Question for Coaches

[Black Sheep]

Please be honest: When you're doing a private lesson with a kid at a crowded FS session, how well do you respect other skaters who aren't having lessons but are just out there trying to practice? Truth is, I've had a lot of trouble in crowded practice sessions lately, and it isn't the kids that scare me--it's the hard-nosed coaches they are having lessons with. Even when I'm doing my program with my music actually playing, coaches don't seem to notice until I collide with the kids they are teaching. Then, of course it's me who gets in trouble. :roll:

[Clarice]

I'm not a coach, so I can't reply directly to your question. But why would you ever collide with a kid? Even if your music is playing, you're not absolved from paying attention to what's going on around you. Yes, the skater doing their program should have the right of way, but I can think of lots of situations where you have to graciously yield on a crowded session - when another skater is already in a spin, for instance. I'm an adult skater who mostly skates freestyles with the kids, and I haven't found it to be a problem.

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by Clarice
But why would you ever collide with a kid?

Uh, on accident? (Though some coaches tend to react like I did it on purpose! :roll: )

[Clarice]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you'd run into a kid on purpose! But on a crowded session, you obviously have to have your wits about you, and expect to have to go around people. If a kid is in a lesson and concentrating on a moves pattern or something, they're not as likely to notice you coming through on footwork or a jump setup. You just have to go around them. I've had kids accidentally run into me when I've been in a lesson, but I don't think I've ever run into anybody while doing my program. If everybody's paying attention, collisions should be very rare. When we've had the most trouble, it's been either because we've all gotten a little careless about watching out for each other (like when everybody's ultra-focused on their own work right before a competition), or because some individual is acting like they own the ice and it's everybody else's job to watch out for them. Usually, an announcement about the need to be courteous on a crowded session and keep each other's safety in mind takes care of the problem (at least for that session!).

[dbny]

I don't coach on freestyle sessions, but I do have my own lessons on them, with a coach who is extremely courteous. The general rule is that students in lessons have priority over everyone else, then skaters doing programs, then MIF, and finally everyone else. My coach has always called out a "sorry" to any skater who was displaced by her lessons, and always tried to find the least crowded area for whatever she was working on and attempted to avoid interfering with program skaters. There are times when nothing works, and everyone ends up frustrated. The biggest problems I've seen have not been from skaters in programs, but from coaches who are not respectful of other coaches' lessons.

[sk8pics]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
Please be honest: When you're doing a private lesson with a kid at a crowded FS session, how well do you respect other skaters who aren't having lessons but are just out there trying to practice?

I'm not a coach either, but I want to point out that if you are just practicing, while it's nice if a coach in a lesson is courteous to you, I don't think you should expect them to be giving way to you. A skater in a lesson has priority over someone who is just practicing. Now, if you are skating your program to your music, they should yield to you, but I see many cases of that not happening. I have on occasion when doing my program in a lesson skated right up to someone else in a lesson and very deliberately stopped, and then some notice and apologize, and I find the next time is better. But ifyou're doing your program over and over again, I doubt people will continually get out of your way, and if you're practicing without music, I don't think you should expect it at all.

I don't know what conditions are like for you exactly, obviously, but it seems like you are relatively often posting about problems like this. Is it possible for you to discuss with your coach?

Pat

[Mrs Redboots]

If in doubt, hit the coach, not the pupil - they are stronger and less likely to fall over! ;)

Seriously, though, remember that you will go where you are looking, so don't look at the skater, or you will inevitably skate straight into them (I've seen this happen on a very empty rink!). Look at the space in front or behind them where you want to go.

[TreSk8sAZ]

I don't normally coach on freestyle sessions (mine are too young or inexperienced), but I'm on them constantly for lessons and practice. Unless I go to a session I'm not used to, basically my coach and I know everyone's programs and where they are going to be, so we try to get out of the way of someone with their program on. However, this doesn't always work and if we're in the middle of something major then we try to steer around, but we don't move.

I have the same problem, however, on some of my freestyle sessions. We do not have any dance-only sessions, which is just bad. I've often been on a pattern, with music on, and encountered someone that just won't move. One time I actually had a coach and two students just standing and talking, and they refused to move from the same place TWICE. It is frustrating, but everyone has to make some sacrifices on a crowded session.

