Ah, the things you learn at boot fittings......

[Debbie S]

Yesterday, I drove to Skater's Paradise in No. VA to be fitted for a new pair of skate boots. It was about an hour's drive each way (a little longer coming back b/c of afternoon traffic - since when does rush hour start at 4?). Anyway, flo was right - it was worth the trip. The fitter, Mike Cunningham, is the fitter/boot supplier for Michael Weiss, and as I discovered, now also for Elvis Stojko and Sasha Cohen - more on that later. He measured my feet (expressing exclamation over their dimunutive size- yeah, yeah, yeah, the story of my life - I actually wear a 5 1/2 shoe, so it's not like I can't find shoes or anything). He took out the sole pad from my current skates (I brought them along in case he wanted to see how I wore them in - it turned out to be a good idea) and he pointed out that they were actually a bit too long (and I had thought originally they were too short!) and were also too narrow (at last, confirmation that I wasn't crazy!).

He brought out SP-Teri and Jackson boots for me to try on - he said Harlicks and Riedells would not be good for me. The only SP-Teri boot he had in my size was a Super Deluxe, which he explained to me and emphasized that I was just trying them on for size. It's a good thing I don't do doubles - those things were cement! Aside from serious pain along my ankle bones, they fit fine. He brought out the Pro Teri and Super Teri styles, which were too big but I put them on anyway just to get an idea of their style. I also tried on the Jackson 2700 and 3100.

In the end, I chose the Super Teris, just b/c the Pro Teris felt flimsier and I figured that for 40 more dollars, I would purchase stronger boots that would last longer. The Jackson 3100s were OK, except that they were a smidge shorter than the Supers and my big toe has this weird shape where it sticks upward instead of lying flat on the ground - this is also why I occasionally need to get shoes a half size bigger and wear an inner sole. The Supers just felt better in the toe area. My size in the SP-Teris turned out to be a 4A, which was surprising b/c my current GAM Bs are too narrow, but I could see clearly that the sole pad from the SP-Teris was wider than the GAMs - go figure (no pun intended :) ).

But then, Mike brought out a Jackson boot - I'm almost positive that it was another 3100 - it was exactly like one that I had tried on, and he asked me to try it on. I put it on, he laced it up and asked me how it fit, and I told him it was fine - which it was. He then unlaced it and told me it was Sasha Cohen's boot. I assumed he meant that it was the type of boot she was wearing (he was a skate tech at Worlds and so he was filling me in on which skates various skaters were using and/or were switching to - it seems a lot of skaters are switching to Jacksons), but apparently, it was Sasha's EXACT boot. He turned it over to show me the sticker with her name on it - he was curious to see if we were the same size, which we are! Apparently, Sasha is trying out different boots - she has been in Klingbeils (I would have thought she would use a much stiffer boot than anything I would try on, but I guess not).

He also mentioned that he fitted Elvis for new Jackson boots and blades, and showed me the blade Elvis will be using as he and I were discussing which blade I would get - I chose the MK Professionals, as I now have Double Stars and I was looking to upgrade.

Another thing I learned is that my feet pronate to the inside when I skate - which seems odd b/c in shoes, I always wear out the outer part of the soles before the inner, but oh well. I also learned that my current skates are pieces of C-R-A-P. (I hope that doesn't get Adrian in trouble.) Apparently, the heels are uneven, so when I stand up straight in them and think I am on the flat part of my blades, I am actually on the inside edge on my left and the outside edge on my right. Mike pointed this out to me as he was looking to see how I had worn them in. Oh wonderful! (insert sarcasm) I asked him if that was the reason why I end up on an extreme inside ege when I do forward spins and he said it was. I imagine that also explains why I'm too far inside after my LFO turn in prep for my flip jump, and why I tended to flutz when we did the half lutz. And then there's the matter of my LBO and RBI edges - so that's why they're impossible? Arrrgghhh! $240 for that! I guess the lesson learned is that I should always check the heels to make sure they're built right.

Anyway, the boots could be in the store in as soon as 10 days, or as long as 6 weeks, depending if they're in stock at SP-Teri. Considering the state of my current skates, I guess my new skates' arrival will come not a moment too soon.

[Arsenette]

Hey I need to do that!!! I've been wearing Jacksons (nothing special - the cheap ones) but never felt right. I gave them away to my friend who skates a lot but has crap skates (they don't even have any kind of padding! 8O ). I have tried Riedells and loved them (not the price though) so I might go with used ones..

My question is.. where do you go to have someone "fit" you? I would LOVE that because I don't know a dang thing about skates - just what feels right - and that is after someone has already worn them. In my area they don't have many skates that they see - mostly hockey stuff :roll: so I don't know how to find one that actually let's you try different boots to see what fits better.. *sigh* :oops:

I'm glad your experience taught you a lot. I've heard of the benefits of having your foot fitted to your boot. Let us know when you get your skates! ;)

[LoopLoop]

Mike Cunningham is my skate guy! I don't let anybody else touch my skates.

He told me that Jackson offered a free pair of skates to every competitor at Worlds; they're trying to build their business among the elite skaters, so they're giving everyone a pair to try.

[Canskater]

Well, my last skates were SuperTeri's and, while they are very well made boots, they were just not right for my feet. I'm now in Jackson 3700's and I absolutely adore them. They were great from day one.

My daughter skates in Jackson Competitors which she seems to like ... they offer enough support for her skating level, but not so much that it hinders knee bend ... and the price point is good for my pocket book.

-- sheilagh

[sk8pics]

Originally posted by Arsenette

My question is.. where do you go to have someone "fit" you? I would LOVE that because I don't know a dang thing about skates

Well, it depends on where you live! If you are in the NYC area and you want Klingbeils, you can go directly to Klingbeil in Jamaica, NY. I know someone who was fitted at the SP Teri place in California. Or you can go to Skaters' Paradise in Alexandria and have Mike Cunningham fit you like other posters have said. He fit me with my custom SP Teri's several years ago and they've been great. If you live in the CT area or around Delaware, you can have George Knakl fit you. I believe George was Handra & Sinek's sharpener while they were training in Aston, and he is down in Delaware every few weeks sharping the skates of many of the skaters around here, both elite and less-than-elite! He's the only person who I allow to touch my blades now, and he's great! If anyone lives in the area and wants to get in touch with him, send me a PM. (And no, I don't get any commision.)

