Interesting! Now I'm going to have to check it out next time I'm on the ice!

Say,btw.,how do I find my max. speed when spining with skates (the same speed I can go in my shoes)? Also, how do I get myself to spin freely? Am I supposed to be lifting myself up onto my Toe-picks? As when I've been spining,I just end-up pushing off on my Edges with each turn I make. Can anyone help me?

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FSWer

FSWer - I'm confused: you started THIS thread with the same questions and multiple people have answered them.
Try reading through slowly from the first post forward because I think you have all the answers here already.

I can spin in both directions and I always use the inside edges for a two-foot spin. It does feel like you're tracing a small circle and the tracings will show that, so ITA with you.

The trick is to keep your toes turned in a bit, like this: /\ and stay on the front of the blade, but behind the toepicks. I try not to think about it, but one foot is going forward and the other backward. When I'm feeling lazy, I tend to put most of my weight on one foot - the other one's on the ice just for show, and I even let it ride on the heel as long as no one's watching carefully, lol. It doesn't matter for a Basic Skills class - the USFSA just specifies that one foot is traveling backwards and the other forwards - no edges are required, and they're not even taught until several levels later in the curriculum.

The turned-in foot position does makes it easier to teach skaters to shift weight and pick up one foot for the introductory one-foot spin later on.

I tried the LBI/RFO trick described above and that's pretty much impossible because the feet spread apart too easily. It would be good for teaching a changefoot or even an opposite-edge spin, though. I would worry that it would cause a trip or slideout for a beginner if they tried to hold their feet on opposite edges in the same direction. (A forward spin is on the BI edge, a backspin is on the BO edge.)

I don't think you'll see a benefit in having a two-foot spin set up the backspin later on. That's better done with other exercises that emphasize edging and turning.

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(The rest of your post was interesting too. To be honest, I just always thought it was the edges I posted earlier, I really can't tell when I'm spinning and when I was corrected earlier I tried to focus on it and can't. I tried 2 foot spin in both directions and couldn't really tell for either.)

Why do you not like to do the backspin from a 2-foot spin. I've seen most beginners get this from "2 foot spin and pick your foot up approach" before you start an entrance with a T-push/edge.

I'm wondering if you've seen bad habits develop, or just personal preference. (I don't teach at that level. My snowplow kids aren't doing backspins...)

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

I know I don't stay on the 2 foot spin, pick up the other foot backspin for very long. I do it once or twice so my students can get the feeling of something new in a "safe" context. I move pretty quickly to the inside edge entry because that it how they are expected to do it in FS 3 for the Basic Skills levels.

--Kim

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Skating Dreams

"All your life you are told the things you cannot do. All your life they will say you're not good enough or strong enough or talented enough; they will say you're the wrong height or the wrong weight or the wrong type to play this or be this or achieve this. THEY WILL TELL YOU NO, a thousand times no, until all the no's become meaningless. All your life they will tell you no, quite firmly and very quickly. AND YOU WILL TELL THEM YES." --Nike

I checked on the ice, and I do indeed do a two foot spin exactly as you describe it here. I also checked with my coach, and she teaches it this way for the very reason you've stated.

BACKSPIN EXPLANATION:

I do the same - it's not that I don't like the technique, it just doesn't teach the real backspin and the feeling of being over the back outside edge. Beginners tend to do the backspin on the forward inside edge because they're used to keeping their weight on the forward-spin foot.

They start learning the backspin well after they've mastered the forward upright spins, including the scratch spin, so I doubt they'd remember learning the two-foot spin. It's just overkill to at that point. The balls of the feet are more important than what edges are in use to a beginner.

For a backspin, I also use the two-foot-to-backspin just to get the opposite foot concept into their mind, then I have them do turn-and-pickup from a standstill. (CCW: Skater stands still in a pivot position, right foot in front, left foot behind, check to the right side. They turn to the left, closing the hip and picking up the free foot to initiate the spin. I like having the skater use the right toepick to turn, so that they don't get stuck on an edge.)

At the same time, I teach the tightly checked snail-shell entry as an edge exercise. (Just draw a small snail-shell curve, spiraling into the center of a hockey dot and have them skate it on an inside edge, start to finish. Arms are always checked to the right.)

When they've gotten the hang of both, I have them put it together and do the FI3 entry from the snail-shell, then turn and pick up the free leg in front while checking throughout the entry/spin when they reach the center of the circle.

