age at which kids start skating

[nycbumpkin]

this came to mind because of the other thread about the 4 1/2 year old taking private lessons...i am truly confused about this. Is it even necessary for a kid that young to be in competitions? is it healthy? i am not saying it is not...i am asking for opinions...my own kid started "late" and is now a pretty competitive just-turned-12 intermediate...i often wonder where she'd be now if we'd started when she was 3, or even 6, instead of 9. She somtimes wonders this too, as in "i maybe would be a junior now! or a 12-year-old senior like Beatrisa Liang!!" And I wonder if that is healthy, either.

[jp1andOnly]

I started at age 4 but did not do any competitions until I was 11. Most kids don't compete that young. In Canada we have Canskate competitions...some are included with regular comps while others are held seperately. That allows for those skaters who have tkaen private lessons and have a 1 min program to compete. some of the kiddies are so cute, and some just cry. But if ya hate Disney music, best avoid the rink that day

[Dolly]

My daughter started skating at 2 (family skating with her older brother and sister). By 4, in real figure skates, she was off and running. At 5 she joined Canskate but didn't compete until she was 8 in pre-preliminary with a 1 minute 30 second solo. There were 16 skaters.(She won her first gold). All the kids in her level seemed to have fun; most got beanie babies or a stuffed animal, flowers, candy, photos taken.

Some of the advanced canskaters, who were younger, competed with 1 minute solos, 2 skaters performing at the same time on half ice. There was a first place, second place and I think all the rest came third. Pretty painless. However, in recent years, I've seen skaters as young as 5 compete at summer sectionals, which is considered a bigger comp. , some of them trying axels.They are getting younger skating at the summer schools, competing in several competitions a year. They are so cute but it shouldn't get too serious at that age. JMO I'm not sure where they will be at 12 though.

Presently, in my area, most of the 12 year olds (girls) are competing at pre-novice (intermedialte) and stay there for a few years since there's no age limit. They try to make the cut for Eastern/Western Challenge competitions, and then, hopefully, the cut for Junior Nationals. By the time they are 14/15, they may move to Novice. If they don't pass the pre-novice test by the age of 12, they compete Test Stream in Senior Bronze or Junior Silver. I don't know of any 12 year olds in my area competing in Junior.

[arena_gal]

General skating lessons:
Our learn to skate program, which starts at age 4 always fills up right away. 75% of the kids there are learning to skate for hockey which starts at age 5.

If they stick with figureskating, they do Canskate for a year (age 5), Advanced Canskate (age 6) and then pre-preliminary (age 7), usually doing one or two competitions a year (Stars and Interclub).

Figure skating lessons, with no previous skating experience:

The keen ones are 6 or 7, but most are age 8 and higher.

So you end up with skaters at the same age, but some have competed for 3 years, with cute one minute programs (cue: Aladdin..........)

Boys:

Either they're from a skating family which means they're out there at age 6 or 7, or they play hockey for a couple of years and start at age 10-11. They drift into figure skating because they take power skating - from the figure skating coach. The ones that start later do the same as the early ones, except, and I'll emphasize this, their programs are more loose and natural. There's just something about the little boys that start early, all their programs are over costumed and over choreographed. (cue: Star Wars.......) My personal opinion.

[Mrs Redboots]

Surely it depends on the child, and on the competition? I have known children as young as 6 compete very happily in local competitions, and often do very well. I'm sorry I shan't see a 6-year-old friend of mine competing in the forthcoming Lambeth Festival - she hasn't done a programme before, but her big sister (aged about 10) is now a relatively experienced competitive skater, and young P**** is very keen on having a go. Her mother (also a skater, but only competes in show numbers) reckons she's up for it.

These competitions are all artistic, rather than technical, so the children don't have to skate very well in order to portray a character. And young P**** makes a very convincing "Ugly Duckling"....

[BABYSKATES]

My daughter started skating at 4 1/2. There are good things about that and bad things about that. My daughter is very secure and fearless on the ice. On the other hand, since she didn't start out taking lessons seriously, she didn't develop the kind of work ethic the kids who started older have. Her work ethic sometimes holds her back, IMO.

It's hard to know what difference an early start ultimately makes to a skater because talent isn't standard issue. My daughter has advanced very well. She might have been in exactly the same spot no matter when she started. She's been in love with skating for 5 1/2 years, though. That is a good thing that has come out of her early start.

[StarshineXavier]

I started skating at 5, started private lessons at 7 and started competing at 9. At 4 1/2, I think it's too early to start private lessons. I think that skaters should have a year or two to develop a feel for the ice, and get their feet under them. Same goes for competing. I think the only exception to this is when a skater develops at a rapid rate, and is showing much potential to be a competitive skater. Then the lessons and competitions are beneficial to their development, but only if they're totally in love with the sport.

[sonora]

My philosophy is start them young with group lessons, Mommy & Me and supervised public session skating. As young as 3 if they're ready.

But make the kid BEG for it. No privates until the kid wants more, no team until the kids wants it, etc.

[Elsy2]

My son took basic skills 1 thru 4 group lessons at ages 5 and 6. By the end of Basic 4 he was done....it's possible if he had been older he might have had the maturity to stick with it longer. Or maybe it just wasn't something he was ever to love enough to stick with.

I think its hard to say if my daughter started earlier if she would have progressed faster. I think maybe not. At age 7, almost 8, she took her first group lessons and didn't want to continue. We didn't pursue it again for another year or so. She went back to basic skills classes at age 9, was hit by a car and broke her leg. She was off 6 months, returning a few months before she turned 10. We laugh about it now because she skated way better when she came back than before the accident. Maybe she was just more physically and mentally able to progress as she grew older. By age 14 she was at Intermediate, but had suffered some back problems that held her back along the way.

I guess my point is each child is different. For some an early start is too much too soon. For others it works just fine.

[Skatewind]

There's a reason you don't see the Tots category at very many competitions. It's because a lot of organizers & coaches think it's ridiculous to have competing at a very young age.

[CanAmSk8ter]

Originally posted by Skatewind
There's a reason you don't see the Tots category at very many competitions. It's because a lot of organizers & coaches think it's ridiculous to have competing at a very young age.

