Back Camel Tips, Anyone?

[Raine]

Hi, everyone!

I'm learning a back camel from an LFI3 (CW), and find that instead of spinning, I'm inscribing 2-foot-wide circles into the ice. :x

Also, I know that I'm dipping my left shoulder, but I can't seem to keep my shoulders level in the back camel position.

Any tips on this tricky move?

Happy Skating,
Raine

[96.23??]

Hmmm... I used to have the same problem, have you tried it off of a camel? What works for me is to do a camel spin but not too too many rotations and then push into the back camel. It gives you much more speed.

[Raine]

Hi 96.23??

I'm working on the camel/change camel too, but have a weak pivot into the back camel (which I'm trying to fix of course). I'm hoping that learning the back camel from the LFI3 will eventually help me with my back spin.

Thanks,
Raine

[vesperholly]

Hi Raine, flying camel is one of my favorite spins, and I practiced tons of back camels before flying camels so I have lots of tips! :-)

Are you inscribing big forward inside circles, or back outside circles?

Basic tips:

Enter the spin from a shallow RFI with L foot in front and turned out, right arm forward and left back slightly, then step onto LFI edge with deep knee bend. As you step, arch your back and drop your chest. Push your right foot behind you in a sweeping motion. Keep your right arm in front and as you rise up on your L knee, bring it back towards your right hip.

You should feel as if you are "leading" the spin with the heel of your left foot. Make a conscious effort to get a good position in this spin - it will help it infinitely, plus it will look impressive. :) Arms steady, straight legs, instep of free foot slightly turned out. Once you hit the sweet spot, FREEZE! This will keep you spinning longer.

A few months ago I caught a really good back camel of mine on video. I will upload it to my website later tonight if you're interested. I spin clockwise also.

Jocelyn

[jwcardinal11]

Unfortunately, the back camel is one of the toughest spins to learn. For a lot of people, the way to learn it is to start from a something-change-camel ... because you already have the angular momentum for the back camel coming from the forward spin. Just as with spirals (or anything on one foot), it is easier to maintain your position with moderate speed than little or no speed (or, on the other hand, with excessive speed). So that is why it would usually be easier to learn the back camel with the momentum from the forward spin.

You would normally either want to start off with either a forward camel or a forward upright spin. A sit-change-camel poses many more challenges because of the change in kneebend. So go with whatever is more comfortable so that you can at least start the back camel.

Also, don't forget the basics of the back spin. Fundamentally, it's really just a forward inside three-turn into tiny back outside circles. The spinning leg is bent on the forward inside edge and pushes up to a straight leg during the switch of edge that happens in the three-turn. You cannot spin without switching over to a back outside edge (or for the daring, a forward outside edge ... but that only happens after switching from a back outside edge that the skater is already on). So remind yourself of that.

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[kayskate]

I found it much easier to learn a bcamel from a FI3 than in combo w/ a forward camel. If you have a good forward camel, you will use similar technique for backward. For me, the key is to hook the camel. ( see the Lussi videos for more on hooking) Someone else described approach edges, and I agree w/ those statements. At the peak of your initiating 3turn, you should hit the toe pick (hooking). This anchors your spin and gives tight rotation. You must rise into position quickly. Sweep the free arm and leg into position as you achieve the apex of the 3turn.

If you have a good bspin, do a bspin w/ the free leg outstretched. When centered and spinning somewhat fast, pivot into the bcamel position. You will lose speed in this transition, but it can help you to become familiar w/ achieving the position quickly and fluidly.

Kay

[Raine]

Thanks so much everyone for the great tips!

I've been concentrating on the bcamel in order to train myself to keep my upright bspin on a BO edge. At least with my pathetic bcamel, I'm staying on a BO edge even though the circles are huge. :roll:

Like Kay, I'm finding the FI3 approach easier than camel/change camel. Camel/change camel requires a strong BI pivot with the chest down, which I don't have yet. But I'll try jwcardinal11's suggestion of changing from a forward scratch or sit spin. That seems like a good way to generate momentum.

It seems that the hook and FREEZE are the two elements that I'm missing. I also like Jocelyn's idea of thinking of leading the spin with the heel of the skating foot.

Happy Skating,
Raine

[vesperholly]

You've got it - when you hit a really good back camel, you will feel a very distinct hook and snap into rotation, and of course when you freeze the position on a good back camel, it will feel effortless.

Jocelyn