Adult Pairs Elements

[NoVa Sk8r]

I was wondering if anyone could provide a somewhat detailed (the more, the better!) report on what elements the adult pairs executed at Adult Nationals. My pseudo-/semi-/quasi-pairs partner and I are interested in what adult pairs teams need in order to be competitive--SBS spins/jumps, footwork, lifts, spiral sequences???
Any feedback is appreciated...

[skaternum]

See the recent Adult Nationals thread. There's a post or two in there about what was seen at AN this year. Here's one comment from it:

"... no team tried any throw double jumps or spilt double twists. every team tried eather a throw loop or a throw waltz jump. Only one team that i can think of had a combination spin in their program. Only 2 teams had overhead lifts. Paul Mata and his partner did a press lift and a platter star lift but fell short of the required rotations on the lifts and had a deduction for it. She two footed alot of the elements. Every team i belive tried the back outside death spiral. One thing that was lacking in all of the programs was footwork. The teams need more speed and unision in their programs but overall the event was very exciting to watch."

I saw from looking at the pictures that one team did a FI death spiral.

Also, here's a post I made in response to a similar question last month. (This question comes up periodically.) I'm amending it slightly to correct some info ...

"I didn't see this particular event, but here are some thoughts. Check out the combined summer months' issue of Skating Magazine to read about the Adult & Masters pairs events at the last Adult Nationals. There are usually summaries of elements in the top 3 programs in each."

"Here's an example of an Adult Pairs event at a recent adult comp. The elements included: 1st place: BO death spiral, throw loop (2ft), press lift, platter lift into star lift, pairs camel spin, short spiral sequence, split twist lift, 1 or 2 sbs jump combos (I forget what). 2nd place: sbs camel spins, long spiral sequence with 4 changes of position, throw waltz, loop lift (not fully overhead), "baby doll" lift, pairs tango camel spin, 2 sbs jump combos (falling leaf-toe and loop-loop), straightline footwork sequence."

And, by the way, the correct term for Adult Pairs is "Faux Pairs." ;)

[KathySkates]

Why is it called "Faux Pairs"?

[skaternum]

It's a little joke that came up in another thread here. That's what my partner and I started calling it. I'm 38 with a bad back and a knee that's already been fixed once; he's 40. It's kinda lame, in an endearing middle-aged way. :) The kids we skate with think it's a hoot. We told some of the folks here that we'd drop the "faux" part once he can keep me locked overhead on the ice! (We've got 2 overheads off ice, but that's ever so much easier.)

So we also call our coach a "faux coach!" Ha!

[KathySkates]

Shame on you! You ARE a pairs skater! And you've done overhead lifts!!!!!! WOW! I am totally impressed and I don't think that you should sell yourself short!

[skaternum]

Yeah, well, you haven't seen our attempts at a Death Spiral! Or as we've renamed it, our Lingering Illness Spiral. :D It's so bad that another pairs coach (Russian) came over and said to my partner, "Are you tryink to keel her?" It was too funny. We've also renamed the Catch Camel pairs spin as Catch-as-catch-can camel because sometimes we do, and sometimes we don't!

But I swear, as soon as we've got that overhead on the ice, we're dropping the word Faux. Promise!

[kayskate]

Just curious. I would think pairs skating would be very difficult and dangerous for people who did not learn to skate as children. I knew one younger adult (~28) who was learning pairs. She was under 5' and had skated a little as a kid. Skaternum (and other adult pairs), did you do pairs or FS as a child?

Kay

[Clarice]

My friends Anne and John, who just won Adult Pairs at Nationals, are both "real" adult skaters - that is, neither one of them skated as a child.

[icechick]

Pairs, for adults, is no harder than singles--- just LOTS more fun :D !!! I've been skating for nearly six years and wouldn't consider anything but pairs. I've had several partners, but none that worked out. Am getting ready to test Adult Silver Pairs and have a tryout coming in from the west coast (I'm in the southeast) soon--- we've been corresponding for over a year and both love difficult lifts and special "tricks" (Detroiters, headbangers, etc.), so I hope that we hit it off. Overheads are the best (you feel on top of the world!!!!) and I also love throws-- the higher, the better--- suspended in the air is REALLY like flying!!!! Death spirals are okay, as are pair spins. Aching to get a throw double-loop, though! (Have all of my lifts and a few combinations).

