Need advice for daughter's skates [Archive]

Tennisany1

08-03-2005, 08:47 PM

I'm not supposed to be here as I'm not a skater, but please be patient. I have read every post I can find on skates and blades in an attempt to educate myself prior to purchasing new skates for my daughter. She is too young to post so here I am posting for her with what is hopefully a quick question.

Background:

My daughter is 5 years old is has been skating for the past year in Jackson Mystiques. She has gone from basic forward and backward learn to skate stuff to working on a loop jump and sit spin and talking about a camel spin (but I haven't seen anything that actually looks like a camel spin!) She is also continuing to work on her spirals, bunny hops, waltz jumps, shoot the duck, salchow and toe loop. I guess this, along with the edges and stroking, is all the basic stuff she will continue with for the next few years.

She will outgrow her current Jackson Mystiques in the next 3 to 4 months. From what I have read on other posts I think she will be fine in Jacksons - they seem to fit her well and are comfortable. I do not require her to have skates beyond her ability, but at the same time, I don't want to be paying for lessons and having her equipment hold her back.

Question:

Would another pair of Mystiques last her for the next 10 to 12 months or should I be looking at the Competitor series? If I go to the Competitor series my options are:

Classique with Ultima Mark IV blade
Freestyle with Ultima Mark IV blade (Heat moldable)
Competitor with Ultima Mirage blade (Heat moldable)

I will talk to her coach and our pro shop, but I just want to have done some research so I can ask the right questions.

Thanks in advance for your help!

(I have no idea how to start a thread so if the powers that be would like to move this post elsewhere, feel free.)

Mrs Redboots

08-04-2005, 06:18 AM

You would be best advised to talk to your daughter's teacher, to see whether another pair of Mystiques would be fine at this stage (I expect so), or whether they'd recommend that she upgrade. She might also do better in Coronation Ace blades at this stage, but again, be guided by her teacher.

phoenix

08-04-2005, 02:20 PM

My guess would be the Mystiques will be fine, given she's only 5 & therefore very lightweight. Not like she's really pounding them down, right?

flo

08-04-2005, 02:33 PM

When you decide which skates to buy you may want to check out the various used skate lists or your local rinks. Used skates are good for little kids as the kids tend to outgrow the skates long before they break them down. After your daughter gets use to her new skates you may also want to the old ones for sale.

TaBalie

08-04-2005, 02:58 PM

I wanted to also suggest looking at second hand skates... Children grow so quickly, you can often find used children skates that are barely broken in!

Also, for your own daughter's skates, you might consider taping them... Then when she outgrows them, you will be able to get the best price for them since they won't have any scuff marks or tears in the leather.

I skated in rentals for the first year or so I was skating (as a child around age 7), and competed in two competitions in them -- not that I recommend that since rentals are awful.

Magz

08-04-2005, 03:33 PM

I think the Mystiques will be fine for her for awhile longer. I had Classiques and it took me about 6 months until they were broken in (I'm 16 and average weight). They were a lot stronger than I'd anticipated! Mystiques should be good until she's ready to learn an axel, I think. Good Luck!

skippyjoy_207

08-04-2005, 03:45 PM

slusher

08-04-2005, 06:08 PM

Mystiques should be fine.

stardust skies

08-04-2005, 09:07 PM

Hey, I've had a pair of Mystiques before! :)

Like Magz says, they'd probably last up to her axel, but as your daughter's working on loops now, you'd need another upgrade once you've started doubles. I'd suggest Freestyles or Competitors.

For an older kid I'd agree with you- but not for a 5 year old. You can't suggest by level only, it has to go by height/weight too. If for a, say...12 year old average weight/height skater, the Competitors are recommended for doubles, then a 5 year old would need one or two levels of boot below that, because otherwise they'd be too stiff. A boot that is too stiff can create many injuries, especially at that age when bones are still forming. They can grow in crooked, tendons can get irritated, bunions can form, overall, bad news. Ask her coach, but as a general rule, I would think that whatever she is in is fine until she graduates to doubles (which if she's working on loops might be about a year or two, depending on how much she skates and how quickly she learns), and at that point I'd look at Freestyles. Competitors should wait til she's a little older, at least ten I'd say.

