I tried that. I found that for me, skating only once a week and witbuying someone's missed lesson once in awhile, I just could not progress and it was frustrating. For me, it was better to just stop than subject myself to the frustration. I'm the kind of person that if I do somethng, I put a lot into it. Now that I skate more and have regular lessons I enjoy it more. But that's just me.

j

I think Mercedes made a good point, and (s)he put it very pleasantly. She wasn't saying anyone is a martyr; and she wasn't putting down sacrifices for children per se. She was just saying parents should treat themselves well, too. I totally agree, and it's what I was trying to get across, too.

It's not a zero sum game. Moreover, I think over-reacting to people who say you should enjoy your life as a parent - and dismissing them as "not understanding what it's like to be a parent" - is missing the point. The point is, you don't put your own health/well-being/athletic joys *ahead* of your child(ren)'s. But you don't eliminate it either. You find ways to do both.

If skating is too expensive, there is always walking, running, shooting hoops, working out to a DVD, doing yoga on a mat in your bedroom, or whatever. And skating on a public session, with your kid(s) on the ice too, is often a nice compromise that I see a great deal at the rink.

Anyway, it's disappointing to see the usual disintegration of a conversation between parents and non-parents. We non-parents may be sometimes unrealistic or overly hopeful that balance can be reached. But we don't need to be "gently lectured" when we are trying to share with parents our hopes that they can (and should) enjoy their own athletic pursuits, too.

I see you as missing My point, just like you see me misssing yours.
No where did anyone say moms cant work out,go to a movie, go out to dinner, read a book, go on a trip, ski, fish,golf or any other activity. I didnt say that, nor did the other poster.
What we did say is its too spendy for me to have lessson, and spend as much on me as I do on them. For this FAMILY, that isnt in the cards.Im not lecuring anyone but I still dont see a need to not support my kids in a sport they love.THIS sport is more expensive than most.I also didnt say I dont skate. I do while my kids skate. But there is a huge difference between me skating and them skating.
Sorry you dont see it the way I do but such is life.

but the whole point is we are talking about skating here - I dont' want to go walking or shooting hoops - I want to skate and so does my kid. Just skating on a public session isn't compromise in my book - it is giving up on both kid and parent.

I'm lucky in that we can afford for both myself and my kids to skate and have lessons but I know that had it come to the crunch, I would have given way to my kids provided that they were going to make the most of the opportunity in the way of working hard at skating and progressing and competing etc.

Until you have kids it is hard to understand the joy a parent gets from seeing their children succeed at something. I'd have given up my own skating for years if I had had to, to have the joy of watching my kids compete in the national championships pairs. I did cut back on my skating for a time but luckily did not have to give it up entirely.

Part of the reason for sacrificing one's own skating is that the children do have so much more opportunity to achieve something meaningful with their skating and with many comps being age related, they have to do it when they are still eligible or not at all, while for the parents we know that we can always go back to it later.

I knew I'd never get to a regular national championships but they could and did. I'm never going to be too old to go to the adult championships - too decrepit soon maybe!!!

We have quite a few skating parents with kids who skate too. Most start becaseu their kids start but in my case I dragged the kids along because I wanted to do it - of course they rapidly overtook me. A number of them do work as well or have worked as well. Not easy but it can be done. I don't know any parents who skate whose kids do not skate at all.

I was responding to jskater more than to you. But I think both of you have a pretty lecturing tone, actually. We all get that you're a FAMILY. You don't need to hammer it home with capitals to get the point across.

Jskater first said she gave up skating. Then others said they couldn't afford to pay for lessons for themselves if their kids were skating. Mercedes suggested that it might be possible to pay for one's own lessons at times, rather than only for kids'. Then came the whole "I can't spend on myself as I do on them, and if you don't get that sacrifice is/must be involved, you're just not savvy to parenthood" (or "why would I have two kids if I didnt think I had to give up something?").