Depending on where you live, you may have to travel to find a good fitter.

Pat

[JD]

so while we're on the topic....

we need a boot change too...giggle...for our teeny girl. And we're having some trouble finding the right match.

We're looking for a good fitter in Southwestern Ontario area if possible.

Someone that can look at these baby sized feet ( she's 11 in a 13 junior sized skate)

since we are having tons of trouble yet again with the size/style/etc...given that she is ultra lite...

any recommendations for someone like the skate fitter referred to in this thread would be a good thing....

feel free to PM me....

[jenlyon60]

Mike has fit me for every pair of skates I've owned... almost 20 years now.

Haven't yet had bad advice from him.

--jsl

Not to mention, that when I'd been out of the area for 10+ years, and made my first return trip to him, he remembered me and the boots.

[Mel On Ice]

My initial boot fitting was rushed for a custom pair, and I felt the pain of it for 1 1/2 years, until I was ready to toss my Sp-Teris in the Mississippi river. Then I went out to SF for the ISI Adult Championships and went directly to the source to make them fix what was wrong or replace them.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaa! I met Mr. Spiteri and his son Aaron, who fixed me up to the point they were perfect. Even gave me a tour of the shop, and showed me step by step how they make custom skates. They even "souped" up my skates so they were like brand new, with a new tongue, laces and fresh coat of polish. They were so fantastic, they have a customer for life.

Once I wear pair out, I am hopping on a plane for a weekend in SF for sushi and boot fitting.

[Debbie S]

For those who asked about how to find a fitter....

I would ask the top skaters at your rink (or nearby rinks) where they go to get their skates. If you go to a competition - even Regionals or Sectionals - most boot companies send a rep there. They may be straight from the company, or they may be a local supplier that the company trusts enough to let them represent them to potential customers. When I was at Worlds, I stopped by the SP-Teri booth to look at the skates, and George and the sales rep told me (after they asked where I was from) that they would be at SA Regionals in October in Laurel (MD). When I asked them about fitters in the area who sell SP-Teris, they immediately recommended Mike Cunningham at Skater's Paradise and gave me his card. I had actually already heard about Mike from flo and some other coaches at my rink. Definitely ask around and you'll probably find that one or two names keep cropping up.

[manleywoman]

Mike has fit my last three pairs of skates. Loved every one, and as Jennyon said, never have gotten bad advice from him.

Oddly though, I don't like the way Mike sharpened my blades. But I've always loved the way JP (who also works at Skater's Paradise) did it, so I go to Mike for fittings and JP for sharpenings.

Strange how sharpenings are so personal...

[Skatewind]

I agree manleywoman! JP is the man for sharpenings!

[jenlyon60]

J.P. does a great job on sharpenings.... I go only to him or Mike.

But Mike has always done my boot fittings...

[AstarZ41]

I don't really have much to add but that's a cool story!! You got to try on Sasha's skates..wow!! I wish there was a pro shop like that around here...I do go to the one at the rink where Tim Goebel used to skate when he lived in Rolling Meadows, IL. Maybe the guy there fitted Tim too..I'd feel weird asking tho :P

[Elsy2]

Hope you love your SP-teri's...I fit perfectly in a stock boot with a combination width of AA/AAA, so I understand how an A width might be wider that you would expect. I've had my super teri's 3 1/2 years, and probably need new boots soon....I hate to give these up as they are so nice for dance since they are nicely broken in. I loved them from day one, although the ankle areas have given me some grief. I still wear bunga sleeves.

My coach would think your feet are big.....she wears a size 3 or 3.5 shoe! She's always worn harlicks.

[Michigansk8er]

Good luck with your SPTeri's. I have customs and was measured by George. They have been pure torture. I've had them punched so much they look diseased. The only plus is this is the first boot I've owned that actually keeps my right heel down.

JD,

What kind of boot are you looking for? Are you anywhere near Windsor? I had very good luck with Joe at Brian's in Windsor for my Grafs. He was willing to split up a set to fit my different sized feet. He's a bit of a name dropper, but he did a good job fitting my boots. I wouldn't recommend having him mount blades (I had mine redone), but I know others that swear by him.

[skaternum]

I know lots of people have been very happy with Mike at Skaters Paradise in VA, but I haven't. As I've learned over the years, my foot is shaped like a wedge, with an extremely narrow heel and wide ball (bunions from pointe work). The boys at Skaters Paradise first put me in a Riedell! You can imagine the fun. <ouch> So the next time, Mike put me in the Jackson 3500 Elite Supreme in a combination width. It *never* fit. Not sure if he measured wrong, or if Jackson made the wrong widths, but they were enormous, especially the right. Mike adjusted a couple of times and shoved all kinds of extra junk into the right one to take up space, but they never got better. I later discovered that the right boot was also warped, with an unbalanced heel. This contributed majorly to back problems I now have.

Also, I always felt like I was getting the "bum's rush" when I went to the store. It's a 4 hour drive for me, so that meant it was a Saturday trip. On the last few trips, I never felt like I was getting the attention I should be. They were too busy. I think after driving a lot of miles and plunking down $800 for new blades & boots that didn't fit, he could give me a little more than 3 minutes. After a year and a half of trying to make them work, I gave up. I now own Klingbeils, which are a much better fit.

[SkateGuard]

Originally posted by LoopLoop
He told me that Jackson offered a free pair of skates to every competitor at Worlds; they're trying to build their business among the elite skaters, so they're giving everyone a pair to try.

Now that Jackson is a sponsor of the USFSA, they are giving every medalist at the US Figure Skating Championships (not Adults or synch) a free pair of Jackson skates.

Actually, my friend found a great guy in Downer's Grove, IL at a booth at Adult Nationals. Unfortunately, he didn't show up this year to AN's, so I'm going to have to cart myself down there this summer for "axel skates".

So if you're at a big competition or expo, check out the booths--you may find someone! Plus, representatives from different skate manufacturers are there to sell their product. If you keep in mind that you're talking to a salesman, you can get great information. And if you're competing, your coach is there with you and can help you out.

Erin

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by Arsenette
My question is.. where do you go to have someone "fit" you? I would LOVE that because I don't know a dang thing about skates - just what feels right - and that is after someone has already worn them. In my area they don't have many skates that they see - mostly hockey stuff :roll: so I don't know how to find one that actually let's you try different boots to see what fits better.. *sigh* :oops:

Arsenette,

How far away are you from New Haven, CT? George Spiteri will be at Skater's Landing in a couple of weeks to do personal fittings. I think he'll also be at the shop at Skating Club of Boston.