I don't know... my rink had a competition last week, and I had student in Tot 3 who just turned 5. She had a blast. She won her event, albeit skating against the book. What I think gets ridiculous is when you have parents driving all over creation so that a Tot-level kid can compete four, five, six times a year. But I've been at my current rink for three years now, and we've had preschoolers competing every year, and they all seem to have such a great time. This year we had a three-and-a-half-year-old competing in Pre-Alpha. I know the kid (I've taught her in group), I know the family- no psycho parents here, just a kid who likes to skate and get dressed up and have an audience. I'm not sure the kids this young even understand the concept of "competition" and of winning and losing, unless the parents are really pushing it.

Edited to add, there certainly are parents who get carried away with competition, even with kids this age. At least in my area, it's not much of an issue because we seldom have enough tots for them to actually compete against each other rather than against the book.

[LynRose]

My daughter started skating when she was 3.

Her first competition was a small regional one occured when she was 7,

Her first out of town, stay over night competition occured when she was 8. She loved to go and see the other skaters - especially their dresses. Neither her nor I took the competitions seriously. We had fun and went shopping, in addition to her skating the 1.5 minute solo.

She also began taking private lessons at the age of 8. Before that it was group lessons.

[Blayse_01]

I started skating when i was 2 1/2, and started competitions at the age of 7. I was doing good up until this year when my coach quit, (for money reasons), and we only had a level 1 coach teaching group lessons. last year, with the coach i've had for all of my skating career, i managed to get the only gold medal for my town, for the 2002 nfld and lab Winter Games. This year i got 2 medals (3 and 2) because there were only 3 people in those categories. :( I WANT MY COACH BACK!:cry:

[Candleonwater]

My daughter started skating at 3 mostly as an outlet for all her excess energy. Little did I know what it would become! Of course, I wanted her to play hockey!

She started in private lessons because she tends to learn better in a one on one situation, and naturally she just progressed into ISI competitions. Which, for her, is just fine since she LOVES to perform.

[NickiT]

Both my children were introduced to the ice very young as I took each of them along to the mums and toddlers classes when they were 2. Both started having lessons when they were 4 1/2 years old, but my eldest who is now 8 has dyspraxia so her progress has been very slow, and my son is not yet 6 so is still pretty young. I certainly can't say that starting them early has given them the edge, but the one thing I can say is that neither are afraid to fall and both jump back up after even what looks to be a big fall, and never make a fuss like a lot of the kids who started at a later age.

Nicki

[sk8er1964]

I started my son in learn to skate at just shy of 4. He did three classes, then moved over to that other ice sport - hockey - at age 5. He's 8 now, and he's usually one of the best skaters on his team each year (if only I could get him to figure skate....sigh).

[mackiecat]

my daughter started private lessons at 3 1/2 basically because she didn't have the attention span for a group lesson. The one-on-one time worked for her. Now at 4 1/2 she loves skating and competing. She is constantly skating around our family room and currently skates 2 hours a day, twice a week. her coach makes it fun for her. She has agroup lesson with another 41/2 year old at the same level and she loves beign with the other skaters. I have to say her first competition was an eye opener. She was in a category were all they could do was bunny hops and 2 foot jumps. She basically wanted the toys that she saw being thrown at the skaters on TV. There were kids in this category who were in it for the 2nd year! They should have been in a higher category but were there to win. I just wanted her to have funa and not do any illegal elements (which was what happened) She got 4th, went home with a trophy and wanted to know when she could do it again. I guess time will tell if thsi is the best approach but its working for now

[CanAmSk8ter]

It's true that if your rink has long classes, or large class sizes, privates may be more fun for a preschooler. I frequently teach the tots at my rink, and I've found that about half of them start to mentally "check out" after about twenty minutes. The classes, however, are thirty minutes long. I always try to spend the last five-ten minutes playing games. As for size, my rink is lucky to have several girls in the 12-15 y.o. age range who can't officially coach yet, but are happy to come help out. I've never had to teach more than maybe five preschoolers without a helper. But, having had this experience, I would definitely agree that at some rinks, privates would be a better option for a tot.

[Arsenette]

I've noticed that they start very young (not always but just a general observation). If you notice the amount of kids registering for those "Basic Skills" competitions and the lower level competitions - they are usually flooded with kids!!!

I personally don't mind them starting early so long as it's not the parents reasons to get them a gold medal at 16 :roll: I can see it being very enjoyable and not different than tap classes, music lessons or dance classes. So long as it continues to be fun - start them as early as you want ;) Heck.. my favorite is someone smaller than the height of the boards just bowl me over with a gorgeous smile, spunky attitude and a reason to be there. I saw this many times where you have a kid going "I wanna skate to I can show off my dress!!!!" or "I love my program!! It's fun!!".. so long as that language continues.. why not?

[twokidsskatemom]

My dd started at 3.75 and my son at 3.They both love to skate, my dd has competed in isi and both are going to skate in a family spotlight in march.
Both my kids are hams and love the ice. They have group lessons and my dd has privates too.They have no fear, are poised and spend as much time as they can on the ice. we arent pushing it but its their passion, not ours.Wherever they go with this, its their choice.My dd is working on bunny hops, lunges, spirials, and piviots.She is 4.75 now.We hope she picks something else after a few years but if this is her passion, then it is her passion.

[Justine_R]

Are test sessions only allow children from 5years and older to join.
I started skating at the age of 11 im 13 in 2 monthes and im working on doubles.

I think to put your child on skates would be any time over the age of 2 but not in lessons.

[Mrs Redboots]

I think that at our rink you have to be 4 to join the classes, but children do start younger, usually relations of present skaters, or teachers.

My own daughter was 14 when she started which, she said, was just the wrong age as she wasn't old enough to compete in adult competitions, where she could have been competitive after a year or so, but was totally not competitive against most skaters her age.

[dbny]

I think physical and emotional maturity and desire to skate have more to do with a successful start than age does. I've seen four year olds who just don't have the muscle tone yet to handle themselves safely on the ice, three year olds who are literally scared stiff, and kids aged three through six who just don't want to let go of mommy. Some kids also don't have the attention span required to focus on where their body parts are in space long enough to be successful. I often recommend a few short (usually twenty minute)private lessons for tots before joining a group. It's enough to discover if the little one is ready to skate, thus avoiding the tearful scenes that make everyone feel so bad when a group begins.