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by sk8pics
I don't know what conditions are like for you exactly, obviously, but it seems like you are relatively often posting about problems like this. Is it possible for you to discuss with your coach?

Sure. He believe soloists have the right of way. Actually, when we are having a lesson, he tells me to watch out for them.

[sk8pics]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
Sure. He believe soloists have the right of way. Actually, when we are having a lesson, he tells me to watch out for them.

What do you mean by soloist? Somebody practicing without a coach? Does he tell you to watch out for them in a way that means he is worried they will hit you or in a way that means they are more important? My coach will sometimes tell me to watch out for someone else, but it's usually because he thinks they may hit us! But he will often run interference for me and move people out of my way, and sometimes that's what it takes.

Pat

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by sk8pics
What do you mean by soloist? Somebody practicing without a coach? Does he tell you to watch out for them in a way that means he is worried they will hit you or in a way that means they are more important? My coach will sometimes tell me to watch out for someone else, but it's usually because he thinks they may hit us!

My coach does that for the same reson--to keep his students safe.

[becca]

At my club, the person skating their program (with music) has the right of way, not the person in a lesson. This seems to work very well for everyone.

[blurrysarah]

Same as above, at my rink if your music is on, you have the right of way. You are also required to wear a fluro armband (coaches give them out) so people know it's your turn. Of course, there's a few skaters (namely certain ice dancers, ahem) who think they have right of way ALL the time, and will give you dirty looks and stomp off in a huff if you happen to be skating NEAR them.

[Black Sheep]

I feel like such a jerk for posting stuff like this. Sometimes, when I'm having a bad day, stuff like this just gets the best of me.

[dbny]

You're not a jerk. Everyone gets frustrated sometimes when the ice is crowded. There are definitely days when you can't seem to find an inch of ice or one minute without interruption. One time I nearly collided with the same person three times in about half an hour, and neither of us were at fault.

[Black Sheep]

Actually, I collided with this little girl having a lesson after I'd (successfully!) finished my program and was taking a cool-down lap (I could barely walk--much less skate--in a straight line. Fortunately, she had one of the nicer coaches at the rink, one who seems to like me okay and is easy to talk to. I helped the girl up and asked, "Are you okay?", and that was that. 8-) The coach understood that sometimes these accidents just happen. 8-)

[jazzpants]

Originally posted by Mrs Redboots
If in doubt, hit the coach, not the pupil - they are stronger and less likely to fall over! ;) Tee hee hee... I had a lesson with my primary coach yesterday morning...and there were about five coaches (all with students...) I was doing the alt. back crossover and I have to learn how to adjust my crossover to things in the rink.

Anyway, it went something like this... (He's following me through the pattern, mind you...)

"Okay, go toward the door, and toward the blue line, now go towards Coach X, now go towards the window... now go around the hockey circle and Coach Y... keep going... go towards Coach Z... now go curve towards Coach L..."

You get the idea... ;) :lol:

Seriously, though, remember that you will go where you are looking, so don't look at the skater, or you will inevitably skate straight into them (I've seen this happen on a very empty rink!). Look at the space in front or behind them where you want to go.
That's the problem with me... the space is a moving target... :( :P

To end this... we had a nasty accident on this session with two skaters colliding doing back crossovers at really REALLY fast speeds. Collision worthy of Midori Ito... DOH!!! One skater, unfortunately, is down for the count, b/c her back got messed up from the crash... AAAIIIIIEEEE!!! 8O

[Magz]

At our club both the people in lessons and whose music is playing have the right of way...it works fairly well, but their are some who are especially ignorant. im actually only speaking of one skater who doesnt much like moving for people and yells at us to get out of her way even when we're not in her way...one day i got really mad because my music was playing and she was standing right in my way talking to another skater so i just said very loudly "can you please move!?" my friend burst out laughing...i thought that might force her to be a bit more considerate but alas it hasn't.

In lessons, my coach will tell me if someone is going to hit me, for my own safety.

[LilSk8er24]

Accidents do happen, especially on crowded sessions! At my club the skater given priority of the ice is:
1. skater with music in a lesson
2. skater with music
3. skater in a lesson
4. others
For skaters with their music on, we used to have these neon pink arm bands that worked really well until the club decided that we didn't need them anymore. (yah, right!)
Just ry to be careful while you're out there and try not to hurt yourself or anybody else. And yelling "Jump coming!" or "Program!" or even "Coming through!" while your music is on and you're skating your program heps kinda...What I hate is when I'm in a lesson with my music on and there are people who just stand around doing nothing. Even after I yell, they don't move so I'M the one who has to move around them, to avoid colliding with them! Grr...

