remind my daughter about these rules. She is a teenager and she understands what these rules mean. Unfortunately some coaches tell their students to do whatever they want in FS sessions and shall not yield to anyone. We have no problem with this. We just yield more. It's the chasing and yelling part that scared me. But it looks like the other coach just lost his temper last week because his student was not landing her jumps. And now he has realized it after our coach called him. So everything shall be good.

Thanks!

RachelSk8er, are you a lawyer or are you guessing too?

It is hard to believe it is OK for an adult to follow and harass a child. It's too similar to what certain types of criminal do.

Some sources claim photographing or recording someone without permission even in a public place isn't always legal.

http://www.citmedialaw.org/book/export/html/1246 says

In some states, you can violate the law by recording secretly, even in a public place.

and

Twelve states require the consent of every party to a phone call or conversation in order to make the recording lawful.

I once asked on this forum if it was OK to record a group lesson for my private reference, and was told there might be some problems.

__________________
Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

Not yet but I'm probably the closest you'll get to one on here.

The exact nuances of these laws vary slighty by state (which I could pull from Lexis if I really wanted to spend the time). Still, an isolated incident of yelling at someone's kid most likely does not constitute criminal harrassment.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

We also have several full-fledged attorneys on this board. They probably don't feel this is serious enough to require legal action. Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill here by playing tit-for-tat.

__________________

I've been a practicing attorney for 24 years, including 7 as a assistant district attorney and two as a public defender.

Barring any unusual circumstances (such as an active protection order against the shouter), it is not illegal to shout at a kid.

__________________
You miss 100% of the shots you never take.--Wayne Gretzky