Again, it's not "spoil"/"indulge" vs. "be selfish"/"pay for my lessons and take away from my childrens' lessons". I was simply saying that you could spend *some* on yourself without detracting from your kids' future; and you could enjoy being athletic, and pursuing what you love, in ways that enhance them, you, and your FAMILY.

Anyway, I'm much more interested to see the dynamic up close and personal, in my wonderful extended family, where the athletes span generations in the best of ways.

Actually she said she thought it was sad, and thought that we should pull our kids out of skating so that we could skate. I was trying to tell her, there really was no reason to be sad, at least on my account. It's not sad. Really.

Actually I think the person who is saying that anyone who decides not to skate because it's too expensive to pay for two people skating is never saying no to their children and is unhappy and needs to have a life is the one who is over reacting. We were the ones trying to explain that just because it is necesary to sacrifice, it's not a miserable life and that you can still be happy and fulfilled and your children will not be spoiled.

Um, did I or anyone say "I quit skating and then I had nothing to do and all I did was cook and clean and and slave to my children's desires?" I certainly didn't say that.

Maybe you want to read the whole thing again. Because there were a lot of ASSUMPTIONS made about parents being made by a non-parent and they were silly and arrogant actually. And despite being offended by that arrogance, I tried to yes, "gently" explain what it is really like to be a parent. I never made assumptions about non-parents--I simply explained from experience to someone without experience.

If I do that, I'm the one causing the conversation to disintergrate. But its fine for someone who is not a parent to lecture me about how I need to enjoy life, say no to our kids--all because I didn't tell my kid to quit skating so we can skate.

I think what twokidsmom and I are trying to say and I don't why we are either being disbelieved or lectured or accused of ruining a conversation -- WE ARE NOT MISERABLE OR UNHAPPY OR HAVE SPOILED KIDS BECAUSE WE PUT OUR CHILDREN FIRST. I guess you just have to be a parent to believe and understand this, but is it too much to ask to take our word for it???

Yes, I guess I could take away a lesson from one of my kids and have it myself.Between the two of them, they have 5 lessons a week
But why would I?
This all started as someone said the adult skaters with kids werent as devoted as adult skaters with kids.I dont think its that they are not devoted, its a time and money issue.
One of the reasons would be the cost of skating.Unless you are rich, it does make a huge inpact on the budget.yes, I guess I could let them stay rec skaters, and allow me the same things they get.We all could just skate like that.
But my skaters at least for now, are competive skaters.Its not that I mind spending the money on them now. Its not like I do without.Its just since we spend a small fortune now, there is no way to make the money go futher.
We are off to the rink to skate, all three of us

I find telling me to enjoy life when I NEVER SAID I DID NOT ENJOY LIFE to be lecturing. I never told anyone to do anything - I simply tried to explain it from MY POV. If that's lecturing...well then I give up.
[/QUOTE]

I look at it this way: my kids are only going to be thisclose to me for a short time, then they'll have to make their own life. I can always skate later - I might even get brave enough to take up Dance once my knees give up on Freestyle skating. It's been hard coming back, but I'm making progress. As long as a parent isn't becoming resentful because they've "sacrificed," it's fine.

If you want to skate and you have little ones, you have to get creative to make the time and cost affordable. I have to say "thank g-d" that I tend to "step in good luck." I get a lot of $$ breaks on ice time, find good sales on equipment, but being a coach helps most of all. The Skating School has been generous and I know that, in a pinch, I can bring the girls when I don't have a sitter. The Club I teach at lets them practice on the group lesson ice and pay a "drop-in" rate for the MITF/Stroking lessons. As a result, I can teach two groups and three privates without paying for a sitter. The girls get a lot exercise, even off-ice: one of the twins has charmed the girls' track team, so they take the twins jogging on the track above the rink. (I heard the coach say "These eight-years olds are going faster than you high school girls - pick up your feet!" ROTFLOL)

It's easier with skating children than when you have little ones who need a sitter. Teaching my own kids is difficult (for me), but it's great for practices. This year, the twins have someone else as an instructor, but I do "reminders" during their practices. ("Didn't () say to keep that free foot in front?")

