Log in

View Full Version : Coach Abuse


sonora
06-25-2003, 05:19 PM
A young coach recently started teaching learn to skate. This coach was a high level skater, a regional medalist, a national medalist in synchro, and has two gold test medals from the USFSA. She has also coached learn to skate as well as privates at a different rink.

She was teaching a low level free skate class when an upset mom interrupted her in the middle of the class to berate her. The mom was upset because the coach had the kids in the class working on some stroking exercises. The mom proceeded to criticize the coach for not teaching a toe loop, and loudly proclaimed for all to hear that the coach probably wasn't teaching a toe loop because she didn't know how to do one. (The coach by the way had several triples when she skated).

The coach properly told the mother that she would have to speak with the mother after class time and she couldn't interrupt class time to talk with her. The angry mother went to the skating director and demanded a refund of her fees.

Your reaction? What would you parents do if you heard another parent create this sort of scene? Do you all know what sorts of credentials a coach should have, and how to check them?

dbny
06-25-2003, 05:37 PM
I would keep my distance from the scene maker. I would also be pretty miffed if someone interrupted my child's lesson so very rudely.

Regarding a coach's qualifications, I always keep in mind that coaching and skating are two different things. I know coaches who can do all sorts of things, but can't teach them. Their only teaching technique is to say "do this". As far as credentials go, anyone can join the PSA (Professional Skaters Association). Even if someone has passed one or more of their tests, it still does not make them a good coach. I know some excellent coaches who have never bothered to join the PSA as they don't think it is worth their while.

I will soon be faced with finding a new coach, due to a move. I'm going to watch the private lessons very carefully, looking for temperament, skating skills (I need demo's myself), and time spent explaining things. I'm not looking forward to this.

Elsy2
06-25-2003, 06:59 PM
My reaction...."there goes another whacky skatemom that thinks she knows better than the coach".....she is just making a fool of herself IMO, and I would also stay out of the situation, unless this mom continued to interupt lessons time, then I'd complain to the director.
I'm sure the skating director has seen this sort of thing before. Hopefully, the director refunded her money and she is outta there.....off to another rink where her child can learn to jump, but not necessarily learn to skate.

kayskate
06-28-2003, 02:09 PM
I would not be surprized if this parent stirs up similar trouble at the child's school. This behavior is probably not unique for her. She probably does it all the time in various cirsumstances.

Kay

roogu
06-28-2003, 03:13 PM
Actually, this behaviour isn't isn't unique to any rink at all. It's always a common sight when group lessons are going on for the lower learn to skate or just starting figure skating sessions. It's funny too, because this exact example is one of the problems we had to answer on one of the coaching exams in level 1 here in Canada.

I mean, the mom first of all, obviously doesn't know jack about skating. Without stroking, skaters have weak basics and with weak basics, skaters are gonna have horrific jumps. If they can't even stroke into a jump, how does the mom expect the kid to be able to successfully do the entry, let alone, the actual jump?

I'm glad to see that the coach did everythign right. The mother can complain all she wants to the other coaches or the director ..... and they'll all see that she's the one who's insane.

garyc254
07-08-2003, 01:21 PM
My reaction: Some parents should never have been allowed to be parents.

Black Sheep
07-19-2003, 12:24 PM
As an new instructor (starting this fall), parents like these are what I fear most. :roll:

CanAmSk8ter
07-20-2003, 02:47 PM
I've been lucky so far- I don't think I've had to deal with any real wack-job parents. Then again, most parents at my rink know that they'll just be told to talk to the director if they have issues, so most of them go right to her.

One class at my rink was having issues awhile ago. I had taught the class the previous session, and the girls were all close in age and a bit chatty. The coach who had been assigned to them for the new session isn't known for being able to control difficult classes. Apparently, every parent had spoken to the director within two weeks- all the kids were complaining that they didn't like the new teacher and wanted me back! The director observed the class the next week and then switched me back to it. The parents were all nice about it, though; they were just concerned that the new coach spent much of the class trying to get their attention, and then when she tried to get them to do something, they would tell her that wasn't how I taught them to do it. Rather than say, "Well, I teach it this way," she would get into this long discussion with them about which way was "right".

Especially with a class, the coach has to be in control. My #1 suggestion for parents would be, if you have a concern about how the class is run, don't bring it up in front of your child. Talk with the coach one on one, or go to the director.