Best wishes to all of you adult pair skaters....maybe we'll meet up at a comp someday?!

[flo]

Hi,
Pairs can be more dangerous just because of the nature of the event, but can be learned as an adult. My first partner and I started pairs together as adults, and we did fine. Now I have juvenile and silver pair tests.
Keep in mind that when you have two adult skaters starting pairs as adults, it can take a good bit of time. I would suggest a qualified coach who's interested in teaching adults. It's important to have someone there who can look out for your safety. Don't worry that you and your new partner have not skated pairs. Although it's much easier to learn pairs with an experienced partner like your coach - there are also advantages learning together with another adult. With an inexperienced partner you learn to the basics, and how to adapt to eachother and how to really work as a team. After that you will be able to giude to anyone!
As for the competitions, I've competed in adult and masters, and the most important element out there is confidence. Whatever you do, do it well and safely. I have spoken with many pair judges, and they would much rather see a team executing solid skills, than watch a poorly done more advanced element.
Enjoy

[skaternum]

I agree with what flo said. My faux partner did skate as a kid, but not to a very high level. I didn't start skating until I was 30. And we just started trying pairs last Fall. Flo is right that it takes a lot longer to learn pairs as a couple of "beginners." I swear sometimes it seems like we'll never get an element! (Because of this, we also occasionally refer to what we do as Remedial Pairs.) A couple of times there's been an element that my partner and I are really struggling with, and I've tried it with an experienced coach, and it's the easiest thing in the world. But I wouldn't trade being able to "fight through it" with my partner. It really does make us work better as a *team.* (Anybody here remember our t-shirts in DC? :) )

Because of the fact that we're two full-grown adults without much height differential, it does make the physics of some of the elements tougher, like lifts and death spirals. But we try to be really careful, and our coach works with us off-ice, which is important. So far, neither of us have been injured too badly -- nothing more than a few bruises or a strained muscle. Not much different from adult singles. But it sure is fun!

[flo]

Skaternum - You look great - keep going!

[NoVa Sk8r]

Well said, flo. You actually helped me and looploop with some of our lifts at the adult competition in Ashburn. :) thankx!
I don't know if we'll ever compete (we're pretty engrossed in our 'singles events'), but we enjoy doing sbs jumps, among other 'tricks.' I think we have a really nice spiral sequence (3 great changes of positions), which ends in us doing inside spread eagles into sbs loop jumps. Confidence and presentation seem to be even more important in pairs skating (though what do I know?).
I think what also helps is that partner and I are pretty strong singles skaters. In addition, I am somewhat an extrovert on the ice (my strength! in fact, when some of my competition footwork is messy, which is nearly always, my coach says to distract the judges with inventive hand movements--JAZZ HANDS!), and looploop is excellent at footwork. I know her adeptness at footwork inspires me to try harder sequences, though I haven't inspired her yet to JAZZHANDS level. I'm still working on that.

PAIRSK8r, good luck with your throw double loop. I've got the throw waltz and throw salchow, and am hoping to learn the throw loop someday. You might remember me: I used to skate at the Triangle Sportsplex (as of 2 years ago). Good luck with your endeavors!

[icechick]

NoVa Sk8r....I agree that presentation, as well as showing a sense of truly connecting with one's partner is so important. But, as flo said, that takes time! As I await my next tryout, I'm working hard with my coach on both the technical and presentation.

I probably do remember you from the Sportsplex! I'm still there, as well as at the IcePlex in Raleigh (and the RecZone-- a new rink in Raleigh). Give me a hint as to who you are....who was your coach, what was your level, what music did you skate to?