[luna_skater]

Most skaters I know started around age 3-5. But I've done things a bit backwards. :D

My parents put me in Canskate when I was 6 so I wouldn't have to cling to the boards when we went skating as a class in school. I'm not sure why they decided to keep registering me in it every winter--perhaps just so I would have a winter activity that wasn't swimming, which I HATED--because I can remember NOT wanting to go to skating more days than wanting to go. I had major shyness issues when I was young, so it was a few years before I participated in our club carnival, in the Canskate group number.

I started precision when I was 11, and continued in Canskate until I was 12. I was a big chicken when it came to jumps, so I was in no hurry to try and move up to a higher level!! The head coach finally suggested that I and another girl who was my age move up to Canfigure. After that season, I did precision during the winter, and Canfigure during the spring session for a couple of years. When I was about 14 or 15 I dropped Canfigure and just did precision.

I continued with precision until 2001 ("synchro" by then!), took a year off when my team folded, then started synchro again in the fall of 2002 in a new city. And last May, at age 22, I had my first ever private lesson!!

I have flown through my dance tests and am also working on skills. However, I think that if I had started dance and skills at an earlier age, I would not have been nearly as successful. Even though I've been skating for 17 years, I am more fearless now than when I was younger. Then again, you never know. Perhaps with the right coach when I was younger, and some individual attention, I would have achieved what I have now much earlier. But I'm happy with the way things have gone.

[twokidsskatemom]

We wanted to wait with our son, since his sister didnt start till she was 3.75, almost a year ago. we told him he had to wait till he was 3. i didnt think he would push it but he did !!! a new session started two weeks before his 3 bday and we put him in it. he loved it from the get go, just like she did.
that was 2 months ago, and he is sailing along. He is doing thing she didnt do after two months, but then he is a big as she is.They are both active kids, jumping off anything we let them.She didnt have the muscles and had to work harder, but then she got a bit bigger and all of a sudden was doing great strokes, just like over night.She amazes us, how happy she is out there, how graceful and fluid.She will be great at inteptive when she is older.they want to skate together but who knows.
She understands at 4.5 that she might not win next month, and there are always winners and people better than she is now.She wants to compete.She had a chance to either be in an ice show this month or compete in march and this is what She wanted.I know some people might not get that idea, but she is the one who skates, not us.
She will do a 1.10 peice herself, she and her bro are doing a family spotlight for 1.45 I think, she will do stroking and then they put her on a spiral team.The other kids on the team are much older, but they are very very sweet to both kids.

[sk84life]

i started skating when i was 4 1/2 and i finished basic skill by around 51/2 which is around when i went 2 my first competition and i came in 2nd and i loved it..i'm 13 now and i'm a intermediate skater.

[Isk8NYC]

Originally posted by dbny
I think physical and emotional maturity and desire to skate have more to do with a successful start than age does. I've seen four year olds who just don't have the muscle tone yet to handle themselves safely on the ice, three year olds who are literally scared stiff, and kids aged three through six who just don't want to let go of mommy. Some kids also don't have the attention span required to focus on where their body parts are in space long enough to be successful. I often recommend a few short (usually twenty minute)private lessons for tots before joining a group. It's enough to discover if the little one is ready to skate, thus avoiding the tearful scenes that make everyone feel so bad when a group begins.

Absolutely on the mark with this comment -- body and mind beats birthdate!

I teach two tots under 3 years old. The boy absolutely LOVES it and is streaking around after 3 lessons. The girl absolutely LOVES it but isn't as strong a skater. She just needs more time and practice. But a 30 minute lesson is a tad too long. 20 minutes is perfect for most of the tiny tots.

I also teach a few 5 and 6 year olds that won't pay attention because they're so focused on keeping Mom or Dad in sight (or grip!)

I started all of my girls on the winter ice puddles with helmets and boots as toddlers. My oldest I began group lessons at 4, mainly because I was teaching and didn't have a sitter. She HATED it and was a major distraction to me. I waited until she SHE asked to take lessons again at age 11. She loves it now. When my little ones asked for lessons at the same time, I let them join but set down the ground rules. They're terrors on the ice now, asking to go everytime I teach or we have a day off. (I'm at a nicer rink now, too)

One of my kids has the "competitive spirit" that would let her go far, but the other two could care less. Remember that every kid is different and you have to let them take the lead. As long as they're having fun and getting exercise, you're doing the right thing.

[TashaKat]

My friends' son started skating practically before he could walk (almost literally!), he was in the rink panto at 18 months old!! Mind you, mum is a coach and uncle is a coach and ex national champion .....

He's not pushed as such, in fact they didn't particularly want to encourage him to skate but he loves it, especially the attention from all the 'babes' (that's one boy who won't have problems relating to women when he gets older!). His mum 'teaches' him but only in short bursts, there's nothing serious because he's too young but he loves to mimic everyone else. He won his first competition at TWO!!!

If only I'd started at that age ..... sigh!

[AshBugg44]

My ex-coach's daughter first competed when she was 14 months old in Tot 1! She has now just turned 3 and is working on her crossovers. Obviously it was natural for her to start skating but even if her mom wasn't a coach, I don't see anything wrong with it. An 8 year old girl at my rink started skating when she was 2 (and started stretching then as well) and is now a pre-juvenille competitor through 2lutz (although cheated) and a spiral that rivals Sasha's.

[fadedstardust]

To the original poster:

I think it's great for kids as young as possible to learn the basics...stroking, crossovers, good posture, maybe shoot the ducks, 3-turns and the like. Most people who've read my posts on the other thread know that I am personally not for young kids doing difficult jumps (ie doubles and up), because I don't believe it's good for their bones (although I'm no doctor, it's my humble assumption), also, with growth spurts, it's common to lose jumps which will frustrate a LOT of skaters into quitting (especially considering there isn't just one growth spurt, and it's classic to lose jumps every 6 months while you're growing!), there's also kids burning out too early before they even developed an artistic expression side (or are old enough to enter Nationals)...I don't think kids competing before 10-12 years old is really worth much other than stage experience, which they can get in less taxing areas such as ballet or even drama...

I think that as a basic rule, because it's such a physically and emotionally taxing sport, the child should be old enough to have strong bones and a strong mind, and really know what they want out of the sport. That's the day it's worth getting serious, and it's different for every child. The strong bones, however, don't come early enough for most parents (and some kids), though.