[icedancer2]

In the olden days we said "excuse me" a lot, which I will respond to much better than being yelled at by someone who is trying to skate through me.

Just my personal opinion.

[96.23??]

Originally posted by LilSk8er24
Accidents do happen, especially on crowded sessions! At my club the skater given priority of the ice is:
1. skater with music in a lesson
2. skater with music
3. skater in a lesson
4. others


That's the order of the right of way at our club too.

[LilSk8er24]

Originally posted by icedancer2
In the olden days we said "excuse me" a lot, which I will respond to much better than being yelled at by someone who is trying to skate through me.

Just my personal opinion.

Yah, well, "excuse me" for us does NOT work. Thrust me, it doesn't. Oh well, I guess you could say whatever works for you. Personally, I usually don't have to yell anything because I skate usually skate on Intermediate/Senior sessions because I'm on Junior Silver and that's Intermediate for us, and it's not as crowded as the lower level sessions. I've skated with these skaters for a while and we always (well most of the time) pay attention when a skater's name is called so we don't interfer with their programs. Plus, we can see when someone's having a new program choreographed because the skaters or coaches themselves tell us. If I do have to yell, I just say, "Sorry! Coming through!"

[sk8er1964]

I was in a jump today, and somebody skated dangerously close to me. We were all in a lesson, and this isn't the first time this has happened. So -- I figure that if I had taken a slice out of somebody's leg in this instance, I would have had right of way since I was in the air. Grrrr - can't wait until I am in the fall session without this hassle (I'll be at a different club)!

BTW, as far as the original question goes, at my club it is:

1. Program (and we have an ice monitor to ensure nobody hogs the cd/tape player)
2. Lessons
3. Everyone else (although people try really hard to avoid others in a dance or MIF pattern).

People in their program have to wear an orange vest. I find this very helpful, especially at the start of a new season/session because I might not know everybody's program (and they might not know mine :))

[icedancer2]

Originally posted by LilSk8er24
Yah, well, "excuse me" for us does NOT work. Thrust me, it doesn't. Oh well, I guess you could say whatever works for you. Personally, I usually don't have to yell anything because I skate usually skate on Intermediate/Senior sessions because I'm on Junior Silver and that's Intermediate for us, and it's not as crowded as the lower level sessions. I've skated with these skaters for a while and we always (well most of the time) pay attention when a skater's name is called so we don't interfer with their programs. Plus, we can see when someone's having a new program choreographed because the skaters or coaches themselves tell us. If I do have to yell, I just say, "Sorry! Coming through!"

Well, in those olden days I skated with National and World Champions and they said "excuse me" as well.

I think it's just another way that our society is deteriorating, just in terms of common courtesy, etc. I have been appalled by some of the attitudes I have seen at some rinks at some sessions, where I overhear kids saying, "Just run 'em down" and things like that. It is appalling. I even had one coach tell me to just "knock them down" when people tried to skate dangerously close to my dance patterns, etc. I didn't stay with him very long.

I wish we had separate sessions for Moves because it's hard to practice some of them on crowded sessions, especially when you are getting ready to test. I had a young woman slam me on the ice 2 months ago -- she was practicing Junior Moves (Power Cross-overs?) and as she was coming out of the move in a long arabesque backwards on one foot she slammed me back-to-back (I was doing figures near the center of the rink) -- I didn't see her coming and was hurt very badly -- in fact I'm seeing the chiropractor again tomorrow. Her coach just smiled and said, "You were in each other's blind spots" -- in MY opinion she could have seen me especially since I was working all in one spot.

Sometimes you just can't help but crash, but I will not tolerate rudeness out there!

[LilSk8er24]

Originally posted by icedancer2
I wish we had separate sessions for Moves because it's hard to practice some of them on crowded sessions, especially when you are getting ready to test. I had a young woman slam me on the ice 2 months ago -- she was practicing Junior Moves (Power Cross-overs?) and as she was coming out of the move in a long arabesque backwards on one foot she slammed me back-to-back (I was doing figures near the center of the rink) -- I didn't see her coming and was hurt very badly -- in fact I'm seeing the chiropractor again tomorrow. Her coach just smiled and said, "You were in each other's blind spots" -- in MY opinion she could have seen me especially since I was working all in one spot.

