I am always so confused with my arms. I never have a clue where they go, especially during swing rolls. I stopped my private lessons because the rink where I took htem was too far and work now gets in the way, and I'm afraid I'm regressing. So if I'm doing foward outside swing rolls, is it same arm in front, or opposite?

Well--different coaches teach them different ways. Most American coaches would have you do opposite arms, so if you're starting on your LO edge, your left arm would be back & right arm front. They stay up, don't drop them like you might with edge rolls, and your body rotates underneath, so at the top of the lobe, both arms are now squared w/ your shoulders, and at the end, your left arm is in front & right arm is back, ready for the new step.

The other way to do it is with arms squared w/ shoulders all the way through, and they never move--so they are always just straight out to the side.

I've never seen swing rolls done by leading same arm/same foot, though that's the way edge rolls are often taught. Don't confuse the two--they're actually very different!

I'm not sure how you're taught, but this is what I see ...

If you're just beginning and for ice dancing, starting with square shoulder, arms & legs for forward outside edge is good. Once you push & stroke out, the free leg will then swing forward to follow through. This will allow a good control throughout & create a naturally "check" position to stablize yourself and at the same time ready to start the next step!
(Very similar or closest to skating with a partner)

Edge rolls == cross rolls?

I am new to the whole "weird" torso position in ice dance moves, but when I practice on my own I just think of it as the position I would be in if I were skating with someone and that helps me remember and do it right...

__________________
Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Edge rolls = pre-preliminary edge rolls. They *can* be done as swing rolls (I did them that way), since really the only requirement is that you're on a solid edge & stay on the correct pattern. But most coaches teach them like the old figure edges which was same hand as the skating foot leading, then dropping the arms down & bringing them back up again as you finish the lobe.

And not all coaches teach them the way you describe -- I call this bringing down your arms and then briging them back up "soldier arms" -- I see this done all of the time and yet my main coach, and actually my secondary dance coach, too, teach the arms going "around" the circle rather than dropping them down.

I have learned swing rolls with just about every arm concoction you can think of, so I can understand your confusion, sue...

Sorry this is probably not much help I guess.

__________________
Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

Icedancer2 - Yes,there's alot of different hands...

For all:

I teach all depending on what I want the skaters to work on. Following is some reasons why:

1. Same hand & same leg (drop arms & knees bend when passing body)
... All beginners, maily for outside edges.
2.Opposite hand & leg (drop arms & knees bend when passing body)
... All beginners, maily for inside edges.
3. Square body check
... Mainly Ice dancing (Prep for Killian with partner)
4. Arms up hold & around
... Ice dancing (Prep for Face to face with partner)
... as well as intermediate & advance freeskate (training continuous move)

FreeSakte: All are also learnt to help prepare skaters for future coordination for jumps & Spins

Jumps Examples:
1--> Lutz, Loop
2--> Flip
3--> Toe Loop
4--> Salchow
Not mentioned ... Spins & Axel --> Combination of 1-4

Hope this will help!

PreciseIce, thanks so much. That actually is very helpful. And everyone else, thanks too. I guess everyone learns them differently.

Why do they need to make this all so confusing?? It gets hard to remember all of it. And by they, I mean general "they", the they of the people who came up with this stuff.

You are welcome Sue123...

There's always reasons people come out with most things (note I didn't say everyone ) The one good reason that keeps on going is it helps when you think about the progression it will bring you into with less or no coordination problem in future. Of coz I do not advise teaching all to beginners .. only teach them when it helps in progressive learning.

The basic arm position 1 & 2 will help them learn to control better and allow longer glides later. Just because it is difficult to start doesn't mean it's not for you at times.

Say, always try at least 10 times (full heartedly) before you comment that you can't do it.

Your mind need to tell yourself you will do it & can do it while your body also needs time & experiental experience to get use to new moves.