[Arsenette]

Actually... I'm in SOUTH Jersey.. like 3 minutes across the bridge from Philadelphia, PA. :oops: I'm 2 hours south from NYC.

[Debbie S]

Originally posted by AstarZ41
I don't really have much to add but that's a cool story!! You got to try on Sasha's skates..wow!!

Well, actually, it was just the right one. :) At first I thought, "Hey, if I see Sasha wearing these skates in comp, I'll know that I wore the right boot first." But then I realized that if she really is skating in the 3100s, they'll probably break down after a few months, so any boots she'll be wearing in comp in the fall will probably be different ones. It seems odd to me that she wouldn't be in the stiffest boot possible, since I thought elite skaters would need those given the jumps they do and the amount of practice hours, but I guess maybe since Sasha's small and doesn't bear a lot of weight as she lands, a softer boot might be OK, but I imagine she'll still have to replace it several times a season. Of course, she's only trying out the Jacksons, so she may go back to Klingbeils, or switch to yet another brand.

That's too bad about your experience skaternum. Maybe Saturday isn't the day to go. I (obviously) went on a Thursday, and I was the only person in the store at the time. Someone came in to pick skates up, but that didn't involve Mike. Although he did tell me that Michael Weiss had been in the store about an hour before I got there - I think COI had some days off this week. Oh rats - why did I have to eat lunch before I went? :)

Arsenette, if you come to South Atlantic Regionals in October, I would think a lot of boot reps will be there - it's possible Mike will be there too - although he may be there in a skate tech capacity like he was at Worlds. A more convenient option for you might be to see if there's a fitter at UDel - it's a big training center, so there must be someone in the vicinity who fits skates that the skaters trust. See what the skaters in your area do.

[flippet]

Originally posted by Michigansk8er
Good luck with your SPTeri's. I have customs and was measured by George. They have been pure torture. I've had them punched so much they look diseased.

Aw, you poor thing...have you yet had a boot you really liked since your antique Harlicks? It's so difficult.

This just goes to show that boots are a terribly individual thing--I have SPTeri's, the super-deluxe or whatever their concrete monsters are called, and I love, love LOVE them. I did have to get them punched out a few times, because no amount of just skating was going to touch those ankles, but that's par for the course. My only problem is that they're just a hair too narrow at the mid-foot, and there's not much that can be done, but then, I wasn't professionally fitted for this particular pair--it was something the shop had overstocked, so I got a great deal, and I've had enough boots fitted that on initial try-out, they felt wonderful. They actually still do fit like a glove everywhere else, and have never given me pain anywhere but at the ankles and edge of the mid-foot. And, it may seem like I'm in too much boot for my level (I don't even have all the singles yet, and I'm not a large person), but for me, stiffer is lovely. I trash softer skates.

If I have to get new skates (a good possibility, if my feet have spread), I'll probably get fitted for another pair of these, only with a split width to accommodate the mid-foot. My heels have never been happier in a skate. :)

[Ellyn]

After the 1975-model Reidell Gold Stars that I carted around for about twenty years (not skating most of those years) until it was necessary to replace them, I went to the Super-Teri Deluxe which felt great when I tried them on bladeless, but as soon as I had the blades mounted I could not stand in them for more than five minutes at a time without severe pain because the arches were too high, and obviously the angle was different with blades than without.

I did get the arches "softened" at a pro shop and they were fine after that, but eventually they too had to be replaced, and Skater's Paradise (I *think* it was Mike, but I don't remember for sure) recommended Reidell Royale. They were very comfortable to break in because of the notch at the ankle.

However, I'm not too fond of the Professional blades they recommended, although I was happy at the time because they were relatively cheap to go with the expensive boots. But now I'm going to have to save up to get back to Pattern 99s again when I replace the current boots. So that will be expensive on both sides.

[sk8pics]

Aresenette,
I sent you a PM.
Pat

[Arsenette]

Thanks!!!!

BTW.. is there someone at Aston as well? Any information? I could see someone in Delaware.. just not sure if there is someone closer.. Thanks guys. You would swear I'm the one that started the thread 8O

Hey Debbie S - did you get your new skates yet?

[Michigansk8er]

Flippet,

I actually liked the Grafs, but they were pretty much trashed in 8 months. Since I'm not rolling in money, I decided to try something that would last a bit longer. The SPTeri's are OK. It just took way too much work to get them that way. I found out I have bones in my feet I never knew existed before. My coach actually ended up pouring boiling water into the boots before punching them. That did the trick, and amazingly, didn't do anything to weaken the strength of the boot. I still like the feel of the custom Harlicks the best, but they just couldn't fit my right foot.

[junkety]

I think I'm going to have to get my own skates and have been reading all your tips here . . . in the meantime, can anyone recommend anything that might help a beginning skater whose ankles, right around the ankle bones, are all torn up and bruised due to bad rental skates? My ankles look like they've been gnawed by rats! and I'm afraid I won't be able to skate at my lesson on Tuesday! :(

I've got antibiotic ointment and band-aids on them now, but if anyone has a better idea, I'd be grateful!

[Elsy2]

Bunga sleeves are worth their weight in gold IMO....and last a long, long time if you treat them right. They are gel lined and slip over your ankles and prevent alot of irritation. You can call 1-888-Bunga Pad and Absolute Athletics will have them to you in 2-3 days. They used to be $12.99 each, but the price may have gone up.

Other than that, you can try cosmetic sponges on areas that hurt, or cut the top off socks and wear them around the ankle for extra padding. The sock top may help hold the cosmetic sponges where you need them.

Good luck...rental skates hurt!

[flo]

Debbie,
I'm glad it worked out with Mike. He's great, and has fitted my 3 pairs of customs.
Looking forward to seeing you and your new skates soon!

[quarkiki2]

Flippet, I'm like you -- I wear Reidell Gold Stars and have since ISI Alpha (not that I'm that far now as I'm only in Delta). I think it's because I have very loose ankles, a looooong Achilles' Tendon, and I'm fat. My fitter also said that, due to my dance training, I had a very efficient and strong knee bend (plie).

I've been comfortable in the Gold Stars since the minute I put them on -- no blisters and only occasional cramping when I'm working really hard on something and I start curling my toes. Or when I spend too much time standing around on the ice.