This is all approximate...I don't know your daughters' height/weight/technique, but they're ballparks. Good luck.

twokidsskatemom

08-04-2005, 09:51 PM

I have had my now 6 yo in jackson freestyles now for two years.She is small, maybe 40lbs, and is working on her axle prep, and perfecting her sitspin, camel spin.She has a Mk pro blade.
I dont think it would say leave her in her current boot, I think that is more for LTS kids. You can get a Jackson boot with a blade for 150.00
Also depends on if she is skating twice a week, for an hour, or daily for 2 plus hours.You can work on a jump or spin at that age and it still takes a year or more to be good enough for a program.If she is doing her loop/loop over and over, she needs a better boot.
HTh
edited...
all I can find about that boot is its for beginners, very entry level.I would put her in a freestyle boot.

skippyjoy_207

08-05-2005, 04:36 PM

For an older kid I'd agree with you- but not for a 5 year old. You can't suggest by level only, it has to go by height/weight too. If for a, say...12 year old average weight/height skater, the Competitors are recommended for doubles, then a 5 year old would need one or two levels of boot below that, because otherwise they'd be too stiff. A boot that is too stiff can create many injuries, especially at that age when bones are still forming. They can grow in crooked, tendons can get irritated, bunions can form, overall, bad news. Ask her coach, but as a general rule, I would think that whatever she is in is fine until she graduates to doubles (which if she's working on loops might be about a year or two, depending on how much she skates and how quickly she learns), and at that point I'd look at Freestyles. Competitors should wait til she's a little older, at least ten I'd say.

This is all approximate...I don't know your daughters' height/weight/technique, but they're ballparks. Good luck.

Ahh... I see. Thanks for filling me in! :)

twokidsskatemom

08-05-2005, 05:56 PM

Ahh... I see. Thanks for filling me in! :)

I dont think the boot she is in is for even single jumps.Its a rec skate, made for skaters who skate once a month.She does need some support if she is doing any jumps at all.Even a 5 or 6 year old doing singles needs support and the jackson freestyle would be fine for her.
If in doubt, ask her group teacher or coach

http://www.skate-buys.com/icefigeq.html

skippyjoy_207

08-05-2005, 06:08 PM

I dont think the boot she is in is for even single jumps.Its a rec skate, made for skaters who skate once a month.She does need some support if she is doing any jumps at all.Even a 5 or 5 year old doing singles needs support and the jackson freestyle would be fine for her.
If in doubt, ask her group teacher or coach.http://www.skate-buys.com/icefigeq.html (http://http://www.skate-buys.com/icefigeq.html)

No, I used* to have Mystiques, back when I was in Pre-Alpha. I now have Competitors, which, as Stardust pointed out, might be too stiff, but so far, they're suiting me just fine.

twokidsskatemom

08-05-2005, 06:10 PM

No, I used* to have Mystiques, back when I was in Pre-Alpha. I now have Competitors, which, as Stardust pointed out, might be too stiff, but so far, they're suiting me just fine.

But if this 5 yo is working on jumps, she isnt in pre alpha.

Tennisany1

08-05-2005, 06:20 PM

twokidsskatemom

08-05-2005, 06:29 PM

Thank you all for your help. Hearing different opinions will help me ask the right questions when we finally go to purchase. Just for information, my daughter is about 3' 8" and weighs about 50 lbs. Most people are surprised she weighs that much as she is very thin looking. She does, however, have the most amazing thigh muscles for a kid of her age. She skates three times per week (she would like to go to four, actually she would skate every day if I let her!) and each session is 1 1/2 to 2 hours.

Her current boots look practically new and don't appear the least bit broken down. She has a really good knee bend but, with the exception of her waltz jump, still doesn't get a lot of height on her jumps. I do wonder about the quality of the blades as the Mystique are listed as recreational skates.

Thanks again, I'll let you all know what we end up with.
That is why she needs the Freestyle boot or another brand same level.A young child will rarely break down a boot before moving on.Those are rec skates.
I dont think she needs a boot like the competor right now, the main difference between the freestyle and the competor is the amount of padding.Also her spins will inprove greatly when she gets out of the boot she is in now.
If you check over on parents/coaches page, you will find a few threads talking about skates for small kids.We love jacksons but its not a right fit for all. My skaters next boot will be an Sp Terri.

Tennisany1

08-05-2005, 06:41 PM

[QUOTE=twokidsskatemom]Also her spins will inprove greatly when she gets out of the boot she is in now.

