Frustration

[michelle K]

Backspin is indeed evil!

I am backspin retarded. I can't say my forward one foot spin is that great either, but at least that one consistantly spins.

Two other adult skating friends who started to learn backspin with me are much much better at backspin, while I think my forward spin is a tad bit better than theirs. My sister's backspin is stronger than her forward spin even though she learned forward spin way way ahead of back spin. I know I shouldn't compare myself with others, but it makes me really frustrated to see others progress while I am struggling.

Actually, I suck at everything that includes "back" in it.
Back edge on circles and backward crossovers are still terrible when I have been working on them for over a year. I cannot get off the toe pick! Nine out of ten three turns and forward one foot spins are on toe pick. Ahh!!! it's driving me crazy. I even cannot make a simple backward gliding into a walt jump without dragging the toe pick, ever since I changed to new boots and blades over a year ago.

It's not surprising that I cannot do a backspin, perhaps. I make a good effort to be on the outside back edge for the spin, but it's just darn hard. I cannot stay away from the toe pick. Even if I manage to be on the back outside edge to get the spin going, my upper body refuse to spin along and the spin is ended as my body gets twisted at the waist (CCW spinner). I can not seem to be able to open my left shoulder. Is this what fear can do to you? What could I do to improve my backspin? Should I consciously throw back my left shoulder? I am very desperate, I need at least two revolutions and one foot exit in my backspin to pass the test this weekend. Help, please!

[kayskate]

Don't feel too bad. I don't know how long you have been skating, but the bspin is difficult for many people, more difficult than a basic forward spin. It took me a very long time to get off the inside edge, and my bspin is still not as strong as my forward. I have been skating 10+ yrs and am an adult skater. You might want to get the perspective of another coach. One coach gave me a tip that really helped. He told me to approach it like a bcamel and keep the free leg behind until the peak of the turn, then bring it quickly around into place. You may need a fresh perspective too.

Kay

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by michelle K
I even cannot make a simple backward gliding into a walt jump without dragging the toe pick, ever since I changed to new boots and blades over a year ago.


Have you had your skates checked to make sure that the blade is in the right place? If the blades are mounted incorrectly, that can cause all sorts of problems. Another thought - are your toepicks too big for your level of skating? What kind of blades are you using?

[backspin]

Backspin is NOT evil!! Backspin is a nice, nice girl who we all love and cherish. :mrgreen:

My backspin, although my namesake, is pretty weak, although it is improving in an encouraging way lately. I found my biggest problem was that I leave my right side behind, & fall out of it, which sounds like what might be happening to you.

I found that if I focus on the right arm (because then the rest of the body follows) leading into the 3-turn, & continuing to pull sort of across my body into the spin it made a world of difference. I realized that, before, my right arm had been left so far behind that I couldn't even see it!

Also it helps to make sure your left (free) foot gets truly crossed over the skating foot, not leading into the spin.

Backspins are VERY hard, seems for a lot of people. Diligence pays off, don't give up!

[BittyBug]

There are definitely exercises that should help. Here are a few:

- try the spin as more of a pirouette rather than with the normal spin entry - in other words, start from a stopped position with your free leg extended, but on the ice, and your arms out - then pull your arms in and cross your foot at the same time - this can help you get comfortable with having your weight over the correct side of your body

- make a circle on the ice with a diameter slightly less than your height - skate on a forward inside edge along the arc of the circle with your lead arm extended over your skating foot and your leg tracking slightly outside the arc of the circle - hold this position for as long as you can, and then pull in - you will almost naturally either turn or spin

- practice on the floor without your skates on (socks on a wood or tile floor works well)

Good luck.

[michelle K]

Thank you all for your encouragement and tips.
I have been skating for about two year and a half. I am a weekend skater. There is no ice rinks for me to skate before or after work.
I could never get enough of skating before, but as my skills progressed into spins and jumps, I am getting more and more frustrated with slow progress of the lack of it. Ahhh... who said skating is easy anyway.

I switched from a crappy set of blades to Ultima Vantage when I started to do toe loops. Wow, what a toe pick. I like the blade as they feel very stable but the toe pick seems to much for me...