If I'd thought about it, I would have realized that I'd need a stiff boot. I went through dance shoes like nobody's business; that's actually the reason I stopped dancing en pointe -- I could put on a brand new pair for a matinee performance and break them so fast that I couldn't wear them for the evening show. I was only 15 and knew that I wasn't going to be a dancer, so I switched my focus to theatre instead. Much less expensive!

It was kind of amazing at my fitting -- the fitter brought out 220s and I creased the boot the first time I bent my knees. Then 320s, the Silver Stars, then finally the Gold Stars that I didn't crease. Geez! Who knows what I'll be wearing when I actually start jumping!

[flippet]

Originally posted by quarkiki2
I could put on a brand new pair for a matinee performance and break them so fast that I couldn't wear them for the evening show.

Yow! 8O Maybe it's a good thing I wasn't a dancer when I was younger. I took one semester of ballet a couple of years ago, and at least in my imagination, if I'd have had real training from a young age, I probably would have had similar issues! I couldn't really dance comfortably in demi-pointe, because as far as my foot and ankle are concerned, I was en pointe, only without the toes. I have a really flexible ankle and foot--sitting on the floor with my legs straight, I can point my toes and the toes touch the floor without effort. I can't imagine what I would do to pointe shoes if my ankle and foot had any built-up strength in them!! 8O


I started in Reidell, 220s, and those lasted about 6 months of beginning skating. The next pair were the Silver Stars, and those lasted not quite a year. Good boot, but as they softened, they also got looser. And I didn't really skate all that often--maybe I managed 3-4 hours a week, half of that just fooling around and gabbing. The SPTeri super deluxe are the first boot I've had that seems to be keeping its stiffness, yet is still comfortable. (I actually haven't even started lacing the last hook yet.)


So, boys and girls...the lesson is: get a good fitting from someone who knows what they're doing, pack some experience under your belt, and cross your fingers that you eventually find something that works for you. There's really no magic bullet, unfortunately. (And no guarantee that what works now will still work a couple of years from now---feet change, and so do boot styles. :P )



junkety, the bunga pads are the best idea for sore ankles. Try your local pro shops first...they might carry some, or they might also have other brands of gel pads. Those cosmetic sponges are also quite good in a pinch--no pun intended! :) Question...are you skating in thick or thin socks? Try skating in the thinnest socks you've got, and try to find the snuggest/stiffest/newest pair of rental skates they have. If the boot ankles are flopping over, you're going to have a hard and painful time of it! You may need to go down a half or full size from what you've been skating in--your toes should touch the end of the skate, but shouldn't be smashed. Also, unless the skate is really unsupportive, you don't have to tie the upper holes/hooks super tight--just yank the laces tight at the bend of the ankle, and you can go a bit looser towards the top.

Good luck! :)

[junkety]

Elsy2 and flippet, thanks so much (I put in an order for the Bunga sleeves and pads straightaway). I don’t know how anyone learns how to skate without the help of all the experts here! :)

I started out wearing the socks I usually wear w/ tennis shoes, and a couple of weeks ago switched to tights, which someone recommended instead (it’s quite a trick getting leggings on over tights, I found out!). I guess maybe that’s TOO thin a covering??

I wear a size 6 shoe and find that a size 5 boot is a pretty good fit, with some wiggle room in the toes but not in the heel. The problem w/ rental skates, of course, is that you never get the same pair twice. First I had the floppy-at-the-ankle kind, which were painful as well as useless, and now it seems the stiffer ones are going to grind my ankle bones down to nothing. Mine must stick out too much.

Looks like I won’t be able to skate this week, but I’ve definitely learned a lesson . . . buy a decent pair of skates from someone who knows how to fit them properly, and no more rental skates!

Thanks again!
:)

[anital]

I got my Grafs last week! And I get my second pair today!!!! They sent me galaxies instead of edmontons and then offered me a fabulous deal for keeping both pairs! The galaxies are perfect, even though I really wanted edmontons and still can't wait to get them. The heat moulable makes them fit perfectly and there was no break in time at all, comfie right from the start!

After numerous conversations with Graf, the only difference is that the edmontons are leather and the galaxies are synthetic. I am now a graf convert after skating in reidells forever. (My others were risports though, I sold my reidells when I got sick and then couldn't afford to buy them again when I got better).

Edited to add, since I am in Australia and there are no brilliant fitters here, I sent my tracings off to Canada, this worked really well and I couldn't be more pleased. At first I thought it really weird that someone at my level (back to almost basics, working on singles after a stroke) could wear the same boots as our National Champ doing triples, but all it means it that they will last me longer, we laugh about it....and I got rhinestones in mine and she didn't!! :)

[love2sk8]

The Grafs are an extremely soft boot-so if you aren't too hard on your skates, theyre perfect!!! Another difference between the Galaxies and Edmonton's are the Galaxie's are slightly lighter. I've had 2 pairs of Edmonton's, and now i'm in Galaxies...theyre basically the exact same, and the difference of weight between the two really isn't noticeable. But I LOVE Grafs!!! Even tho my foot doesn't quite fit the boot cut (I should be in an SP Teri, although I never tried them, and never ever will!!)

Just outta curiousity, from where in Canada did you buy them?

[anital]

love2sk8, my edmontons just arrived, the weight difference isn't all that noticeable...but compared to others I've skated in, they are both LIGHT!

I was in SP Teris for about a month when I was younger, ICK! I bought my Grafs from Cyclone Taylor, http://www.cyclonetaylorfigskate.com/, and dealt with Deborah Taylor. There were a few problems (they sent me galaxies even when I specifically asked for edmontons, because they thought they were a better fit and the time to sort it out was long) but overall, the end result was good, I got blades from them too which they fully mounted (I didn't like this at first, but it turned out to be okay).

I train every day again now and I'm expecting these boots to last me a year to two years, but I'll be happy with a year if I get my jumps back as fast as I want to.

[love2sk8]

Anital...if you're not hard on your boots, they should last you quite a long time!! I'm doing triples in mine, and I've had them for about 2 years! Which is surprisingly long for that much pounding...theres barely a crease on my landing foot:)...I was also able to do everything with my Galaxies on the first day with them, and i competed the day after!

I'm sure you'll love them, keep me posted! Good luck with your skating:)

[Elsy2]

Junkety...you will love your bungas....and here is some bunga 101 info for you...