-FadedStardust

[Lmarletto]

...I don't think kids competing before 10-12 years old is really worth much other than stage experience, which they can get in less taxing areas such as ballet or even drama...

This is something I've been wondering about. My impression is that most people seriously involved in this sport would strongly disagree.

My 5yo daughter has expressed interest in competing, but I think she really sees it as "performing". She spends a good bit of her public session ice time "dancing" to her own improvisational choreography and eagerly looks forward to her dance recitals. I don't want anything to spoil that enthusiastic self-expression and I worry that there would be no way to truly insulate her from the high pressure nonsense that goes on even at very low levels. I know some other parents at our rink think I'm slightly paranoid. :lol: Fortunately her coach (who has some pretty high level dance coaching experience) has a very low key approach with little ones.

Is a child who only skates once or twice a week and rarely, or never, competes until 8 or 10 going to be at a huge disadvantage if they decide to get serious at that point? I've kind of had the attitude that if she's really talented, there's no rush, and if she not really talented, well, there's no need to rush either.

[twokidsskatemom]

Originally Posted by fadedstardust
...I don't think kids competing before 10-12 years old is really worth much other than stage experience, which they can get in less taxing areas such as ballet or even drama..


but if you have a child that doesnt want to do those things but wants to skate, what should you do? make them do something they dont want to do or let them enjoy something they love?

[Mrs Redboots]

I don't think kids competing before 10-12 years old is really worth much other than stage experience, which they can get in less taxing areas such as ballet or even drama...Surely that depends on the competition, no? I agree, I hate to see young children being "hothoused" and made to practice for hours, and yelled at if they goof off for a second - but, oh, how they love having a little programme to show off to Mummy and Daddy, and many of them love competing as well - a chance to dress up in a frilly, sparkly dress, be allowed to wear make-up (don't underestimate the joy of that for the under-tens!) and loads of glitter in their hair! And they learn that taking part is what matters, and winning isn't everything. Plus the whole competition atmosphere is such fun, and so different from tests, which tend to be a Serious Business.

I'm sure there's a "window" for that. An 11-year-old friend of mine took part in her first competition on Tuesday evening. It was only the annual "Hop, step and jump" that they all do - at that level, they were asked to show a cherry flip (toe loop), upright spin and forwards spiral, each element being performed individually and in turn, and with closed marking (unusual here). For the record, the Over-Level-1s had to do a salchow, sitspin and back spiral, and the Level 4 and Over were asked for an axel, a combination jump and a combination spin.

Anyway, 11-year-old N skated very well and came 2nd out of 4 - and was almost in tears of disappointment. I pretended not to notice that, put my arm round her, grabbed her medal, and said, "Oh my GOODNESS, you came SECOND! WOW, that's FANTASTIC, you must be SO PROUD of yourself - aren't you proud of her?" to her mother, who backed me up no end and also made a Great Big Noisy Fuss of her daughter. Mother was very pleased - but very little comforted N. How do you explain to a child that age that winning isn't especially important in the scheme of things, and to skate well enough to come 2nd in your very first competition is absolutely brilliant? And not just explain, but explain it so the child knows she's done well, not just pretends to believe the grown-ups?

[CanAmSk8ter]

Is a child who only skates once or twice a week and rarely, or never, competes until 8 or 10 going to be at a huge disadvantage if they decide to get serious at that point? I've kind of had the attitude that if she's really talented, there's no rush, and if she not really talented, well, there's no need to rush either.

Personally, I agree with you. Most of the young skaters I know who are fairly serious about skating (I'm talking maybe 4-9 years old, between Basic 7 or 8 and Freestyle 3 or 4) compete at Basic Skill competitions all over our area. Other than, like you said, getting better with stage presence and performing, I don't see this as necessary. It is fun for the kids, but I worry sometimes that the kids who do loads of Basic Skill events get too used to winning or placing, since everyone in these events gets a medal. It's big shock for an eight-year-old to do her first "real" competition and place sixth out of eight ot whatever! I think parents and coaches need to do a lot of preparing for that possibility.

I think for young beginners, doing a Basic Skill event at their home rink can be a great experience. But the running all over the region to Basic Skill after Basic Skill seems like overkill to me. Like you said, there's plenty of time for that if they decide to continue in the sport.

[Lmarletto]

but if you have a child that doesnt want to do those things but wants to skate, what should you do? make them do something they dont want to do or let them enjoy something they love?

Yeah, forcing a 4yo to take ballet would be a disaster.:lol: I feel fortunate that over the last year my daughter has become interested in gymnastics, ballet, soccer, swimming, children's theatre, you name it. But then I still struggle with how much is too much. ;)

There are a couple of 5-6yo at our rink who basically skate full-time. They have progressed very quickly, I think mostly due to their incredible focus. In one case, I know for sure the child is setting the pace. I'm not sure about the others. It's a beautiful thing to see a child doing something they love.

There are also a few 10-12yo who have skated full-time their whole childhoods and really look as if they've reached their maximum potential. Some of the other parents and coaches say very unkind things about both the children and their parents. Ugh. I'm sure they must have looked like prodigies when they first started out. Whenever I see them I am thankful my daughter has interests in addition to skating.

[Isk8NYC]

My kids did their first competition a few weeks ago. They've done shows, but only in a group situation. The teenager was terrific, although very nervous. But, she's asked to enter more competitions!

My little ones (6 yrs old) absolutely LOVED doing the Tot competition. Yes, they skated against the book or each other, but this was a very, very small competition. It was a perfect setting for them to learn about sportsmanship and stage presence. They learned to be kind, not gloat, and to contain their jealousy. They also liked being the center of attention -- they were "mike hogs" at our Church's Karaeoke night last weekend!

I wouldn't enter my kids in EVERY competition, but 2 or 3 each year is fine. It gives them a goal to work towards and it was a lot of fun!

[tsolomon]

Age should not be an issue when you're considering what age to start competing at. They have to be both mentally and physically ready, and that is a choice that the coach and parent should make when the time is right. I would think that waiting until you are 10-12 years old could put you at a real disadvantage when competing as there are so many things you need to learn how to do. I also think that younger skaters are more willing to skate out on to an empty piece of ice in front of judges, parents and other competitors for the first time, but as kids get older that tend to becomes more self-conscious. Just learning how to present yourself and what to do if you fall, is something that you can only learn by competing. Learning to accept that you didn't skate well and were placed lower than you expected is a hard lesson, but it should then be followed by going back out on the ice next week and continuing to train.