I think I should have my skates checked out. The problem is my coach is not that helpful in that department and I really don't know who to consult with. My backward skating problem is more obvious with my right skate. I collapse too much when I do FI edge and have a very shallow outside of none on FO. Right boot always feels a little too big too. Either I lace too tight to skate or heels come up and down.

I will return to the ice this Saturdays and try your tips.


backspin, of course you're not eveil ;) . You sound like a very sweet person.

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by michelle K
I think I should have my skates checked out. The problem is my coach is not that helpful in that department and I really don't know who to consult with. My backward skating problem is more obvious with my right skate. I collapse too much when I do FI edge and have a very shallow outside of none on FO. Right boot always feels a little too big too. Either I lace too tight to skate or heels come up and down.


If I were you, I'd ask around your rink for suggestions for a good skate shop. For example, I know of 2 who I'd swear by - one does Reidells and the other Klingbeils. I tell other skaters about both, when asked. I think you might be able to get some help that way. Where does your coach take or buy his/hers? That might be an option too - IMO, your coach, assuming you are a private lesson student, should be able to help you with stuff like this. When my old skates got too big (lost weight), my coach and I discussed my feet and my abilities, and he suggested Klingbeils - I went with his advice and I haven't regretted the switch.

[sk8er1964]

Oops - went to edit my last post and ended up quoting myself :oops: .

[eliao]

I share my frustration with the backspin with you! I can do forward scratch spins, camel spins, sit spins and I'm getting my forward layback, but switch me to the other leg and I am a total klutz! I can get a few revolutions in, but if I try at all to pull in, I fall into my inside edge. I've made a point to try to practice backspins more, as I've ignored it for far too long. I can do a nice backspin on my wood floors with socks on though! :)

Emily

[cparakeet]

I think, is that you need to stand very *very* tall and vertical on your spinning leg with all your weight centered on the blade right behind the toe pick. Imagine a pole straight down that axis of your body. Don't let your core sag one inch. If you sag anywhere, the spin will either throw you off balance, or you will end up spinning back inside.

When learning this spin, it's ok, actually extremely helpful to anchor yourself in the ice by planting the toe pick in deeper than necessary. Yes, you may scratch a lot but it'll do two important things

1) minimize travel
2) Keep you on the back outside edge.

Try to take the entry from a pivot instead of a Forward inside three turn from a standstill. The pivot entry is far more stable than the 3 turn. Too often people skate too fast into the forward inside three and then end up spinning forward inside, which is a really hard to get of habit.

[fan]

whenever i do a backspin i end up on my OUTSIDE edge. anyone help?

[tazsk8s]

Originally posted by fan
whenever i do a backspin i end up on my OUTSIDE edge. anyone help?

Ahhhhh - this is GOOD! You WANT to be on an outside edge - so you need to tell US your tips! :D :D :D

[jazzpants]

Originally posted by tazsk8s
Ahhhhh - this is GOOD! You WANT to be on an outside edge - so you need to tell US your tips! :D :D :D Me too!!! Me too!!! :lol:

Seriously, I agree with the pivot method, since it took a LOOONG while for me to get off the inside edge habit using the FI3 entry!!! It does force it on the BO edge from the get-go right away. It also preps you for that nasty change foot spins that you need to pass ISI 3. Then again, I personally HATE the pivot method, since my pivot sucks and I don't get enough speed going to spin more than a rev!!! BUUUUT *sigh* I need a change foot spin, so I'm practicing that too. :roll:

I have a friend who goes in from a TIGHT BO circle right into a backspin. He has a decent backspin. Only took him a few weeks too! GRRRR!!!

If you're doing it from a FI entry though, you better have a good FI3 to start with. Hold the FI edge for AT LEAST a half circle before you "flip" (3 turn) onto a BO edge. Keep the half circle small too.

Cheers,
jazzpants, who thinks *THE* backspin is :evil:, but we all love and cherish backspin, right? ;) :mrgreen: (michelle K, I did the same thing too a while back. Sure enough she pops right up!) :lol:

[icenut84]

Originally posted by cparakeet
Try to take the entry from a pivot instead of a Forward inside three turn from a standstill. The pivot entry is far more stable than the 3 turn.

Which pivot? FI, FO, BI or BO?