Slip them on with the gel side out and fold them back over to where you want them. You can hand wash them and put them on the ends of a hanger to dry so the gel doesn't stick together. Then take some baby powder and powder the gel which keeps it from getting sticky. Whenever the gel gets sticky, the powder will fix this, and smells good too.

[twinkle]

While we're on the topic of boots, can anyone tell me how to lace my boots properly, ie. where should be tighter/looser?

I've been skating a long time but I've realised that I don't really know how to lace my boots properly. I like them to be very tight, probably because I wore boots that didn't fit for years, but I notice that I never seem to lace them in the same way, and the way they are done up affects my ability to do certain things, so any help would be gratefully received....

[dbny]

Originally posted by twinkle
While we're on the topic of boots, can anyone tell me how to lace my boots properly, ie. where should be tighter/looser?

I think we had a thread on this topic a while back. Anyway, my coach always says there is no right way to lace your boots, it is an art. This is what I do, and it has been working well for me:

Sit with one foot extended, tail of blade on floor, toe in the air (this helps push the heel in all the way). Begin lacing at the tip, very tightly. At the hooks, I tie a single knot to lock the lower lacing in place, and place my foot flat on the floor with the knee slightly bent (leaves just enough room for knee bend when you skate). Then lace up the hooks and tie. I have Klingbeils, so the extra hook is laced from underneath after finishing the others.

[JDC1]

I got my first pair of boots, Jackson, at Skaters, and I HATED the boots and I never thought I got really good service. :-) Funny how everyone has a different perspective. I actually love Paul at Wings of Steel and drive to Laurel to work with him. I think we have similar feet shapes and he worked with me for over an hour 3 months AFTER he sold me the boots to make my Grafs more comfortable. I've also directed a few other unsatisfied customers from Skaters to Paul and they've been very happy with him so I know it's not just me.

[flippet]

Originally posted by junkety
I don’t know how anyone learns how to skate without the help of all the experts here! :)

I know this place was a lifesaver for me when I started! There's just so much to learn, and so many misconceptions to correct!


I started out wearing the socks I usually wear w/ tennis shoes, and a couple of weeks ago switched to tights, which someone recommended instead (it’s quite a trick getting leggings on over tights, I found out!). I guess maybe that’s TOO thin a covering??



Well, when you get fitted for your own boots, tights or something else similarly thin is definitely what you want to be wearing. It gets tricky with rentals, because most people wear thicker (sometimes even the hiking type) socks in rentals, and they get stretched out to fit everyone's socks. When you wear thinner socks in rentals, sometimes the skate can be too loose. It's a toss-up every time. :P

If I were you, I'd continue to wear the tights, but try to arrive early enough to get one of the stiffer pairs of skates. (If they're numbered, maybe you can remember it, and get the same pair every time.) Bungas or cosmetic pads will help with the ankle soreness. (Plus, your ankle bones are probably a bit bruised already, so the stiffer skate makes it sorer than it might otherwise.) If you need to wear a thicker sock just to take up room, that's an option, but blistering might become a problem. Only you will be able to tell what's going to work best with the rentals you've got.

The leggings and tights combo is definitely a pain! :) I only wear tights if I'm wearing a dress, or if I need the extra warmth. Even then, I usually wear the footless ones. I wear regular nylon knee-hi's on my feet--I like them because they're extra thin, but provide just enough of a barrier that my feet don't stick to my boot and cause blisters. Plus, I can get to my feet quickly if needed, such as to readjust a gel pad. If you like the tights fabric, I believe that either Capezio or Mondor is now making a knee-hi out of the tights microfiber, which is a rather nice option.



twinkle, on lacing--dbny's right, lacing is a bit of an art, and also very individual. What I do is make sure the toe box isn't too loose (with my concrete skates, that's kind of a moot point), lace over the mid-foot not too tightly--just barely snug (too tight here can cause foot cramps), and then pull the laces quite tight over the last hole or two, and the first hook or so. From there, I get gradually looser, again just snug enough to hold everything in. I don't hook my top hook, because my skates are still so stiff, and I need the knee bend. The laces are pretty long, so after I get the third set of hooks done, I cross-tie and make a bow, then hook the loops of the bow around two or three sets of hooks, snug it tight, and then cross-tie and bow again. (That's also called a 'butterfly' tie.) Doing this can also make a broken-down skate a touch more supportive. I then pull my footless tights over the laces, and I'm good to go! :)

[manleywoman]

re: how to lace boots properly...

The Skater's Edge Sourcebook has a great chapter on this very topic. If none of you own this book, I higly recommend it. You can order it the third edition (which just came out) at http://www.skatersedgemag.com for $35. It contains all the information about rinks, clubs, and even has charted comparisons of boots and blades. The chapter on lacing skates has a diagram showing the best way to do it to increase strength around the ankle and keep the toungue of the boot in the best shape.

Skater's Edge was a bi-monthly magazine (I think?) that was put together as a labor of love by the woman who runs this site. She ran out of funds to be able to do the magazine anymore, but you can backorder all the old issues (which contain loads of great technical info). I own the 10 year binder of all past issues. She still puts out the Sourcebook. Any skater should own the Sourcebook!

[StephanieT]

I've been in my Graf Edmontons for 2 and a half years now and they're still going strong... They are extremly durable. Now that they are all comfy and broken in they're great, but the break-in time was HORRIBLE. It took me about 3 months to get them more or less ok..but still had cramps in my feet 6 months after that.

So basically when I do need new skates I'm not sure if I should get Edmontons or even Grafs anymore...I'm not sure about the other brands though. I've been thinking of SP-Teri's, Klingbeil or Harlicks. Does anybody have opinions or personal experiences (good or bad) with with those brands? I'm looking for a boot with the same stiffness as the Edmonton!

Thanks for any answers :)

[skatesnrides]

StephanieT,

Everyone has such different experiences with the sames boots, that it's hard to say if you would or wouldn't like the same boots that I do or don't.