The parents and coaches who expect/demand too much of their young skaters are where the problems start. They need to be encouraged to learn that competitions are a way for them to measure their progress. Having a bad skate and watching how they respond to it can provide feedback to the coaches and parents so they can evaluate their emotional state and use that to improve how they train and prepare them for the next competition. Coaches have to learn how to handle their skaters at a competition as they all respond differently to the stress and need to have their own pre-competition routines. Parents also need to learn how to be positive and remain positive even if your child doesn’t skate well.

Young skaters need to have a positive environment in which to compete, both before and after the event. The coach coaches and the parents provide the unconditional love even in the face of a poor outing. Let the coach discuss what went wrong and what needs to be fixed after the event, not the parents. As parents, we buy the stuffed toys and the ice cream, and that’s a much better job!

[twokidsskatemom]

There are a couple of 5-6yo at our rink who basically skate full-time. They have progressed very quickly, I think mostly due to their incredible focus. In one case, I know for sure the child is setting the pace. I'm not sure about the others. It's a beautiful thing to see a child doing something they love



I so agree with you :) great statement !!!!!!!!!!
My dd pretty much skates full time, HER choice.
Yesterday at the rink there was a coach from another state who comes here once a month to coach some ice dancers.
He said to us..... boy i wish some of my competeing kids had the work ethic and love of skating that you can see from your daughter.

[TashaKat]

To the original poster:

I think it's great for kids as young as possible to learn the basics...stroking, crossovers, good posture, maybe shoot the ducks, 3-turns and the like. Most people who've read my posts on the other thread know that I am personally not for young kids doing difficult jumps (ie doubles and up), because I don't believe it's good for their bones (although I'm no doctor, it's my humble assumption), also, with growth spurts, it's common to lose jumps which will frustrate a LOT of skaters into quitting (especially considering there isn't just one growth spurt, and it's classic to lose jumps every 6 months while you're growing!), there's also kids burning out too early before they even developed an artistic expression side (or are old enough to enter Nationals)...I don't think kids competing before 10-12 years old is really worth much other than stage experience, which they can get in less taxing areas such as ballet or even drama...
-FadedStardust

ITA re the jumps but, unfortunately, any kid going into Free/Pairs NEEDS those jumps if they're going to compete at anything more than the lower levels. I, personally, think that working the multi rotational jumps at an early age is more than likely going to lead to problems in the long term.

I DO, however, disagree with you saying that ballet is less taxing! Ballet can be just as taxing on the body as skating, in different ways, obviously PLUS in ballet you don't get away with being one sided as you do in skating, you have to pirouette, jump and EVERYTHING as equally as possible on both sides.

I started doing ballet exams and competitions from about the age of 4, I wanted to do it and I wasn't pushed. I was VERY lucky not to have a 'ballet' mother! My parents were supportive but were not the kind to see one glimmer of hope and have my future for the next 10 years mapped out for me. As someone pointed out, jumps go, especially for girls when puberty strikes, then there's boys ..... how many promising girls have given up to 'get a life'?

I'd hate to think of 5/6 year olds skating 'full time'. I've no problems with them working, I think that skating is good for self discipline as well as for the actual skating, but they still need a childhood at the end of it all. I sincerely hope that full time means that they are there after school rather than there INSTEAD of school (it happens, the last girl that I knew who dropped out of school to skate has amounted to a big fat zero in life as well as in skating). What a waste :frus:

[twokidsskatemom]

I'd hate to think of 5/6 year olds skating 'full time'. I've no problems with them working, I think that skating is good for self discipline as well as for the actual skating, but they still need a childhood at the end of it all. I sincerely hope that full time means that they are there after school rather than there INSTEAD of school (it happens, the last girl that I knew who dropped out of school to skate has amounted to a big fat zero in life as well as in skating). What a waste
__________________

We hs, and my dd does skate 5 days a week. That has nothing to do with her school, she still does lots of school things, but it doesnt take me 8 hours a day to teach her.
We skate during the day as ice time is cheaper.But again, she still has school We dont feel hs is waste of anything.

[fadedstardust]

Is a child who only skates once or twice a week and rarely, or never, competes until 8 or 10 going to be at a huge disadvantage if they decide to get serious at that point? I've kind of had the attitude that if she's really talented, there's no rush, and if she not really talented, well, there's no need to rush either.

I completely agree with your thoughts. He's probably an exception to the rule, but Johnny Weir started skating when he was 12 years old (which in skating is wheelchair bound! Although males do get more of a break than females, which really shows you how stupid the whole "you must start early to make it" theory is, cause it really doesn't matter what gender you are, actually I bet most females pick up the sport faster than males). Maybe it isn't so much an exception to the rule as it is that not many people start that late because there's some beliefs that if you do, you'll never make it, so they don't even bother. I bet that if more 12-15 years old were encouraged and told they had as much of a shot as someone who started at, say, 5, it wouldn't be so much of an exception to have started at 12 and made it to the top. It really just depends how fast your kid learns, you know? And the speed of learning changes with age, too. Either improves or worsens. Of course, basic skill competitions are okay when you're younger than that, I'm just around a lot of 7-8 year olds doing doubles and going to so many far away comps and having cell phones and laptops (I'm NOT joking) that I really imagine the worst when I hear "kids starting early"...I always think..doubles, triples, monthly high stress comps, jaded 6 year olds going on 50...that's what I'm around. And I really don't think it's that great for the skater in the long run. But a couple fun basic comps a year and some group and mommy and me classes as young as 4-5 is fine...if they have fun! I just don't think you really get serious as in "this is my goal, this is what I want to do with my life" until later on, maybe 14 or 15, when the kid can truly understand and make that decision for him/her self.

All in all, within a reasonably degree, I don't think starting older really hinders you. You have advantages like more responsiblity, stronger muscles, independence, and the like, that a 10 year old most likely doesn't have yet. It all goes back to how much you're willing to work. That willingness also, usually, increases with age. I'm off my soapbox now. ;)

-FadedStardust

[fadedstardust]

I DO, however, disagree with you saying that ballet is less taxing! Ballet can be just as taxing on the body as skating, in different ways, obviously PLUS in ballet you don't get away with being one sided as you do in skating, you have to pirouette, jump and EVERYTHING as equally as possible on both sides.