Interesting you should mention this. I would say that of all the skills she is working on she finds spins the most difficult. It could be that she is more inclined toward jumping than spinning and it may have nothing to do with the boot / blade (she is only 5 after all!), but I'll talk to her coach and the skate shop about whether or not a different boot / blade would help.

Thanks again.

twokidsskatemom

08-05-2005, 07:07 PM

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=16925

Tennisany1

08-05-2005, 07:39 PM

http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=16925
Thanks for the link. I remember reading this thread at the time it was printed. We will definitely look at the Freestyles and I will ask the skate shop about Stardustskies concern about stiffness and growing bones. I am interested in why you (twokidsskatemom) switched the blades on the Freestyle or if anyone out there has used the stock blades that come with the Freestyle. From all I have read on this site there seems to be a consensus that Coronation Aces are the way to go. According to their site; however, they are a bit above my daughter's level. If I remember correctly Four Aces?? are indicated for her level.

twokidsskatemom

08-05-2005, 07:53 PM

We did use the blade that came with the fs boot when she was 4 and 5.It was fine for one foot spins/ beginning scratch, simple footwork.There isnt anything wrong with the blade that comes with it.
We did luck out into a used mk pro blade.Right now she is ISI 3/4 and could test USFSA but we are waiting till she can put her axle into a program before testing. She also ice dances, and will test dance before her moves/fs.Its not too much blade, its just fine and will be for awhile. She skates 2 hours or so a day, 5 days a week give or take.
I think if I had a 5 year old, I would not upgrade this blade, and wait till the next time.The blade that comes with it will be fine for the next 6/8 months or however long your daughter wears her skates. It seems like here its about 8 months, and she is in a size 1.She turned 6 in may and has had this skate since March.

twokidsskatemom

08-06-2005, 02:56 PM

Usage Guidelines:
for
4 aces

ISI

Freestyle Test 4
Freestyle Test 5
Freestyle Test 6

USFSA
Freestyle 5
Freestyle 6

Skate Canada
Preliminary Freestyle, Preliminary Dances
Jr Bronze Freestyle, Jr Bronze Dances
Sr Bronze Freestyle, Sr Bronze Dances

what level is your daughter testing at? That seems like too much blade, the stock blade would be fine.

http://www.johnwilsonskates.com/blades/popups/four-aces.html

max

08-10-2005, 06:51 AM

Thanks for the link. I remember reading this thread at the time it was printed. We will definitely look at the Freestyles and I will ask the skate shop about Stardustskies concern about stiffness and growing bones. I am interested in why you (twokidsskatemom) switched the blades on the Freestyle or if anyone out there has used the stock blades that come with the Freestyle. From all I have read on this site there seems to be a consensus that Coronation Aces are the way to go. According to their site; however, they are a bit above my daughter's level. If I remember correctly Four Aces?? are indicated for her level.

In the UK, 4 Aces are generally used after Coronation Ace and before a high level Gold Seal. Coronation Ace are the blades that we would normally recommend a beginner to move in to when they are ready to move off the blades that come with the boots.

slusher

08-10-2005, 09:52 PM

I wasn't going to reply because the internet is no substitute for an experienced skate fitter, but since I've been at the skate shop with one of the kids and I was looking at the Mystiques.

Ask your kid's coach about how he/she feels about the blades on the Mystiques. Depending on where your child is jump-wise, the toe picks on the blades that come with the Mystiques are not aggressive enough, the bottom pick is not very pronounced. You need picks for the loop, so maybe Freestyles are a better choice. Listen to your coach and your skate fitter and your child's feet.

edited to add: I read back and one of the complaints is not enough height on jumps. Having a more pronounced pick can help improve the bite on the jump take off, and would show an improvement on waltz's and toe loops.

twokidsskatemom

08-10-2005, 09:57 PM

[QUOTE=slusher]I wasn't going to reply because the internet is no substitute for an experienced skate fitter, but since I've been at the skate shop with one of the kids and I was looking at the Mystiques.