Sometimes you just can't help but crash, but I will not tolerate rudeness out there!


We do have seperate sessions for moves! It's ridiculously dangerous because over the summer, on a skills (moves) session, you can't even do a full pattern without stopping or crashing into someone. And some of the moves are done backwards. I've had some pretty nasty accidents on moves sessions. Including one that landed me in a hospital. Were both of you backwards when she slammed into you? Because if you both were, then neither you could have seen each other.

[LilSk8er24]

Originally posted by sk8er1964
I was in a jump today, and somebody skated dangerously close to me. We were all in a lesson, and this isn't the first time this has happened. So -- I figure that if I had taken a slice out of somebody's leg in this instance, I would have had right of way since I was in the air. Grrrr - can't wait until I am in the fall session without this hassle (I'll be at a different club)!

BTW, as far as the original question goes, at my club it is:

1. Program (and we have an ice monitor to ensure nobody hogs the cd/tape player)
2. Lessons
3. Everyone else (although people try really hard to avoid others in a dance or MIF pattern).

People in their program have to wear an orange vest. I find this very helpful, especially at the start of a new season/session because I might not know everybody's program (and they might not know mine :))

I wish my club would have orange vests! We used to have neon pink arm bands but the board decided we didn't need them any more.

[icedancer2]

Originally posted by LilSk8er24
We do have seperate sessions for moves! It's ridiculously dangerous because over the summer, on a skills (moves) session, you can't even do a full pattern without stopping or crashing into someone. And some of the moves are done backwards. I've had some pretty nasty accidents on moves sessions. Including one that landed me in a hospital. Were both of you backwards when she slammed into you? Because if you both were, then neither you could have seen each other.

Yes, I could see where this could be a problem, too. Seems like you just have to find some time when you are on the ice with only a few people to practice some of those upper-level Moves! At least with figures we all got our own patch of ice and crashes were very few and far between!

She was going backwards and I was doing a forward outside eight or serpentine -- moving very slowly doing the figure. I didn't see her coming. Very scary!

[tazsk8s]

Our rink's priority for rights-of-way is the same as a lot of others...person whose music is playing, followed by lessons, followed by everyone else. Actual collisions are pretty rare, but we have plenty of close calls. We used to have a couple of coaches at our rink who were **awful** about teaching their little ones to watch out for others, so certain sessions were all but useless due to the 'clueless factor'.

Regarding "excuse me", I have mixed feelings about that one. I understand the need to warn someone if you're coming up behind them, but I've seen kids bellow "excuse me" at someone who is fifteen feet away and clearly not heading in their direction. Or who holler "excuse me" **every** time they are heading into a jump in their program. That kind of thing gets obnoxious in a hurry.

Can't really complain about summer ice, though. The kids are all skating during the day (mine included) so the evening sessions are deserted. Tonight it was me, another adult skater, and our coach. My friend stood off to the side and watched my program run-through. No worries about slicing anyone on my back spiral! I love summer and dread the fall when everyone is fighting over the sparse evening ice we do have.

[icedancer2]

Originally posted by tazsk8s
[Can't really complain about summer ice, though. The kids are all skating during the day (mine included) so the evening sessions are deserted. Tonight it was me, another adult skater, and our coach. My friend stood off to the side and watched my program run-through. No worries about slicing anyone on my back spiral! I love summer and dread the fall when everyone is fighting over the sparse evening ice we do have. [/B]

This is interesting -- we generally skate during the day and so absolutely dread the summer ice scene -- during the fall-winter-spring our sessions are mostly populated by adults, some days sparsely and other days are more busy. This summer has been better because they've introduced some Adult/Ice Dance noon-time sessions which have been great.

Sorry to ramble away from topic. It is a habit of mine.

[Mrs Redboots]

This morning the rink was more crowded than usual as it's summer, and I think some of the coaches are going away at the end of the week, so people were having their lessons early. Anyway, I was doing Field Moves in my lesson, and a couple of times I had to significantly reduce my pattern as skaters were in my way, but I noticed that any time someone saw that I was having to do that because of them, they apologised. And realised what I was doing, and looked out for it next time.