WeBeEducated
07-20-2003, 05:26 PM
Too many unqualified people teach Learn to Skate classes I think.
I have noticed a huge difference in young skaters who had the good fortune to start out with high level coaches and those that got stuck with low level skaters/coaches.
They are often taught wrong, and neither they nor their parents know until the damage is done.

skaternum
07-20-2003, 07:49 PM
I agree with WeBeEducated. At the various rinks where I skate, I'd have to guess that almost half of the Learn To Skate instructors can barely skate themselves and are not very good at teaching. This is slightly tangential, so I'll bring it back to topic by saying that I volunteered to "assist" a class at one local rink. I was working with a bunch of 5 year olds. That particular rink is known for using too many volunteers and not enough qualified coaches, which had always bugged me. After all, the rink is a for-profit enterprise. Anyway, on the 4th week, some parent came over and started chewing me out because his little darling wasn't getting enough private attention. (It's a CLASS, fercryingoutloud, not a private lesson.) I was already in the throes of PMS, so it really hit me the wrong way. After that class, I never went back!

CanAmSk8ter
07-21-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by WeBeEducated
They are often taught wrong, and neither they nor their parents know until the damage is done.

True. I knew one coach who is good at working with kids and is very encouraging, and continues to pick up new students because of this, but also teaches really poor technique. I see this coach's students doing waltz jumps and singles, and know that there is no way they'll ever be able to do an axel or doubles without major overhaul of the entire jump. Stroking, for these skaters, is like an afterthought. Many of them are in Freestyle 2 and 3 and are still toe pushing on their stroking and crossovers. The parents just don't know, and by the time they learn, like WeBe said, it's usually too late to fix them easily.

The thing with these coaches is that they usually are qualified to teach somewhat. Like I said, this coach is very encouraging and good with kids, and is an excellent coach for real beginners. Many coaches are. What separates a good beginner coach from a really good beginner coach is that a really good beginner coach will tell the parents when the time comes, "I can't take her any further, she should try taking from x, y, or z". As a coach, I wouldn't dream of trying to teach a kid an axel without at least working with another coach. I quit singles at 16 to focus on dance, and while I had three fairly consistant doubles, jumping was never my strength. I know I can teach single jumps competently, but I wouldn't dream of trying to teach beyond that by myself, any more than I would try to teach a pair team to do anything beyond stroke together.

dbny
07-28-2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by WeBeEducated
Too many unqualified people teach Learn to Skate classes I think.
I have noticed a huge difference in young skaters who had the good fortune to start out with high level coaches and those that got stuck with low level skaters/coaches.
They are often taught wrong, and neither they nor their parents know until the damage is done.

Well, I have to say again, and feeling a bit defensive too, that being a high level skater does not make one a good coach just as being a low level skater does not make one a bad coach. Being a low level skater can definitely limit what a coach can demo, but not necessarily what they can teach. Coaching requires a thorough knowledge of technique, a good eye for catching errors, and a creative mind for getting the necessary corrections across to different individuals. Let's not even get into personality here, as there is obviously no one perfect coaching personality for every student.

96.23??
07-28-2003, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by dbny
Well, I have to say again, and feeling a bit defensive too, that being a high level skater does not make one a good coach just as being a low level skater does not make one a bad coach. Being a low level skater can definitely limit what a coach can demo, but not necessarily what they can teach. Coaching requires a thorough knowledge of technique, a good eye for catching errors, and a creative mind for getting the necessary corrections across to different individuals. Let's not even get into personality here, as there is obviously no one perfect coaching personality for every student.


I agree totally with this. I am a skater working on my Junior silver Free, Jr/Sr Silver dances, and Sr silver Skills, and I help coach Learn To Skate classes.

I don't think being a high level skater makes a better coach. If a coach with a lower skating level can explain things more clearly in a certain way that can make things click for kids than someone else at a higher skating level but can't get across the corrections I think that is what can help the kids the most.

sonora
07-28-2003, 08:27 PM
Being a high level skater in and of itself does not make one a good coach. However, if the skater has accomplished a lot herself, the likelihood that she has good habits, for example stroking down in the knees, is greater.

It is just one thing a parent should look at. Other factors would be:

1) Test and competition successes of the coach's students
2) Insurance!
3) References
4) Temperament

And of course the goals of the student should be considered. A test skater does not have the same coaching needs as a competitive skater.

Mrs Redboots
07-29-2003, 12:17 PM
Surely most ice teachers will have done some sort of training and received a professional qualification? Here, you have to train for at least two years (not full-time) to get a Level 1 qualification - and you may not teach without supervision until you are Level 2!

I don't know any rinks who would employ unqualified teachers - this because of insurance issues as much as anything else. Level 1 coaches can and do take group lessons, and very occasionally totally unqualified skaters do - last Sunday, for instance, many of our teachers were away at the British Solo Ice-Dance Championships, so some ordinary people had to be drafted in to help. This is permissible as long as they are supervised and the supervisor is on the ice at the same time.