Ask your kid's coach about how he/she feels about the blades on the Mystiques. Depending on where your child is jump-wise, the toe picks on the blades that come with the Mystiques are not aggressive enough, the bottom pick is not very pronounced. You need picks for the loop, so maybe Freestyles are a better choice. Listen to your coach and your skate fitter and your child's feet

I agree with you, which is why those skates are rec skates.Nothing wrong with them, but rec skates are rec skates.Not Figure skaters skates :)

slusher

08-10-2005, 10:11 PM

I'm hoping you agreed with the part about leave it up to the coach and the skate fitter. They can decide what a "recreational" skate is.

twokidsskatemom

08-10-2005, 10:21 PM

I'm hoping you agreed with the part about leave it up to the coach and the skate fitter. They can decide what a "recreational" skate is.
I just know what I have read from Jacksons page the past two years,from all the information over two years from other sources other than jackson itself.That skate is made for a child who skates rec, not someone who has lessons one or twice a week and is working on single jumps.Not enough padding for one thing.Her skaters foot need support.Some times coaches dont have the answers. Sometimes parents need to find out all they can.How many students that are 5 has that coach taught that are working on single jumps?
I didnt discount the skate or the skater. I just said for a child that age.... which I have one that age.. that wouldnt be the skate that would be the BEST for her if they are investing money in lessons.
We all dont have skater fitters or pro shop, which is why as a parent, I have read everything I can about this subject.Dont need to take my advise, its still all good :)
edited to add...
I just found abrand new pair of these online for 70.00.A skater even small doing a loop jump needs more support than a 70.00 pair of skates.That is why I said they are rec skates.
No, I dont agree that all the time, a coach will know what skate to wear.Its up to the parent to make an INFORMED choice based on information, either from the coach,doing a search themselves or both.

Tennisany1

08-11-2005, 01:07 AM

Wow! you guys are great! Such helpful information.

I've had complaints about "crunchy toes," so I expect we will be looking for new boots in early September. I'll let you know how it goes.

(About the Four Aces, I obviously had the wrong name in my head. I went back to the web site and that couldn't be the right one. It is too advanced.)

Casey

08-11-2005, 03:21 AM

In the UK, 4 Aces are generally used after Coronation Ace and before a high level Gold Seal. Coronation Ace are the blades that we would normally recommend a beginner to move in to when they are ready to move off the blades that come with the boots.
Coronation Aces and Four Aces are identical blades, except that the Coronation Aces have a crosscut toepick whereas the four aces have a straight cut toepick. The Gold Seal is significantly different from either in that it's a flatter blade and is made of stronger metal for handling triple/quad jumps, and has a solid front sole plate. It also has a crosscut toepick.

crayonskater

08-11-2005, 09:11 AM

I skated on Mystiques mostly recreationally for about a year, and whoever upthread mentioned that the blades are not 'real' figure skating blades is 100% correct. Teeny tiny toepicks, blades are kind of not that great. They had a surprising amount of support at first -- I did learn a rudimentary toe loop in them when I had no business learning a toe loop -- but they did break down quickly.

They have a plastic sole, correct? So it's not like you can change the blade.

I upgraded, on my coach's advice ('If you want to do this, you're going to need real skates'), to the Jackson Competitors with the Mirage blades. I've been happy with them.

Now, of course, your daughter isn't an adult or 125 pounds, but from my coach, who owns a skate shop, he said that Mystiques are generally suitable 'for a recreational skater who skates an hour a week, if she's 100 pounds they'll last a year'.

Mrs Redboots

08-11-2005, 09:33 AM

Now, of course, your daughter isn't an adult or 125 pounds, but from my coach, who owns a skate shop, he said that Mystiques are generally suitable 'for a recreational skater who skates an hour a week, if she's 100 pounds they'll last a year'.Which is probably as long as they'll be wanted, as children outgrow their skates all too quickly.

However, there's no law that says you have to stick with the blades that come with the boots, is there? I know my first pair of skates came with some beginner blades on them, and after six months I upgraded to Coronation Ace, and wished I'd done it three months earlier! I've only just moved on from the dance equivalents (Husband still has Coronation Dance, and I didn't really need my John Watts Dance, but oh, I do like them!) after all these years.

crayonskater

08-11-2005, 09:37 AM

Skate@Delaware

08-11-2005, 09:52 AM

I upgraded to Coronation Comets (my first boots were the Jackson Competitors) I wish that I had upgraded the blades when I started skating.

