so, I have a 1/2 loop. I do it quite fast, I put in as much power as I can, I push with my shoulder, I bend my skate leg like I'm gonna sit down... I think up and around... but I still can't get the last 1/2 rotation...

please help! I have 4 sessions left to land it (I want to get it before summer hols) what can I do?

and whilst on this topic, how can I improve my 2 footed 1/3 - 1/2 flip jump? thanks!

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I think you're trying too hard. The first time I landed my loop, it was at the end of a session and I was like, whatever I don't care anymore, and was kind of lazy but I jumped up and I landed and it was the first time that I landed it clean.

Even now, if I think about it too much, and put a whole lot of effort into it, it doesn't click as well as usual. You just need to bend your skating knee, don't move your arms before you go to jump up, and don't try to get the rotation. Just ride a good outside edge and jump up and eventually it should happen for you.

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Do you do it from backward crossovers? If yes, try it from a forward inside 3-turn. Hold your arms stretched out to your sides during the 3-turn, then pull up as you jump up. Just like in a spin where you increase speed as you pull in your arms, you'll have a lot of spinning momentum there (practice before a mirror or darkened window before to make sure your arms are level, else you'll fall doing this).

Also, make sure to hold that outside edge as long as you possibly can, till the skate flips over by itself, that's the moment of takeoff (of course, you start the jump before it flips over, but you feel the moment coming). And PUSH on that outside edge, that's where your rotation's coming from! Let the ice flip you over. Keeps you from breaking at the waist.

At first I thought the loop required a lot of strength but it's actually the easiest jump there is, strength wise. Just gotta let the ice do the work, let the rip of the edge flip you over. You just go UP at the right time - the moment when the ice flips you over.

thanks, sessy and xofivebyfive! It's reasurring to know that you don't need to be really powerful/strong/etc. that's what I was thinking.

I do it from a 3 turn, I can't seem to do anything like a loop from xo's.

maybe I'll get a chance to try again on Saturday, otherwise, I'll update on Monday.

any suggestions for the flip?

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Get your loop first, the flip comes easily from there.

With the flip, the upper body is doing the same thing. The skating leg (left for ccw) does the same thing as the free (left for ccw) leg does on the loop - believe it or not. It's just the right-leg action that differs and the setup so that's why I'd say get the loop first. But anyway some people get the flip first, then the loop.

With the flip, you make a long, drawn-out 3-turn. For me, the setup that made it click was, (I'm ccw) lfi edge (left arm front, right to the side) to lfo edge switch (keep arms and shoulders!) this edge switch being done by means of a free-leg toetap (push yourself forward with the toetap, straightening out the edge, making it almost flat), then 3-turn from there (keep the shoulders and neck!!!) then jump.
Now, doing the 3-turn, bring your free leg (right for ccw) backwards straight from the 3-turn, get deep on your skating leg and keep that picking leg LOW. Don't move it up at all, you shouldn't be feeling the back of your leg at all. Also, keep it straight. Not bending the knee, not bending the ankle. This puts tension on all of your leg, you'll feel it. It's good.
When you pick: don't smash into the ice. Hook it, ever so slightly, you've gotta get it into your head that you're featherlight basically, else you're wasting all of your energy making holes in the ice. Featherlight.
The picking leg is the leg you're taking off from - the last one to leave the ice. You basically make a loop takeoff from the moment your left (forward) leg is starting to approach your picked in (right) leg. As in, you lift your knee into the rotation like with the loop or the falling leaf. This starts your rotating.

Three key factors to getting it:
- ARMS! CHeCK them. You do NOT pre-rotate at all, it's a solid fix that only snaps out of the position at the last moment, giving you a sudden burst of rotational momentum. If you pre-rotate, you can't get that burst.
- Picking low and with a straight leg and pulling backwards with the picking leg before take-off (not taking off from the left leg, for ccw, but from the picking leg!)
- Loop jump knee-lift and fixing of shoulders to hips in the air.

Cheating the rotation on the flip:
Try it from an inside (ccw) mohawk. Hold the inside edge till you're a quarter rotated already, then jump. If you get just a little more than a half rotation, you'll be able to land it backwards already. Muscle strength is more of an issue with the flip than it is with the loop, is my perception. With the mohawk you've gotta REALLY mind your arms though, they won't set up automatically.

Oh yeah: don't try to get around. It's not a backspin, it's a jump. Spring up, that's what jumps are for.
Helps me to practice a ton of just flip take-offs, without any rotation, before trying it.
And speed kind of does help on the flip.

Right before I go into a jump I'm really working on, I relax and take a breath. I don't go rag doll, but just think - ok it's a jump, jump. It helps.

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Hi,
My advice....
Try doing the loop holding onto the boards (you'll be moving parallel to the boards, so make sure you have about 5 feet of wall space). Do your inside 3 and hold the back edge...... after you let the edge start to spiral (just a slight bit) make sure you're on your toepick (even edge jumps take off the toe). The first 1/8th or so of every jump starts on the ice and if you're missing that, it's very difficult to get the momentum to rotate once you're in the air........ so, once you've turned very slightly on your toepick, press up off your right leg and snap your right hip into a back spin position. You will be holding onto the boards with your right hand at the point of take off.... just reach back and grab them with your left before you jump and SNAP!
As for the arms.... other than making sure they're checked before take off, and that you're square all of the time.... don't worry about your arms so much, focus on your core snapping in and getting that backspin done.
I know it's alot of details, but if you try it on your kitchen counter first to get all of the steps, it really does work!
OH, and you can do the flip the same way as the loop on the boards.... if you're only getting less than half a rotation and two footing, I would say your left leg is not crossing in front of your right on take-off ? If you try the flip on the boards, at the point that you are doing your little pivot on the toe, MAKE SURE your left leg is crossed in front and that it stays there when you jump. After that, same as the loop (the two jumps are identical other than the entry)
Good Luck, and let us know if you get it!!!

I find the most important thing to do is keep the right arm and shoulder back as long as possible before jumping. The natural tendancy is for the upper body to start turning before the jump (prerotating), and then there is no twist left to snap around in the jump. You need to really reach the right hand way back as you prepare to jump, and then as you jump you release the twist to the left and make sure to twist your hips around too. Whenever I don't hold the edge, and let my body prerotate, I end up with a loop that doesn't go around. Try practicing on the floor at home - even on two feet is OK, just to feel the twist and snap.

An exercise I use on my students to help them land their loop, which they all hate b/c it's challenging, but it helps tremendously:

(I think you jump CW, so I changed the directions for you...)

1. Open the door to the penalty box and stand on your left toepick with both hands gently holding onto the sides of the penalty box doors. You should be in 'h' position (I wrote a ton about this in the spin trainers thread, I think, if you need more information about it...http://skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=23909).
2. Gently use your hands to rotate you in a CW direction (while still on your toepick so you don't destroy your blades!).
3. As you're rotating, jump out of the box in the correct loop - or backspin/'h' position. You should begin jumping as you are facing sideways (your right) in the door.

To help you land, you must focus on landing on one foot. This requires that you keep your right hip up while in the air so that you don't drop it and put your foot down upon landing. Start out slowly with little jumps and gradually increase the height and distance as you become more comfortable with this exercise.

Hope that wasn't too confusing, but oh well! Good luck!

i agree with sexyskates - holding the check is SO important, on both jumps! however, that doesn't mean get all tense and hunch your shoulders. hold the check but keep your shoulders down, then think about jumping UP.

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