I'm having fitting and comfort problems, as well. I've been through Riedell, SP-Teri and now Harlick and am considering Klingbeils or Risports. I have a pair of SP Pro-Teri's that are just too stiff in the ankle bone areas. I have kind of thin and bony ankles, and even though I've had the boots punched out several times, I still can't wear the skates without bunga pads. My Harlicks are custom dance boots. These were fitted for me by Mike at Skater's Paradise. Unfortunately for me, this did not turn out to be a good experience. Like others have said, I don't feel that I was given proper attention to make sure the boots fit correctly after they came in. The actual fitting process seemed thorough, but I was surprised when the boots came in that they did not fit as well as I expected. They went back to Harlick once and they still don't fit. They need to go back again but right now I'm trying to get through some dance tests, so it's definitely inconvenient. However, they are more comfortable than my Teri's, despite the spots that are not supporting my feet properly.

I know that SP-Teri's are stiff and you can get stiff Harlicks so I suppose the question for you would be to determine how well each boot conforms to the shape of your foot.

Boots are so expensive, and a bad fit interferes with your skating, so it's very frustrating when you can't seem to find the right fit.

[sk8er1964]

I've been in my Klingbeils for about 6 months now, and I swear by them. Zero break in time, comfy, barely needed bungas, except at the ankle area at the very start.

[dbny]

My daughter and I both love our Klingbeils. We both have problem feet, which are totally pampered in the Klingbeils. I have never had to use any kind of bunga, and only once, for about two weeks, I had to use a little silicone pad over one toe. I need a high toe box, and for some reason, this one toe started to be a problem after I had been in the boots for over a year. After the two weeks of the silicone pad, though, no problem at all. There is a very short break in period with Klingbeils, and of all the custom boots, they are the least expensive, with a single price of $495 for anything you want. You will never deal with nicer or more honest people either.

[anital]

StephanieT,

Wow you are the first person I've ever heard of having a break in time with Grafs, did you heat mould them correctly to the letter?? Neither of mine have had more than 4 hours needed to feel perfect! But then, I have very "normal" feet!!

love2sk8, I love them both!! I think I sway slightly towards Galaxies since I've been in them slightly longer, but I'm doing one day Eddie (as I named them!) one day Gals at the moment, just to get them both completely comfie before I decide on my main pair and back-up!! I feel spoilt!! New blades on both too, that feels weird!

[love2sk8]

Anital, I'm happy to hear that you like them!!;)

[StephanieT]

Thanks for all the answers people :D

Anital - Yea, I really did have a hard time with my grafs... and I heat molded them twice actually...I find it quite weird that it took me so long to get comfy..like 9 months in all.. that's just crazy and not really worth it. But they work now and have virtually no signs of breaking down even after 2 and 1/2 years.

[JDC1]

Oh, I have had to break in my Grafs!! I don't have normal feet, actually I have VERY, VERY boney feet with very little fats pads ANYWHERE, it's all in my thighs. :-) What I have to do with my grafs is pad certain spots and put them on for 15 minutes before I skate and then I'm virtually pain free. Some days I can feel the blade through my boot in my left foot, my coach has the same problem with her boots. Some people just have the boney feet and there's not much you can do about it. I might try Klingbeils in a couple of years out of curiousity but I can deal with the Grafs for now, they're still 100 % better for me than Jackson's or SP Teri's.

[IceDanceSk8er]

Originally posted by JDC1
I might try Klingbeils in a couple of years out of curiousity but I can deal with the Grafs for now, they're still 100 % better for me than Jackson's or SP Teri's.

Have you tried the Sp-Teri Ultra Lights yet? My daughter just tried on a pair and they are remarkable. They're half the weight of Sp-Teri Customs, heat molded, and no longer have that piece of metal in the boot.

[Candleonwater]

Wow, I LOVE to see others singing Mikes praises! I first met Mike when I took 4 year old daughter in for her first pair of skates (2.5 years ago). I have felt the only time I get the level of service I want is when I am dealing directly with Mike. We strayed away from Skaters Paradise once... when I felt he was pushing Jacksons too much! My daughters coach wanted her in Harlicks and Mike was telling me it was a bad choice, to try Jackson instead... so, of course, at our rink I got the "of course he would say that... he's in bed with Jackson"... so I got my daughters first pair of NON Reidell's (Harlicks) at our rink pro shop. Keep in mind, my daughter has blown through her last two pairs of Reidell's in 6 months (breaking down, not outgrowing). We have had nothing but problems with the Harlicks (how I wish I had listened to Mike)... and at worlds, I had Rudy size her and he said the sizing was right, but that she needed $150 in changes to her boots! (she pronates, and has a wedge shaped foot). Since then, I've talked to other distributors and I'm going to give Jacksons a try (and we're returning to Mike, tails between our legs).

As for lacing - it's all a matter of preference! I was tying my daughters skates one day and our pro shop manager came out and told me I was lacing/tying them WRONG. He showed me how to put her leg at an angle (after tapping the heel) etc... she couldn't skate AT ALL! She came off in tears, we took the skates off, massaged her feet, tied them the same way they have been tied for the last 2 years and she was fine. I have always had her stand up while I tie the laces - figuring that getting a comfortable/natural fit is most natural that way.

[manleywoman]

Originally posted by Candleonwater
... Keep in mind, my daughter has blown through her last two pairs of Reidell's in 6 months (breaking down, not outgrowing). ...

As for lacing - it's all a matter of preference! I was tying my daughters skates one day and our pro shop manager came out and told me I was lacing/tying them WRONG. He showed me how to put her leg at an angle (after tapping the heel) etc... she couldn't skate AT ALL! She came off in tears, we took the skates off, massaged her feet, tied them the same way they have been tied for the last 2 years and she was fine. I have always had her stand up while I tie the laces - figuring that getting a comfortable/natural fit is most natural that way.


It's very possible you are lacing them wrong, and that may contribute to the afrementioned boots breaking down too quickly. I wouldn't dismiss the manager's suggestion so quickly...she might have been crying because it felt different, but that doesn't mean it's wrong. When you go to Skater's paradise again, ask Mike how to tie skates properly, so you get another opinion. It's better to correct a problem now then when your daughter is older.

[skaternum]

Originally posted by Candleonwater
(she pronates, and has a wedge shaped foot). Since then, I've talked to other distributors and I'm going to give Jacksons a try (and we're returning to Mike, tails between our legs).

My 2 cents, coming up. But first, a somewhat tongue-in-cheek editorial comment. Mike must be getting some kind of serious kickback from Jackson to keep pushing Jacksons. Lots of skaters from here who've been fitted recently have either come back with Jacksons or bruises from fighting them off. ;) He shoved me into them, and I was miserable.