Yeah, it would have been a big jump from the Mirage blades I started with, but what a big difference (I'm a strong skater in the stroking dept and already had nice edges).... When I got them---WOW!!! Whispersssss on the ice and glides like a hot knife through butter! Didn't really have a huge toepick adjustment either.

twokidsskatemom

08-11-2005, 09:56 AM

Of course -- and they are pretty sturdy. Chances are she'd outgrow them before breaking them down. The only thing I'm worried about is that the blades are BLEH, and with a plastic sole with all the screws in I'm not sure if the blades can be upgraded or not.

The blades cant be upgraded on that boot.That is why its a rec skate. It Isnt for a 5 year old working on jumps and spins UNLESS its all the parent can afford. If this skater is having two lessons a week, they need SUPPORT for her ankle.Have one less lesson a week and get a better boot/ blade. Will make a huge amount of difference.
The jackson fs boot with a stock blade isnt too much for a 50lb child.I didnt say put her in a 500 boot that is too stiff.
Sometimes coaches dont have a clue about skates for low level skaters, if most of their skaters are pre pre or above. That is why as a parent, its my job to find out as much as I can and make a choice based on what Ifind out.

crayonskater

08-11-2005, 02:28 PM

The blades cant be upgraded on that boot.That is why its a rec skate. It Isnt for a 5 year old working on jumps and spins UNLESS its all the parent can afford. If this skater is having two lessons a week, they need SUPPORT for her ankle.Have one less lesson a week and get a better boot/ blade. Will make a huge amount of difference.
The jackson fs boot with a stock blade isnt too much for a 50lb child.I didnt say put her in a 500 boot that is too stiff.
Sometimes coaches dont have a clue about skates for low level skaters, if most of their skaters are pre pre or above. That is why as a parent, its my job to find out as much as I can and make a choice based on what Ifind out.

I'm not quite certain why you're jumping down my throat on this when I'm basically agreeing with you that Mystiques are not good past Learn-To-Skate, but whatever. They make a sturdy rec skate. You can do waltz jumps in them. You can do singles in them without spraining your ankle, but they're not ideal for it and while it's one thing to learn singles in the boot you already have, it's another thing to buy a boot that really isn't meant for what you're putting it through.

I haven't had any experience with the Jackson Freestyles but the Competitors are nice, not too stiff (though I would keep stardust's caveats in mind), and Jackson recommends them for skaters learning their singles.

twokidsskatemom

08-11-2005, 03:08 PM

I'm not quite certain why you're jumping down my throat on this when I'm basically agreeing with you that Mystiques are not good past Learn-To-Skate, but whatever. They make a sturdy rec skate. You can do waltz jumps in them. You can do singles in them without spraining your ankle, but they're not ideal for it and while it's one thing to learn singles in the boot you already have, it's another thing to buy a boot that really isn't meant for what you're putting it through.

I haven't had any experience with the Jackson Freestyles but the Competitors are nice, not too stiff (though I would keep stardust's caveats in mind), and Jackson recommends them for skaters learning their singles.

I wasnt jumping down your throat at all. Just AGREEING with you, that it is a rec skate.AGREEING with you, that the blade will not come off and cant be changed.AGREEING with you.
I was replying to the person above, that its not up to the coach alone to make a choice about the childs skate.
I didnt say you cant learn single jumps in them.What I was trying to say, is if your 5 year old is skating that much and they are paying for lessons, then upgrade to a better boot and blade.I didnt say there was anything wrong with that boot, but its really not meant to skate on 4 hours or so a week.
I was GIVING my OPINION, as a MOM of two skaters who are 4 and 6.I see kids who parents spend alot of money on skating but will not spend 150.00 on a decent boot/blade.
She doesnt need a stiffer boot , like the one you have.She does need a decent boot, like the jackson freestyle, that has some padding and support.The boot she has now has no decent toe pick and not alot of support.
The op asked for peoples thoughts. I gave my thoughts, as someone who has done alot of research on skates.I dont care if she has Ridells, jacksons or any other brand. That has to do with each skaters foot.Every skater is different in that aspect.What I was trying to say as a MOM, is that I wouldnt have a 5 year old who skates that much in a cheap skate with little support.Her daugher outweights my skater,so at least she needs the same support in her ankle as my skater does.

Tennisany1

08-11-2005, 03:21 PM

Sometimes coaches dont have a clue about skates for low level skaters, if most of their skaters are pre pre or above. That is why as a parent, its my job to find out as much as I can and make a choice based on what Ifind out.