I've done ballet for a long time too, it's actually helped my skating immensly. I guess it isn't less TAXING, and when I mentioned ballet I was definitely thinking of ballet without pointe for the young ones (ie: before 10 yrs old) but there's you know, no toe pounding, no hip grinding from loop jumps, not as much falling....it's what I meant by better for younger kids, you know?

My left pirouettes always sucked. ;)

-FadedStardust

[twokidsskatemom]

basic comps a year and some group and mommy and me classes as young as 4-5 is fine...if they have fun! I just don't think you really get serious as in "this is my goal, this is


as a mom I dont agree at all.I trust my kids and if this is what they want, then its what they want.
people change careers 5 times during a lifetime . If this is what my kids want for now, then as a parent im there to support them, not to tell them how i dont trust how they feel.There is nothing wrong with kids having a life purpose and goals. would take a kid skaters any day over a 13 yo doing drugs or having sex.Wpuld much rather have a 6yo who loves skating then a 6yo who plays computer games after school and watches tv the rest of the time.
if at 10 she wants to do something else then she can. If at 5 she wants to skate, they she can skate.
And yes, some skaters started late.And a ton started early.every child is different. Some kids want to do this, some kids wants to compete, and its not the parents pushing them as much as the parents allowing them to make small choices about their lives .small choices go to bigger choices as they get older.

[twokidsskatemom]

you're younger than that, I'm just around a lot of 7-8 year olds doing doubles and going to so many far away comps and having cell phones and laptops (I'm NOT joking) that I really imagine the worst when I hear "kids starting early"...I always think..doubles, triples, monthly high stress comps, jaded 6 year



cells phones and laptops have nothing to do with skating.How many non skaters have those? go to any school and see but its a non skating issue.Its a parenting issue.

[fadedstardust]

as a mom I dont agree at all.I trust my kids and if this is what they want, then its what they want. people change careers 5 times during a lifetime .

I agree that if it's what the kid wants, then they should get to do it, however I disagree that a 4 year old should have a career. At that age, it should be a hobby. No matter how serious they are about it, it shouldn't be their life. Playing with other kids, going to school, learning valuable social and intellectual skills should be their job at that age. Nothing more.


As far as the cell phone and laptops, I'm simply implying that a lot of very young very serious skaters are robbed of their childhood through the intensity of this sport. The accesories are merely imagery. I'm not attacking you in any way, your child is in basic skills, that's a great place for a 4 year old to be. She's not doing anything to hurt herself at that level, so that's great, and your attitude that she can quit when she wants to is great also. I'm talking about many other children that are not in that same situation. And trust me, there's way too many. :(

-FadedStardust

[twokidsskatemom]

I agree that if it's what the kid wants, then they should get to do it, however I disagree that a 4 year old should have a career. At that age, it should be a hobby. No matter how serious they are about it, it shouldn't be their life. Playing with other kids, going to school, learning valuable social and intellectual skills should be their job at that age. Nothing more.


As far as the cell phone and laptops, I'm simply implying that a lot of very young very serious skaters are robbed of their childhood through the intensity of this sport. The accesories are merely imagery. I'm not attacking you in any way, your child is in basic skills, that's a great place for a 4 year old to be. She's not doing anything to hurt herself at that level, so that's great, and your attitude that she can quit when she wants to is great also. I'm talking about many other children that are not in that same situation. And trust me, there's way too many. :(

-FadedStardust


This is ot, but a child doesnt need a school to teach them or have them have social skills.That is part of what parenting is about.putting a bunch of 5yos together ina room and really doesnt teach them the right social skills.
I didnt mean this was her career, just that right now this is ahuge part of her life.She has friends, goes on field trips, has hs gym time, hs coop, goes to church,playes with her brother, and does lots of things non skating.
She also has no tv in her room, will never have an xbox or gameboy, and plays outside alot.She will not get a cell phone or laptop either.
She reads and does math on a first grade level and we live in a state that does test hs.We teach her how to behave, we dont really want a school to do that.

[TashaKat]

I'd hate to think of 5/6 year olds skating 'full time'. I've no problems with them working, I think that skating is good for self discipline as well as for the actual skating, but they still need a childhood at the end of it all. I sincerely hope that full time means that they are there after school rather than there INSTEAD of school (it happens, the last girl that I knew who dropped out of school to skate has amounted to a big fat zero in life as well as in skating). What a waste
__________________

We hs, and my dd does skate 5 days a week. That has nothing to do with her school, she still does lots of school things, but it doesnt take me 8 hours a day to teach her.
We skate during the day as ice time is cheaper.But again, she still has school We dont feel hs is waste of anything.

Excuse me! I wasn't talking about your kids and I wasn't talking about home schooling (I PRESUME that's what 'hs' means ...) I was talking about kids that are COMPLETELY taken out of school to skate and my comment was actually about a specific, now ex, skater that I know! I am, as are you, entitled to my own opinion!

[TashaKat]

I've done ballet for a long time too, it's actually helped my skating immensly. I guess it isn't less TAXING, and when I mentioned ballet I was definitely thinking of ballet without pointe for the young ones (ie: before 10 yrs old) but there's you know, no toe pounding, no hip grinding from loop jumps, not as much falling....it's what I meant by better for younger kids, you know?

My left pirouettes always sucked. ;)

-FadedStardust

LOL ..... let you off!! I was thinking of my days (from the age of 10) en pointe with toes bleeding, not able to use animal wool or gel pads and THEN having to soak them in surgical spirits!!! To this day I won't show my feet in public 8O

[twokidsskatemom]

Excuse me! I wasn't talking about your kids and I wasn't talking about home schooling (I PRESUME that's what 'hs' means ...) I was talking about kids that are COMPLETELY taken out of school to skate and my comment was actually about a specific, now ex, skater that I know! I am, as are you, entitled to my own opinion!

I dont think i said you couldnt have your own opinion. I just stated mine.Pretty boring if we all had the same thoughts dont you think ?In most states even if a kids skates, there are still rules that HOME SCHOOLERS have to follow.even if someone leaves schools there are still state rules I guess unless said child is over 16.