From the "Lead by Example" category: my kids actually practice what they've been working on in lessons and they use their Basic Skills booklets and practice notebooks. They were so impressed that I passed Pre-Prel last week, aka: "The Big Test." They helped me add the patches to my ISI collection. Now, the twins both want to take The Big Test themselves - so we'll make it happen.

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Argh! so true! I cannot wait till my two get on and have a go with me! (the six year old has a try but isn't good enough for patch yet so still a problem with times!) I find it a nightmare to either get them looked after or have them sit on the side (there is a friend who sits with them for a bit) Who knows how I'll afford three skaters, but I'm going to have a go!

To lighten up this thread -

My daughter took her pre-pre fs and I took my bre-bronze fs test at the same time on the same ice. We thought that was cool.

That was like five years ago and she's at intermediate and I'm still pre-bronze ...

j

A few creative solutions I've seen:

One woman coach has a "mother's helper" teen come to the rink during the freestyle sessions to keep her toddlers company. They've bartered babysitting for skating lessons.

Once, a woman asked me to barter private musical instrument lessons for her DD's skating lessons. I turned her down because none of my kids wanted the music lessons.

An adult student of mine would bring her kids to the rink with her regular babysitter. Afterwards, they all went home.

I used skate with two moms who took lessons on alternate weeks. While one was on lesson, the other had a playdate with both kids at the playground outside or the nearby McDonald's with the indoor playroom.

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I don't think this is something that anybody who doesn't have kids of their own could ever understand - and none of us who do can quite see the point of view of those who don't!

I suppose I possibly have the best of both worlds, having had and raised a child - but she's now an adult (and this time next month will be a married woman!), and hasn't lived at home for seven or eight years now..... so we can afford our treats and pleasures now in a way we certainly could not have done while we were paying school fees for her!

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Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Oh oh oh. People who want me to take something away from my kids and give it to me...

The only time for a lesson we could get for my dd ended ten minutes too late for her to get to school on time. So I said I'd take the last ten minutes just to get my money's worth. Little did I know how much I would treasure that ten minutes. One day dd didn't have school. I wouldn't let her take those precious ten minutes from me.

"NO NO NO ! THEY ARE MINE! MINE I TeLL YOU!!!"

j

People seem to be scared to "spoil themselves" it's like if they say no to little Betty Sue they're a monster and selfish.

I think if they say yes they are only pampering and spoiling their child, and before they know it they will be self centered and egotistical.

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Check out the sites I run
http://www.joelisi.net
http://www.charlieday.net

Uhm because it is the -right- thing to do. They won't notice the difference.

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Check out the sites I run
http://www.joelisi.net
http://www.charlieday.net

Don't think of it as taking away from your kids. Think of it as "sharing the coach and your lessons with them."

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Listen, you dont get it. I get you dont get it.Butfor crying out loud, why is it the thing to DO? Who choose that ? Why would YOU think it wouldnt make a difference?If you dont think my kids who skate every day wouldnt notice?
When you have kids, you may raise them the way you see fit. But please dont tell me they wouldnt notice, or its the right thing to do... For who? YOU?

Why oh why is it that Im spoiling them? Why do you think they are pampered?Do you know what THEY give up to skate ? We say No to them every day. Why do you know more about them than I do?
Why do you not get the fact I spoiled myself the first 37 years of my life.I dont see the fact my kids skate = they are spoiled.
I know you dont get it. If you want to think Im a bad mom with no life, go ahead. But Im not and I have a fullfilled life without skating every day.!!! :

OH FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, STOP BICKERING EVERYBODY OR TAKE IT TO PM'ing!

Please mods, can this thread just get locked or something?! This isn't a discussion anymore, everybody just got their point of view and they're not changing it so it's completely pointless for this discussion to continue.

When we were starting out, son and I used to share a lesson with the same coach. It was a useful disciplinary tool to be able to remind him that I'd be happy to take a bigger share of the lesson time if he didn't shape up.

Rob