This is exactly why I decided to ask advice here. I will, of course, speak with her coach and our skate shop, but it helps to have done some research ahead of time. She will be skating four times per week in the fall (two groups, two privates, plus practice time) so I want to make sure her equipment is appropriate for her age/weight as well as the level and frequency of her skating.

Thanks again.

twokidsskatemom

08-11-2005, 03:36 PM

This is exactly why I decided to ask advice here. I will, of course, speak with her coach and our skate shop, but it helps to have done some research ahead of time. She will be skating four times per week in the fall (two groups, two privates, plus practice time) so I want to make sure her equipment is appropriate for her age/weight as well as the level and frequency of her skating.

Thanks again.

I will tell you when my daughter started with her coach, her coach had all her kids in SPTerris, as they were all HIGH level kids.Her coach really never had someone who was so young, who skated as much as my daughter. I asked her what skates and she just really had no clue. Didnt make her a bad coach, she just never had a small child doing such things.I did research, and now her coach RECOMMENDS and is very happy with Jacksons for her lower level skaters.Its a well made boot, with very little break in time.
I think the point I was trying to make way back was I really feel strongly that a PARENT of a young skater really needs to find out as much as you can about everything.Its your CHILD, not the coaches.I do ask for her coaches input, but its still my child and my pocketbook.We as a team make choices together, not just the coach.
My 2 long cents anyway.
please let us know what skate you pick. I would sell you my daughter size one when she outgrows it lol :)

Tennisany1

08-11-2005, 03:45 PM

I would sell you my daughter size one when she outgrows it lol :)

She is in 13's right now so unless your plans a growth spurt in the next two weeks I think it will be too late. Maybe they'll match up for the next pair!

Thanks anyway!

I'll let you know what we end up with.

Mrs Redboots

08-12-2005, 04:24 AM

Edited a rant about unqualified coaches that I probably shouldn't have posted and wouldn't have if I wasn't feeling so rotten! Sorry.....

(All the same, a properly trained coach is trained to know about skating boots and blades, what each individual skater - no matter how much a beginner they are - would need, and when they need new ones, a blade sharpening or an upgrade. And even an unqualified schoolgirl knows who fits her boots and can recommend a good sharpener!).

twokidsskatemom

08-12-2005, 02:07 PM

sorry that you feel bad:{
However, our coach is a PSA master ranked,ISI gold judge coach, who has taken kids to Jr nationals and nationals.
All of her kids however, have been kids working on doubles.She didnt know what boot would be good for a 40lb girl working on singles at age 4 and 5.All of her kids are in SP terris which are way too stiff for my skater
I never said she knew nothing about sharping, or about boots or blades.But we do live in a place with no pro shops or fitters, and to even get the blades sharpened, we have to send them 400 miles away.

Even if I had a coach who could tell me, its STILL up to the PARENTS to make the choices.STILL my kid, not the coaches.I still nedd to do research and find out the best for OUR family.

Lmarletto

08-12-2005, 04:12 PM

My daughter is about the same size, age and level. We recently upgraded from Riedell Blue Ribbons to Jackson Freestyle with the stock blade. There was immediately an improvement in her skating, though recently she is down to skating 1-2X/week so there has not been as dramatic an improvement since then. I suspect she will outgrow this skate before she even begins to really break it in. In fact we will probably move up in blade before we move up in boot. Competitors would definitely have been too stiff for her. I think the ideal situation would have been a Blue Ribbon (or Mystique) boot with a better blade, but that's not an option with a plastic sole.

BTW, the main reason we switched from Riedell to Jackson was that the next boot up in Riedell seemed at least as stiff as the Competitor. Fortunately, she seems just as comfortable in the Jacksons as she was in the Riedells.