[fadedstardust]

This is ot, but a child doesnt need a school to teach them or have them have social skills.That is part of what parenting is about.putting a bunch of 5yos together ina room and really doesnt teach them the right social skills.
I didnt mean this was her career, just that right now this is ahuge part of her life.She has friends, goes on field trips, has hs gym time, hs coop, goes to church,playes with her brother, and does lots of things non skating.
She also has no tv in her room, will never have an xbox or gameboy, and plays outside alot.She will not get a cell phone or laptop either.
She reads and does math on a first grade level and we live in a state that does test hs.We teach her how to behave, we dont really want a school to do that.

Homeschooled kids, for the largest part, are very well adjusted and intelligent, well spoken individuals (most of the time more so than their public school counterparts). I didn't mean to leave that out of "schooling" in general, it was included in what I'd consider going to school. Your kids are lucky you do that for them. :)

-FadedStardust

[fadedstardust]

LOL ..... let you off!! I was thinking of my days (from the age of 10) en pointe with toes bleeding, not able to use animal wool or gel pads and THEN having to soak them in surgical spirits!!! To this day I won't show my feet in public 8O

I wasn't allowed to use padding my first year of pointe, and to this day, I cannot for the life of me understand why. Hahaha. My feet recuperated pretty nicely, I think I'm lucky though. Just one bunion. Not that those aren't a pain (literally). ;)

-FadedStardust

[twokidsskatemom]

:)
I would have never thought before kids about home schooling them.It kinda just worked out for our family and the way we parent them.We really do like being with them and watching them grow.They are kewl kids :)
But then im an older mom and not very mainstream about most of our choices. :) :)

[TashaKat]

Can I please clarify that I did not even mention home schooling

I'd hate to think of 5/6 year olds skating 'full time'. I've no problems with them working, I think that skating is good for self discipline as well as for the actual skating, but they still need a childhood at the end of it all. I sincerely hope that full time means that they are there after school rather than there INSTEAD of school (it happens, the last girl that I knew who dropped out of school to skate has amounted to a big fat zero in life as well as in skating). What a waste :frus:

I was talking about kids that are taken out of school completely and, if you read what I said I was actually talking about a girl that I knew who was taken out of school to concentrate on skating and has amounted to absolutely nothing in life or in skating.

twokidsskatemom I was not aiming anything at you so please don't be so defensive because I don't know you or your situation in fact I don't think that I've come across you before so nothing that I said was personal to you. You mentioned 5/6 year olds that skate full time, I commented on that. Period. At this juncture I think that I'll bow our of this conversation.

[twokidsskatemom]

Can I please clarify that I did not even mention home schooling

[/b]

I was talking about kids that are taken out of school completely and, if you read what I said I was actually talking about a girl that I knew who was taken out of school to concentrate on skating and has amounted to absolutely nothing in life or in skating.

twokidsskatemom I was not aiming anything at you so please don't be so defensive because I don't know you or your situation in fact I don't think that I've come across you before so nothing that I said was personal to you. You mentioned 5/6 year olds that skate full time, I commented on that. Period. At this juncture I think that I'll bow our of this conversation.
Guess i ASSUMED when you said she was taken out of school, then she was HOME SCHOOLED.You didnt give enough facts i guess but most kids taken out of school have to do school at home unless they are more than 16.
Im not defenstive, in have no issues at all with how we are raising our kids.Just make a comment on something said, thought that is what this board was for.
have no clue why you are so upset but have a nice day.

[trains]

If they are going to be competitive skaters, they have to start very early. In EOS there is a program run by the section called "Jumpstart" for talented young skaters. In order to have their skaters admitted to the program, the coach must submit a videotape audition to the section development office. The skater must be able to do a clean axel at seven years old and a clean axel and at least one clean double jump at eight years old. (I mentioned this in the other thread too)
When the coaches at our club are looking for talented skaters in the Canskate program to move to private lessons, they are only considering kids 6 and under. Otherwise, unless they are mega talents, it is too late.
Of course anyone can enjoy being a recreational skater on the Starskate side of things.

[Mrs Redboots]

Of course anyone can enjoy being a recreational skater on the Starskate side of things.I wish more people felt that. There are too many parents who have dreams of their children one day skating for their country. Well, it could happen, I suppose - my niece is on the under-21 national squad in her sport, which is not ice-skating - but it rarely does. They get to a certain level, it seems, and then suddenly walk away - their senior school, or public exams, or a new boyfriend, or even going to university, all take their toll.

Mind you, for dancers, you can always come back. I know a dance couple who gave up 5 or 6 years ago ("I gave away all his trousers!" said his mother), but have just returned to the social dance scene, which they are loving!

[twokidsskatemom]

wish more people felt that. There are too many parents who have dreams of their children one day skating for their country. Well, it could happen, I suppose - my niece is on the under-21 national squad in her sport, which is not ice-skating - but it rarely does. They get to a certain level, it seems, and then suddenly walk away - their senior school


We dont want that, just for her to be happy and do well no matter what she does.
skate for her country nope, something in skating would just be fine.or something else in 10 years. :)

[fadedstardust]

If they are going to be competitive skaters, they have to start very early. In EOS there is a program run by the section called "Jumpstart" for talented young skaters. In order to have their skaters admitted to the program, the coach must submit a videotape audition to the section development office. The skater must be able to do a clean axel at seven years old and a clean axel and at least one clean double jump at eight years old. (I mentioned this in the other thread too)
When the coaches at our club are looking for talented skaters in the Canskate program to move to private lessons, they are only considering kids 6 and under. Otherwise, unless they are mega talents, it is too late.
Of course anyone can enjoy being a recreational skater on the Starskate side of things.

That's why Canada has the Sandhu's and we've got the Weirs. ;) I seriously think coaches thinking that way is such a waste. There was even a big special on jumping and young kids during Worlds broadcast over in America, and how bad it's become, and how it's the coache's fault so many kids are injured and that they should take it way slower. It's just...sad. If you're 7 and you've got 3 doubles and then you don't progress for 3 years or you're 10 and you fly through the levels in a year, you're exactly at the same speed. Not everyone's talents blossom at 2. Maria Butyrskaya won her Worlds at what...29 years old? She'd been falling all over herself for 10 years before that. I'm sure she's glad she didn't quit cause everyone called her a hopeless old lady.