It tends to be like that at our rink - the older and more experienced skaters tend to do the avoiding..... obviously, priorities are the same as elsewhere, plus, of course, people with competitions coming up probably get to hog the music a bit more than those with nothing on the horizon until Christmas.

[LilSk8er24]

Originally posted by Mrs Redboots
It tends to be like that at our rink - the older and more experienced skaters tend to do the avoiding..... obviously, priorities are the same as elsewhere, plus, of course, people with competitions coming up probably get to hog the music a bit more than those with nothing on the horizon until Christmas.
Yes, it's like that here too. Skaters with competitions coming get to hog the music machine, plus there's always training ice available. If no one's using the machine, then they either put the radio on (like some music station) or give skaters chance to have their music twice in a session, if no one else needs it.

[tazsk8s]

Originally posted by icedancer2
This is interesting -- we generally skate during the day and so absolutely dread the summer ice scene -- during the fall-winter-spring our sessions are mostly populated by adults, some days sparsely and other days are more busy.

LOL - if I skated during the day, I'd dread summers too. Unfortunately there is this small matter of having to work full time to pay for this sport...:)

[becca]

When skaters are not doing elements or run-throughs at our rink they skate around the outside of the rink (ccw). This means that even on a crowded session you only have to worry about people who are actually doing stuff, not people who are between elements and just sort of wandering. It works really well.

[icedancer2]

Originally posted by tazsk8s
LOL - if I skated during the day, I'd dread summers too. Unfortunately there is this small matter of having to work full time to pay for this sport...:)

After 20 years of working the old ( to 5, I finally figured out my priorities and found a way to work full time and find time to skate during the day. My only question is: why did it take me so long?:)

[TashaKat]

Originally posted by icedancer2
Well, in those olden days I skated with National and World Champions and they said "excuse me" as well.

I think it's just another way that our society is deteriorating, just in terms of common courtesy, etc. I have been appalled by some of the attitudes I have seen at some rinks at some sessions, where I overhear kids saying, "Just run 'em down" and things like that. It is appalling. I even had one coach tell me to just "knock them down" when people tried to skate dangerously close to my dance patterns, etc. I didn't stay with him very long.

Yes, I've had that too! When you've got the coaches telling them not to yield under ANY circumstances (and behaviour begets behaviour!) then the whole thing just degenerates into one appalling mess. One of our 'skating princesses' actually jumped into one of my coaches! We were doing spins, she was NOT in a lesson but running through her jumps and actually LOOKED at my coach, jumped anyway and spiked her in the calf with her toepick! The coach was one of those who doesn't care about anyone else on the rink and the kid had just carried through this behaviour! Neither coach nor pupil apologised.

[Candleonwater]

I've taught my daughter to say "excuse me" when she's skating to her music (with orange belt on, therefore the right of way), however since she is a Tot/no test skater sometimes on sessions with Junior/Senior level skaters, they pretty much ignore her. We actually had a FS session last week with 25+ skaters and my daughter came off the ice and told me she wasn't able to skate - it just wasn't safe! I told her to get back out there, but stressed that she has to watch out for other skaters... which she is getting MUCH better at! 8O

[Mrs Redboots]

I just wish free skating coaches who have never danced would learn that dancers are apt to be on a particular pattern, just like free skaters doing their programmes are.... we have one coach who, if she happens to look out for the dancers, it's a matter for congratulatory comment!

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by Mrs Redboots
I just wish free skating coaches who have never danced would learn that dancers are apt to be on a particular pattern, just like free skaters doing their programmes are.... we have one coach who, if she happens to look out for the dancers, it's a matter for congratulatory comment!

I try to avoid sessions with dancers on them as much as possible, especially with couples who are dancing. The reason is two-fold:

1 - I don't know the dances, so I don't know where the dancers are going.

2 - It seems like the dancers are always in a pattern. With freestyle, you are only in a pattern if you are working on MIF's or doing sections of your program. Therefore, it's easier to get around each other. Around here, (and I'm not saying it's this way anywhere else, so please don't jump on me), it seems like the dancers always expect everyone to move out of their way, no matter what you are doing, because they are in a pattern. Of course, this is at a club who's main ice rule seems to be the person who can intimidate the most gets right-of-way :roll:.