But any teachers from whom you take private lessons, whether you are strapping on hired skates for the first time or have been skating for fifty years, are qualified professionals, have trained and worked extremely hard to get where they are, and are as deserving of respect as any other professional.

dbny
07-29-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Mrs Redboots
Surely most ice teachers will have done some sort of training and received a professional qualification?

Not in the US. There are absolutely no required qualifications. Anyone sponsored by a current member can join the Professional Skaters Association, although to earn a rating, one does have to pass both a written exam (including one in Sports Sciences and Medicine) and an oral exam after the Basic Accreditation level. Additionally, 28 credits must be completed over a 3 year period at educational events sponsored by the PSA, ISI or Skate Canada. PSA Ratings (http://www.skatepsa.com/homepage.html)

I'm about to send in my application, and hope to earn my Basic Accreditation as soon as time permits. I love teaching, and have found that I do have a talent with tots (big surprise to me) and scared adult beginners :lol:

garyc254
07-29-2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by dbny
Well, I have to say again, and feeling a bit defensive too, that being a high level skater does not make one a good coach just as being a low level skater does not make one a bad coach..... Coaching requires a thorough knowledge of technique, a good eye for catching errors, and a creative mind for getting the necessary corrections across to different individuals.

This goes in all sports. Most great baseball, football, and basketball coaches were never professional players in their sport.

TashaKat
08-22-2003, 05:52 AM
Originally posted by Mrs Redboots
Surely most ice teachers will have done some sort of training and received a professional qualification? Here, you have to train for at least two years (not full-time) to get a Level 1 qualification - and you may not teach without supervision until you are Level 2

If only that were true! I know someone who is doing her stage 1 (must be coming towards the end) who can hardly turn a 3-turn! Her 'supervised' lessons are barely supervised and my mum actually couldn't tell the difference between the trainee coach and her pupil! In fact I know far too many people who I don't believe should be even allowed to start their coaching levels :evil:

In the last course that I did I was taught by someone who has LOWER skating test passes than myself ..... mmmmm I could probably get my Level 2 qualification but I am by no means 'good' enough to teach (IMO). I prefer the 'old' method where you had to be at least Silver (the old 'PROPER' Silver where being 'Silver' or 'Gold' actually meant something .... but that's another gripe) before you could teach. I completely agree that a good skater doesn't make a good teacher but I also believe that you should have a good working knowledge of the basics before being let loose on the public! A lot of people think that it's ok for beginners to be taught by the lower lever/trainee teachers but IMO the basics are probably the hardest part of skating (ok, apart from quads ;) ) to do correctly and any errors in the basics is only magnified when you come to do the harder stuff. :roll:

How is skating going to progress unless the coaching quality is maintained instead of being diluted?

:roll:

x

IceDanceSk8er
08-22-2003, 12:30 PM
There's a very successful coach here in Boston who has learned the secret to identifying parents like the one sonora described. He watches to see who walks through the door first. If its the student, then he has high hopes for a successful coach-student relationship. But if it's the parent walking at full stride, then fasten your seat belts 'cos we're gonna be in for a bumpy ride :)

Elsy2
08-22-2003, 04:05 PM
Initially I thought that coach in Boston was very clever.....until I realized that I'm a skate parent who always strides in the rink first....8O I have to say that I am a coaches dream of a skateparent compared to some.

mikawendy
08-22-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Elsy2
Initially I thought that coach in Boston was very clever.....until I realized that I'm a skate parent who always strides in the rink first....8O I have to say that I am a coaches dream of a skateparent compared to some.

Elsy2, I bet that one huge difference between you and the "dreaded" skateparents is that you are also a parent who skates. At the risk of making a broad generalization, I think that some parents who skate have a better understanding of the coach-student (and coach-parent) relationship because these parents themselves are learning from someone else how to skate.

Mrs Redboots
08-25-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by IceDanceSk8er
There's a very successful coach here in Boston who has learned the secret to identifying parents like the one sonora described. He watches to see who walks through the door first. If its the student, then he has high hopes for a successful coach-student relationship. But if it's the parent walking at full stride, then fasten your seat belts 'cos we're gonna be in for a bumpy ride :) Does that always work, though? Some of the pushiest parents send their skater in first to get changed, while they deal with paying for the session, or signing in, or whatever formalities have to be undergone.... And sometimes, if they have had a long journey to get there, the skater runs in first to get to the loo....