My feet are as you describe. In my street shoes, I wear orthotics to correct for pronation, and I have the narrowest heel / widest ball wedge-shaped foot you've ever seen. My Jackson 3500s did NOT work for me. Even in a combination width with the heat molding, the heel was never small enough. (Not to mention the fact that the Jacksons weren't made well -- the right boot was unbalanced and torqued.) No matter how you slice it, Jackson is a wide boot. Its last is wide to begin with. I'd suggest Klingbeils. The last is custom made for your foot, not someone's idea of what a normal foot is like. Klingbeil will reuild them if she breaks them down too easily.

[Candleonwater]

I always appreciate the 2 cents from ANYONE!

Yes, I suppose it might be better to have her adjust, but the idea of her having to do it in these darned Harlicks... too much to deal with!

I've actually heard (at our rink, of course) that Mike has a financial stake in Jackson... whether or not it's true, I don't much care. I'm willing to try Jackson once - we gave Harlick it's try... although I'm worried about the pronation. In her Harlicks there has been no adjustment made for the pronation, but the boots seem to hold her foot in place just fine... now, if we switch to a heat moldable boot, might it allow the pronation to "take place" inside the boot? One of her coaches said the issue of pronation has to be addressed or it will affect her knees and back later on.

We are considering Gams, but I understand they don't hold up well at all. Another consideration is going back to Reidell (although I understand the new boots aren't available in a childs size) since she never had any problems (other than breaking down fast).

[blue111moon]

Reidell will re-build boots if you ask them to.

I had one pair re-built twice. The first time they did it for free because they determined that the leather was defective and caused early breakdown. The second time I had to pay for the rebuild plus shipping but it was still a lot cheaper than new boots and there was NO break in time.

[skaternum]

Originally posted by Candleonwater
One of her coaches said the issue of pronation has to be addressed or it will affect her knees and back later on.

In my experience, this is true. Pronation that went uncorrected for a while contributed to my problems with lower back and knees. Once I got the correction I needed, my body has been much happier. It only took about a month for me to notice the difference. Unless you're getting customs from Jackson, I wouldn't assume you're going to get adequate pronation correction. Before I got my Klingbeils, I spent months stuffing my orthotics into my skates, then removing them, ad nauseum.

Good luck, whatever you guys do!

[silverskates]

Originally posted by Candleonwater
now, if we switch to a heat moldable boot, might it allow the pronation to "take place" inside the boot? One of her coaches said the issue of pronation has to be addressed or it will affect her knees and back later on.



I have the same problem as your daughter and I'm currently in Grafs. They're heat moldable and I haven't had a problem. I got them from Joe in Windsor (I think somebody mentioned him already) and he added orthotics for me which really helped. That combined with mounting the blade further inside on the boot and sanding the soles makes my feet line up the right way. Something similar could probably be done for your daughter. When they're molded, you're standing up straight so they'd be molded to the "correct" positioning of your foot - at least, Joe seemed to make sure that my feet weren't pronating when the skates were molding.

Having heat moldable skates is great though - the break in time is very short (I think after an hour or two on the ice I was doing all my doubles) and there isn't much pain when breaking them in. However, if she's breaking her skates down in 6 months, heat moldable skates break down fairly fast because they're already molded to the shape of your feet. Just some things to consider :)

That coach is right - when he fitted my skates he was surprised I didn't have any knee problems from skating with the pronation. He said things can get pretty serious if you skate like that and ignore any knee pain. One other thing he said is when you finally get something like that corrected, it can hurt for awhile until you get used to the right positioning - especially in the arches but I believe he said it could hurt the knees as well.

[manleywoman]

Originally posted by silverskates

One other thing he said is when you finally get something like that corrected, it can hurt for awhile until you get used to the right positioning - especially in the arches but I believe he said it could hurt the knees as well.

Yes, It's true. I had some pain while I got used to my orthotics, but it was only for about three weeks as your muscles get used to the new positioning. And the knee pain and lower back pain will get worse if pronation goes on too long without treatment.

I highly highly highly recommend to anyone really into figure skating the following, from my own personal experience:
1) if you have wierd feet or lots of pronation, get fitted for orthotics by a physical therapist
2) buy TWO sets of orthotics
3) wear one pair in your street shoes, send the other pair to the boot manufacturer
4) have them build the custom boot around YOUR orthotic...don't just buy one of theirs and have it put in the boot.

An orthotic is basically a blueprint of your foot, so it's the best thing to send to the boot manufacturer. And one from the therapist shows the corrections that need to be made to your foot specifically...the orthotics from the Harlicks, SPTeris, etc are made more generically, so won't be as accurate. While the manufacturer orthotics may help some people with mild pronation, it won't help everyone with larger problems. Get the orthotics from a physician! Mike sends my orthotics along every time I get new boots along with his fitting measurements. You'll get the best fit that way.

Trust me...sounds expensive to have two sets of orthotics made, but it's so worth it to be pain free and therefore really able to concentrate on your skating. Orthotics last for two years, so you do get your money's worth. Before I got orthotics, I spent $2000 in physical therapy. I bought the two pairs of orthotics, and now I only go back to the therapist to get refitted for a new pair. Much cheaper and painless in the long run.

[Debbie S]

Candleonwater, FWIW, I have GAMs now (I got them a little over a year ago) and I have been very unsatisfied with them. As I wrote in the message that started this thread, I found out from Mike that the heels and soles were uneven, causing me to shift on an edge when my feet sat flat - making it harder to get on to the edge my feet weren't leaning on and causing me to get on extremely deep edges on the "easier" sides, which I suspect has been the source of my spinning problems. I imagine that when I get my new boots, I will have some adjustments to make. When I mentioned the heel/sole problem to my instructor, he said that sometimes that can happen over time, but given that I've had problems from the beginning in these skates, I think the skates were unbalanced all along. Another thing about GAMs - Mike and I somehow got on the ubject of the material used to make the padding in the skates and on the tongue, and he mentioned that the material used on my GAMs (it is different than the other skates) is "the cheap stuff". I'm not sure if that means it's substandard, but like I said, I've had many problems with comforrt and fit in these boots.