Psycho121

08-15-2005, 01:40 PM

I work at Cyclone Taylor Figure Skating (www.figureskatingdeals.com), as well as being a national champion, so here's my advice. She's 5. Stick to the mystique. It is strong enough, heat mouldable, and shes comfortable in her current pair. When she starts working on doubles, move up to the Freestyle or Competitor. We also have some used Freestyles at our store, which may be suitable if her coach wants a bit more support. Good luck!

twokidsskatemom

08-15-2005, 03:16 PM

That is funny, on jacksons information, skates with plastic heels arent heatmoldable, and are listed as a rec/skate, not even a instructional skate for LTS classes.
Once again, as a mom, I wouldnt have My skater skating 4 days a week and doing jumps in that skate.Neither would my skaters coach, or any coach that we have in town.
Please tell me where you find information that a 70 $ skate would be good till they land doubles? I would like to see that.She might be ABLE to, but that doesnt mean its the BEST idea.There is NO SUPPORT in that skate for her jumps.
Im not being rude, just would love to see the information.

http://www.jacksonskates.com/html/frames/frameset-prod.html doesnt say heat moldable
http://www.jacksonskates.com/html/frames/frameset-prod.html
does say heat moldable
http://www.jacksonskates.com/html/care.html talks about which ones are heat moldable.

edited to add. I just checked your page.Athought your page has the heatmoldable logo for that boot, in the fine print , its DOESNT say heatmoldable. However, on the fs boot, its does say HEATMOLDABLE in the fine print.Look at the two boots, look at the toe pick.Not much for someone who is learning jumps and skating 4 days every week !!You have good oictures on that site, you can see the difference.

Psycho121

08-15-2005, 08:09 PM

twokidsskatemom

08-15-2005, 09:00 PM

We heat-mould the mystique in our skate oven without any problems. The heel does not melt, or soften at all. A quick 3 minutes or so brings enough flexibility to the leather to allow it to mould comfortably around the skaters foot. You can say otherwise, but we do it and it works wonderfully, and we continue to do it. The freestyle is quite stiff for a 5 year old working on a loop jump. She may be strong enough to use such a boot, but without seeing her, I have to base that decision on what the coach says. I personally think a Freestyle is too stiff. The toepick on the mystique is plenty good enough for learning single jumps. Too much toepick and shes going to be tripping all the time. Anyway, that's my opinion, and it seems to work for a lot of people. I'm not saying the Freestyle is a bad boot. It's a great boot and one of our larger sellers, but for a 5 year old, I think it's too much.

Talk to the coach. He/She sees the skater every day and can better assess her skating level to determine if she needs a stiffer boot.

You might do it, but the maker doesnt recomend it!!! I called them and asked them.Lets see, I think I will go with what the maker said....
Every 5 and 6 year old we know is in a freestyle boot, and we know alot.Jackson ITSELF doesnt recommend it for some one skating that much, the cheaper boot..My skater has been in jackson Freestyle for almost 2 years and doesnt trip on the toepick.Why would she?
She can ask her coach or CALL jackson !!!!! They will tell you the same thing.
Her coach didnt recomend the cheap boot, that is just what she is in and the MOM is looking for inout on new boots.Im not telling her to go againist what her COACH would tell her, but you arent the coach or a mom of a 5 year old who skates 4 days a week.
I , as a mom, can say My 4, 5, and now 6 year old did and does fine in that boot.Maybe she would have done fine in the cheaper boot, our shops dont even carry them.I dont think there is padding enough for a skater who skates alot and is doing jumps and jump combos.

Psycho121

08-15-2005, 11:56 PM

Ok. Then get the freestyle, there's no problem. If they're fit properly then she'll be able to skate fine. I can't really remember what skating is like when i was 5. Anyway, i'm not going to argue at all with what the coach says. The freestyle will be just fine. As for the heat moulding of mystiques, we've never ever had a problem with it, and we do it to almost every pair that's local. I repeat, we've never had a problem. It's fine. As long as you know what you're doing. We do. :)

twokidsskatemom

08-16-2005, 01:30 AM

Its nice that you know what you are doing.
However I called our pro shop, one in Seattle that we have used, and jackson itself and we were told the same things.
They really arent for anything more than rec skating, and they arent heat moldable.The toe pick isnt really good for a 50lb kid doing toe jumps.
Maybe in Canada its different, the Usa doesnt have the same tracks that you all use.I just know what we do here.

flippet

08-16-2005, 09:27 AM

I'm beginning to think of re-instating the "three-post rule" (really more of a rule of thumb, but anyway). The idea is...if you've posted basically the same argument three times, and it doesn't seem to be catching on, then it never will, so give it up. Those who want to take your advice will, and those who don't, well, twenty or a hundred more posts saying the same thing aren't going to make a difference, other than annoying everyone else.

Let's agree to disagree here, ok?