Back outside power pulls really help with the backspin since it builds directional strength and also the spin exit.

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While that's the way I always did it, I had never thought to tell the skaters to pidgeon-toe their feet before attending a Basic Skills Teacher workshop. It just made perfect sense when the on-ice instructor mentioned it. That "Learn to Teach" seminar was loaded with helpful info. It should have been worth more PSA educational credits.

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Yesterday this thread was still in "General Skating Chat, Polls & Discussion", where I participated repeatedly.

Now today it's in "On Ice - Parents/Coaches": yes I'm a mom
(of a skater currently not skating), but I'm not a coach; so can I even post in this thread anymore??

Please someone explain, why this thread was moved at all; or at least move it to "On Ice - Skaters" where it really belongs.

Thank you!

Isk8NYC = superstar instructor!!!

My coach INSISTS on the pidgeon-toe for the 2 ft spin.The slight pressure it takes to get this stance prevents the two feet from spinning around each other, which is very common when first starting to spin. She notes that it creates a stable "platform" for the upper body. We're working on the beginning layback from a 2-ft spin and this position really helps.

It can take a loooooong time to learn to spin. Really, it is not something you can learn from reading about it. Try bending your left leg, imagining that it is a pole stuck in the ice, and bring your entire right side around it in a circular motion (arm, shoulder, torso, foot all moving together). When you've brought the right side of your body about 3/4 the way around, "pop" up your bent left leg into straight (actually, more or less straight) position, while balanced with your arms out to the side in the 10:00 and 2:00 o'clock position. Keep your hips under your torso (don't break at the waist) and allow yourself to begin to spin. Do NOT worry about speed yet. Get used to that initial feeling. Next do the same thing but imagine your arms are holding a beach ball (put your arms in the position as if you were holding a beach ball). Slowly (once you feel balanced) draw your arms together and slowly pull them together towards the middle of your chest. Practice just getting a spin in a balanced position before you even think about edges and speed. Fast spins can only work once you've mastered that basic balanced position. I know you can do it! You work hard and that's more than a lot of skaters can say.

Who knows why the thread on Spinning got moved; but
as I'm playing-around with 2-ft. Spins, I continue asking:
1.
Unless the rocker is very pronounced,
in order to have the rear OFF the ice too, wouldn't we be on tip-toes? - and
why (in the other thread) I asked my 1st. question.

2. if the blade at its highest point, is a bit further back, than where the ball of our foot, rests - What do we do?
Stuff cotton into our skate, I guess??

(When I bought these Reidell-skates, from the rink-coach, on fitting me, I told her a 6+1/2 fit the best;
but this is a 1/2-size larger than her Stocked-boots, & she didn't want to have to order the 6+1/2,
so I told my coach at the time, but coaches tend to stick together, and
chalk it up to "Beginners don't know what they're talking about" -
Fortunately, this boot is 1/2-size smaller than the 1st. boots I had, miles too big!!!)

3. Well, that "almost parallel, several inches apart, and your weight would have to be more to the center of the blades."
- is sorta what's happening now, I think. -
Of course, I can't really tell AS I'm doing it, because I'm giving it my best to keep the spin going...

4. That's great! for skaters having learned backwards on one foot. - Another new thread

I'm still at the point where I'd be very happy getting 7 revs. on 2-ft.

Well, thank you!! for helping out, again!
.

I'll address this part, since I said it in the first place! Just set your skate on a table top and look - you'll see that you can get it in a position where neither the toe picks nor the heel are resting on the table. It's balanced on a spot somewhere in the middle. The trick is to find that spot while you're actually wearing the skates. You really don't have to move very much - it's a very subtle shift.

EXPLANATION:

It was moved because the moderator only realized today that it was in the wrong forum. I was surprised to find it was in the wrong place because we have a few members who usually remark on misplaced threads. No one did, so I took care of it myself once I became aware of the error.

It could have gone in "On Ice - Skaters" but since it wasn't started there and most of the people replying to it were coaches and instructors, I moved it to the Parents/Coaches forum.

And now you have your explanation and I've also merged your duplicate thread.

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Take a look what they're spinning at:
http://z.about.com/d/figureskating/1.../-/scratch.jpg
(click on the image to zoom in for a detailed view)

Not the toepicks, but not a flat either as you can see. On the sweet spot just behind the picks
In reality, it feels like spinning on the ball of your foot (as opposed to on your entire foot or on your toes)