Interesting to read the comments about pronation. When Mike saw my trying on the boots (I was bending my knees and even doing little hops up and own to recreate skating conditions and he remarked that I pronate inside. I didn't ask about orthotics, and Mike didn't seem too concerned that it could cause physical problems - I think my pronation id very mild, but perhaps I should bring that up when I go back. My problem is that I don't skate that often (a couple times a week) and I also don't want to spend the money on custom skates and orthotics. Can proper blade placement solve problems if your pronation is not that bad?

skaternum (and others whoface this situation) - The important thing to keep in mind is that it's your money, your skates, your feet, etc. Don't let someone push you into something if it's not right for you. If you meet with too much resistance, walk away. (The same advice should be used when buying a car. :) ) Yes, Mike brought out Jacksons for me to try on, along with the SP-Teris, after he looked at my feet and measured them and told me (in response to my statements that I'd looked at Harlick and SP-Teri boots at Worlds, and that I'd started out in Riedells and I'd learned their smallest adult size was too big for me) that Harlicks and Riedells would not be good for feet that were shaped like mine - wide ball, narrow heel.

We discussed my skating level and the level of boot I should get, and I tried on my options in both brands. In the end, I got the SP-Teris. I don't think he pushed Jacksons too much - he did tell me that many elite skaters were switching to Jacksons b/c Jackson was giving them free pairs, and he did have me try on Sasha Cohen's new Jackson boot at the end (but that was more for his curiosity purposes), but I felt that he just gave me info on how each boot is made and how he thought they were fitting. He took out the sole pads at the bottom of the boots and had me stand on them so he could show me the fit compared to my GAMs (which were a LOUSY fit), and we discussed special options - like a combination width or ball punching to get them to fit just right. In the end, I chose the SP-Teris and decided to go with the punching, if necessary - Mike said he was confident that was all I needed and didn't need to spend the extra money.

Bottom line - never let anyone push you into something that's not right. At the same time, research the product you are buying (good advice for any large purchase) and go to a store armed with information. Never depend on a sales person to tell you everything you might need to know. I did enough research prior to going for a fitting that I had a good idea of what boots would be good for me and what wouldn't. Obviously, take advantage of the knowledge a good boot fitter can provide, but you can't expect to depend on them completely. I pretty much did that when I went to my rink's pro shop to get my current skates and I learned a valuable lesson. Talk to other skaters, talk to coaches, and try to see boots in person if you go to a competition - at the very least, check out company websites. And if your coach or a fitter recommends a certain boot, ask them WHY. Make sure that they've taken your skating style, or your foot shape, or whatever, into account. The important thing is that the boots work for you, not any other skater.

[skaternum]

Originally posted by Debbie S
skaternum (and others whoface this situation) - The important thing to keep in mind is that it's your money, your skates, your feet, etc. Don't let someone push you into something if it's not right for you.

I'm not trying to be rude, but "Duh." This is why I wear Klingbeils now. The problem for most skaters is that there's no way to tell if skates work or don't until you've skated in them. Most skaters don't instinctively know what works for their feet. Trying on skates that feel like concrete blocks doesn't tell you much. We go to professionals who come highly recommended, and to a certain extent we have to trust them. It's not like trying on a pair of pants. When I went to Skaters Paradise and got fitted for the Jacksons, I didn't know they'd be so awful for me. It wasn't until after I'd worn them and heard that others had been "steered" toward Jackson. :roll:

[blue111moon]

DebbieS,
Yes, changing the blade placement can correct mild pronation. I have it done on my blades because it's cheaper than orthotics.

I think the best fitters should be willing to stand behind the product they sell. My skate fitter has been known to take back boots that don't fit properly. He tried me in a pair of SP-teris the last I bought boots and after a week I knew they weren't right so he took them back. I've also tried Harlicks and WIFAs (Are WIFAs still made anywhere?)and didn't find they were right for my foot. I have best luck with Reidells so we've stuck with those.

A good skate fitter should be familiar with various brands and know which brands fit which type of feet best. I'd be wary of any fitter who only stocked or pushed one brand at everyone.

[Debbie S]

Originally posted by skaternum
I'm not trying to be rude, but "Duh."

And I wasn't trying to be rude, either. You're right, most of us know next to nothing about skates, or our feet shape, when we start out and we do have to depend on people more knowledgeable than us. A lot of times, like blue111moon wrote, it's trial and error to find the best skate - many elite skaters do the same thing, and they've been skating for years. Obviously, most of us don't have the money to be sampling skates in each brand - that's where a good fitter comes in. But my point was that we also have to ask a lot of questions from a lot of different people who aren't all in a position to sell us something. I put a lot of trust in the last fitter I went to - too much - and I've since become very jaded about what people tell me. I went in to see Mike with the mindset that SP-Teris were probably the best skate for me, based on what I'd read and heard prior to going.

Now, if Mike had told me SP-Teris wouldn't be good, I would have asked why, since it would have contradicted everything I'd learned. That's not to say I wouldn't have listened, but I would have wanted to understand the specifics of his recommendation. But he brought out SP-Teri skates as I'd expected, and as for the Jacksons, well, I appreciated that he wanted to give me another option. Jacksons are also cheaper than SP-Teris, and this may have accounted for my hesitancy to get them - GAMs are also cheaper and are a little off-the-beaten-path, in terms of skate brands, although not as much as Jacksons - but I had pretty much decided ahead of time that given my horrible experience with a cheaper boot brand I'd never heard of, I was going for a well-known brand this time around. That's not always the bext attitude to take, I guess, but I did feel the SP-Teris fit better, and when I stood on just the sole pads from both boots, I saw the Teris were a little more suited to my foot. But when they come in, I plan to spend A LOT of time walking in them after the blades are mounted, and I think I might request ahead of time that the ball area be punched before I go in, since it's an overnight process and I live an hour away.

Thanks for the answer on blade placement, blue111moon. Mike is the one that pointed out the pronation to me, so I'm sure he'll keep that in mind as he mounts the blades - although I do plan to remind him of that when I go in.

[JDC1]

I feel your pain!! People at my rink say the same thing about Mike at Skater's but I really don't care if Jackson is paying him or not, I think they all get some kinda deal with the manufacturers, what bugged me was when I came back (and back) he kept trying to tell me it was me not that the boot was wrong and come to find out the boot was too big in length and width, I just chalked it up to a learning experience and won't ever go back, I just really clicked with Paul at Wings of Steel (also a boot fitter/fixer at Worlds) and that's who I'll stay with.

[manleywoman]

I will never go to Paul. I don't like how he runs his business.