-FadedStardust

[2axel_hopeful]

when i was little, i lived in ukraine, and there they have a special trainging regime, and you have to start at age 3 or younger, they dont accept you if you're 4. they also do VERY strict off-ice and ballet included, and they chose children to go into a special trainging program. i moved to canada when i was 4 and my parents were shocked by the lack of disipline. in ukraine kids trained and trained, and were sponsored by the government, and chosen into olympic training programs, but in canada we had canskate and ppl skating, but not really in it to win. maybe that why the russian skaters, whether they be singles, pairs, or ice dance tend to be stronger than the canadians.. however, the ukrainians work on building a stable foudation of stroking, and flexibility, before starting work on jumps. so they might take longer to achieve a "peak" but they will probably be better in general because of their artistry, speed, etc. also because they started so early they will be with ppl the same age as them.

[Mrs Redboots]

i moved to canada when i was 4 and my parents were shocked by the lack of disipline. in ukraine kids trained and trained, and were sponsored by the government, and chosen into olympic training programs, but in canada we had canskate and ppl skating, but not really in it to win.But, what happens in the Ukraine if someone who has trained and trained since they were 3 reaches the age of 14, hits puberty, and says, "I don't want to do this any more?" Can they walk away, the way a British or Canadian skater can? Or does the Government say, "That's tough; we've invested all this money in you, you have to do it!"

Actually, and in all fairness, where the Ukrainian system has some advantages is that you do learn how to work. I read an article once where a group of Russian gymnasts did an exchange visit with a group of British ones. When the British kids visited Russia, they were amazed that "The gymnasts worked and worked, even when the coaches weren't watching!" But the Russians had a lovely holiday and nice rest when they visited our gyms!

[trains]

We don't need to discuss political systems, those days are gone. People that are different are just different, not in need of correction and civilizing. The world is a delicious rich soup.
Like it or not, starting that young is a reality if you want to be a successful competitive skater these days. Coaches don't necessarily think it is ideal either. But remember, they are working within the structure of their associations. Juvenile competitive tests must be passed by before eleven years old for girls, otherwise they must be pre novice. Pre novice skaters need a double axel and a triple attempt to be near the top of any competition.
You can start later, but you won't be as successful.
The rules change over the years as well. Ages are being pushed downward in the test system, but that may change in time as new ideas prevail. Time will tell.
Yes, Canada has Sandhu, who has developed amazing talent but hasn't learned to compete. But Canada also has developed Jackson, McPherson, Orser,Stoiko, Browning...

[Mrs Redboots]

We don't need to discuss political systems, those days are gone.I hope you don't think I was referring to any political system. I wasn't. I was referring to training systems, which is different.

Like it or not, starting that young is a reality if you want to be a successful competitive skater these days.This is alleged to be true of many sports, including gymnastics and swimming. But my (male) coach didn't start to skate until he was in his teens, and he was pretty successful at a national level before turning professional. And male gymnasts and figure skaters tend to be up to ten years older than their female counterparts..... I think we ought not to buy into a mindset that thinks you are washed up by the age of 16.

My daughter could have been a great competitive swimmer, but I was not the kind of mother to find a club and insist she train. My niece, on the other hand, with just that sort of mother, is now in the under-21 squad for her sport (dressage)..... but she didn't start to train seriously until she was well into her teens.

[trains]

No ,sorry, I was the afraid the discussion would get into political sport systems, and I didn't want that to happen.
I agree with you. There are exceptions to everything. It is the structure of the skating system that directs what happens. These young age requirements are fairly recent and they may change, if they aren't working.
Starskate was intended to take all those skaters who weren't going to be strong competitors and give them a viable outlet. It has become pretty competitive too. At all Ontarios recently, the Preliminary men's event had skaters doing strong double flips. Preliminary! What are they doing there?

[2axel_hopeful]

But, what happens in the Ukraine if someone who has trained and trained since they were 3 reaches the age of 14, hits puberty, and says, "I don't want to do this any more?" Can they walk away, the way a British or Canadian skater can? Or does the Government say, "That's tough; we've invested all this money in you, you have to do it!"

Actually, and in all fairness, where the Ukrainian system has some advantages is that you do learn how to work. I read an article once where a group of Russian gymnasts did an exchange visit with a group of British ones. When the British kids visited Russia, they were amazed that "The gymnasts worked and worked, even when the coaches weren't watching!" But the Russians had a lovely holiday and nice rest when they visited our gyms!


sry, mrs redboots, i dunno. i guess you could quit, but i suppose it might be kinda hard....
anyway, you're right on the work ethic- thats exactly like figure skating. the russian gymnasts must have had fun on their little vacations :lol: ;-)

[LI Skate Mom]

My daughter started skating at 2 1/2. She did her first competition in basic skills snowplow sam a week after her 4th birthday. She loves competing. She likes getting onto the ice by herself and performing in front of everyone. At 4 1/2 she started to take 2 private lessons a weeks and practices 2 other days. On her practice days it is more like her playing. She will be 5 in a few weeks and her favorite place to be in on the ice. She just loves to be on the ice. SHe can be in the worst mood and gets on her the ice and she can't stop smiling.

[Figuresk8_katie]

I've skated at Parent and Tot skates since I was about 3. I continued Public skating until I was around 8. When I was 9 I started CanSkate at my figure skating club. Since I knew how to skate already I accelerated through CanSkate quickly...only took a year. I started private lessons when I reached level 7 (prepreliminary) in Canskate w/ my current coach, mostly to help me get through CanSkate sooner. Now I'm 15, I'm working on all my doubles. I've got my axle and double sal. Considering I didn't start until I was almost 10...in 5 years...not even 5 FULL years, I've accomplished alot. I think as long as you have the dedication then you'll succeed no matter WHAT your age is.

[EM_skate]

I started CanSkate when i was about 11, and did that for two winters in a row, then moved up to preJunoir (Canskate 7- that spring) and started private lessons. I think i was about 12.5 Now I'm 14 and I'm working on my axel. I only really got serious about skating about a year ago, and i really hope i can land my doubles and axel especially, before i turn 15.

[lisou]

As an info , my brother started skating when he was 5 years and a half old and did his first comp when he was 7 . Now , at 8 , he has comps every 2 weeks and trains 10 hours per week in our club in France .He is currently regional champ and has won all his comps this year ( even thouh he was often alone because he's a guy :lol: )