~flippet

twokidsskatemom

08-16-2005, 10:05 AM

TaBalie

08-16-2005, 10:38 AM

I don't know much about kids skates anymore (when I first started, I was still in rentals for my first competitions and most of my single jumps :) ) But as 5 years old, stay with less stiff boots or used boots (is that not an option? I haven't hear this brought up again) -- at that weight (and the force she is using) it is pointless to over-buy since her feet are growing.

However, I wanted to make a comment about "heat-moldable." Boots (whether they are ski or skate) that are heat-moldable are heat moldable because they have a plastic shell sandwiched between the leather that responds to heat. When heated, this plastic shell becomes pliable, and can form around the foot while cooling. Once it has cooled, the plastic stays in the new shape until it is heated again.

The Mystiques that are not officially heat-moldable don't have this shell. However, whenever leather gets warm, it becomes more pliable, and therefore can more quickly conform to the wearer's foot.

So I believe that people "heat-mold" Mystiques, but it is not really the same thing as boots that have the special heat-moldable plastic-shell. With Mystiques, you are just warming and softening the uppers.

slusher

08-21-2005, 02:21 PM

I was at the skate shop yesterday and took a look at the new shipment of skates. We were there for the hockey dude so I had time to poke around the "white section". This is a big skate store, they have all the lines.

I am NOT impressed with the blade on the Jackson Freestyle that was just in. Oh the pick configuration is ok, but it is stamped "Mark IV" and also "Ultima" but in no way is similar in quality to the old MK Mark brand. I felt that was misleading, to keep the name when the blade is nothing what it used to be.

After looking at all the skates, GAM's looked pretty promising.

And by the way, there's no such thing as cheap hockey skates. 8O

twokidsskatemom

08-21-2005, 02:52 PM

That is why we went with the jackson freestyle boot but the mk pro blade.My daughter doesnt need a stiffer boot but she does need the blade upgrade.

mikawendy

08-21-2005, 04:03 PM

That is why we went with the jackson freestyle boot but the mk pro blade.My daughter doesnt need a stiffer boot but she does need the blade upgrade.

I think she'll be happy with the blade. I have the MK Pro, and some of my friends do, and we all loved it when we made the switch! It took a little bit of getting used to the bigger toe pick. I took a nasty spill on my knee without pads because of the bigger pick in the start, but now I'm used to it.

slusher

08-21-2005, 04:04 PM

icedancer2

08-21-2005, 04:10 PM

I didn't want to get into past purchases. I just wanted to point out that if people are posting about certain skates and blades, they change every year so buyer beware. Ultima Mark IV blade is not not the same as the old MK IV blade.

This is so very true. And just because you Loved the last pair doesn't necessariliy mean this pair is going to be the same!! :giveup:

twokidsskatemom

08-21-2005, 04:18 PM

I didn't want to get into past purchases. I just wanted to point out that if people are posting about certain skates and blades, they change every year so buyer beware. Ultima Mark IV blade is not not the same as the old MK IV blade.

Ok
I am buying a new pair of jackson freestyle boots and we are getting the mk pro blade.Size 2.
Yes, things change on boots and blades all the time.

Tennisany1

08-31-2005, 05:57 PM

First off, thanks again for all the advice. I felt much more confident at the skate shop this morning than I otherwise would have.

We have ended up with a pair of GAMS. It wasn't where I thought we were going but I did hear a number of positive reviews from skaters at our club and the fitter thinks they are good match for my daughter's foot. We have managed to match a fairly light boot (recommended by the fitter for her age and size) with a more advanced blade (better for spinning and a better toe pick for jumps.) Assuming she doesn't have a growth spurt (you know it's coming now) they should do her until she starts an axel.

Just for information, he felt the Mystique has lots of support for such an inexpensive boot, but the blade was totally inappropriate for my daughter's current level. As she almost always wears over the boot tights, the skates are in great shape so I should be able to sell them.

Mrs Redboots

09-01-2005, 04:12 AM

Oh, Gams are lovely, I'm in my second pair! They come in all strengths, from bedroom slippers to concrete - and even fur-lined for coaches! And they are so-o-o-o comfortable. My mid-range pair (model 070) took all of a week to be "my boots".

I do hope your daughter doesn't grow out of them too quickly - but if they suit her, you'll know what to go for next time! "The mixture as before", but adapted to her increasing size & skating level.