[jazzpants]

Originally posted by icenut84
Which pivot? FI, FO, BI or BO?

I'm not cparakeet, but...

(Stealing from one of my skating buddies Kevin Anderson's Technical Skating Page on backspins...)

For the beginner I like to recommend working on back pivots as preperation for the back spin. It's easier to get used to the "snap" doing it this way than the other common learning method, the right forward inside three turn. If you have problems with both these methods, the third way of working on it is to do a scratch spin. Instead of pulling in, put the right foot down and push off with the left foot in a motion that is basically the same as the back pivot. Unfortuneatly you'll rarely see somebody enter a backspin this way in a program. You usually see a back spin tagged on as either part of a combination spin or at the end of a special move like a butterfly. Which is what you see in the examples.

That reminds me... one day Kevin saw my "wall backspins"...nods and THEN says (covering his mouth and talk as if he's talking into a police megaphone) "Step away from the wall!!!" Another fellow skater of mine heard this and said "YES!!! THANK YOU KEVIN!!! That's telling her..."

Ha ha ha... Everyone's a comedian!!! :roll: :P

[Terri C]

I really hope not to make anyone mad here, but Backspin has been my best friend throughout this competition season:P !
The sitspin has not been so nice, however and the foward scratch can be fickle!:evil:

[Synchronized]

Actually, I suck at everything that includes "back" in it.
Back edge on circles and backward crossovers are still terrible when I have been working on them for over a year. I cannot get off the toe pick! Nine out of ten three turns and forward one foot spins are on toe pick. Ahh!!! it's driving me crazy. I even cannot make a simple backward gliding into a walt jump without dragging the toe pick, ever since I changed to new boots and blades over a year ago.



You know, although we don't just do crosscuts, synchro would really help with this. It really does improve your basic skating skills. I had very weak crosscuts going into my first year, and now they are flawless. It may be your boots, but most of the time basic stroking skills are not focused on too much with singles skaters.

[Mrs Redboots]

Originally posted by Synchronized
Actually, I suck at everything that includes "back" in it.So do I!Back edge on circles and backward crossovers are still terrible when I have been working on them for over a year. I cannot get off the toe pick! Nine out of ten three turns and forward one foot spins are on toe pick. Ahh!!! it's driving me crazy. I even cannot make a simple backward gliding into a walt jump without dragging the toe pick, ever since I changed to new boots and blades over a year ago. I keep asking how to get off my toe-pick and am told, every single time, to bend my knees more..... don't know if that helps?

[jazzpants]

Originally posted by Terri C
I really hope not to make anyone mad here, but Backspin has been my best friend throughout this competition season:P ! Backspin the trick or Backspin the skater??? (Sorry! I had to ask!) :lol: :P (I'm sure Backspin the skater is getting a good laugh out of a thread about her, right???) ;)

[jenlyon60]

Originally posted by Mrs Redboots
So do I! I keep asking how to get off my toe-pick and am told, every single time, to bend my knees more..... don't know if that helps?

Have you tried pressing down on your heel (so that the weight is further back on the blade)? I get regularly lectured about that from coach...both for forwards and backwards skating.

[Mrs Redboots]

Originally posted by jenlyon60
Have you tried pressing down on your heel (so that the weight is further back on the blade)? I get regularly lectured about that from coach...both for forwards and backwards skating. Thanks; I must try that. They keep telling me to get my weight further back, but don't tell me how....

[TreSk8sAZ]

Originally posted by jenlyon60
Have you tried pressing down on your heel (so that the weight is further back on the blade)? I get regularly lectured about that from coach...both for forwards and backwards skating.

A word of warning though for anyone trying this on spins! I was told the same thing for awhile because I spin on my toepick, until I actually did it! I pushed down while in an upright scratch spin and the back of my blade stuck in the ice. Although my leg stopped, the rest of my body kept spinning on my way down. I wrenched my knee and fell hard. Jose, a guy at my rink, actually sprained his knee by catching the back of his blade.

While it is good advice that many coaches use, BE CAREFUL how you practice it! Don't push down so hard that the back of your blade gets on ice. It's hard to get off the toepick once you get there! So when you push down, push in moderation as best you can!