[NoVa Sk8r]

Pairsk8r,
When i skated in Hillsborough, I was in my mid-20's, about 6' 1", dark hair, strong upper body (my coach now calls me "top-heavy!"). I used to skate on sunday afternoons all the time. I didn't have a coach or a program at the time. I guess I was intermediate adult. I'm sure if you saw me, you'd recognize me. I skated with all the Sportsplex regulars (melinda, heather, david, and a few times with chad and cindy).

[icechick]

NoVa Sk8r....were you there when Chad & I were skating pairs? Was I working as a trainer in the fitness room at the time? I never skated on public sessions-- is that when you skated (on Sundays?). Gee, wish I could place you :?: !!!!

[icechick]

OHHHH...Chad just helped me figure out who you are....you were working on your doctoral thesis, right? How's it going? I'm sure that all of your Sunday afternoon buddies miss you! Well, good luck with your skating, etc.!

[NoVa Sk8r]

YES YES YES, you got it. I finally earned my Ph.D. in chemistry at Duke and (sadly) moved away to DC.
Are you and Chad occasionally skating pairs?...Is he still skating? I remember he had almost all of his doubles.
He's now eligible to compete in the adult track, right?

[skaternum]

Originally posted by flo
Skaternum - You look great - keep going!

You're very kind, flo! :oops:

[icechick]

:D Hey, NoVa Sk8r!!!!! Great to hear from you! No, Chad & I still skate "together," but not pairs. Actually, we work at Duke together now too (!). He's got all of his doubles, except 2-axel, which is sooooooo there, but he doesn't have the confidence to go for the landing......doesn't reach for the ice! It'll be there soon, though, and he'll have his 3-sal & 3-toe in no time (he's landed them, but sporadically. He's working on a program now for AN next year (Championship Masters) and wants to compete in August at Peach Classic.

In other news (assuming that you're not in touch with other folks from the Sportsplex), Debbie returned from DE and is going to school & coaching :( Also Anthony & Christie are skating pairs, testing up to Senior and, one hopes, that will get Anthony back to Nationals (3 times w/Debbie?). Since they both skate "the other way," they look pretty good together. Other than that, nuthin' from Hillsborough. Jane Bugaeva (don't know if you know her, but she was good friends with my daughter & I taught her off-ice conditioning for several years @The Ice House in Cary) placed 5th in Jr. Ladies @Nationals & took the Bronze at the recent comp in Slovenia. She's got all of her triples and a nice 3-lutz/2-toe combo....maybe she's going somewhere!?

NEWAYZ, again, good to hear from you....try to enjoy DC...so many people I know want to move there!

[skaternum]

Thanks to club & the USFSA web sites, we can see how many adult pair teams compete, but I wonder how many there are that don't compete. How many of you have adult pairs where you skate? How many are looking for a partner? Anecdotally, it seems like there are more now than there used to be. People like me & my partner who enjoy doing it as a side note to our "regular" skating. Any thoughts?

[Mrs Redboots]

Originally posted by skaternum
How many of you have adult pairs where you skate? Trying this for the third time!

We have 3 adult pairs, none coached by my coach (although he'd love to; he's a former pairs skater, as is the coach who does coach the adult pairs). One pair has now "retired" from competition, although they still compete in the "Small Group Artistic" classes, open for 2-5 people. Another has yet to compete, although I think we'll see them in the Small Group Artistic this year at Bracknell; they have a very funny routine that makes me smile whenever I see it. The third couple did compete in Adult Pairs last year, but I rather think they have got to the stage where it scares them, and they may well decide to dance together instead.

Incidentally, one year at Bracknell there were, I think, four pairs competing, of whom only one couple was under 60 - and of them, the woman, at any rate, was well over 50. All the other couples were in their 60s, at the youngest, and at least 3 of the skaters were well over 70. So there is still plenty of time.

I did try pairs, with my husband, but decided it wasn't for me, although if we had more time we might do another Small Group Artistic, since the one we did went down very well.

[LoopLoop]

Originally posted by NoVa Sk8r
Well said, flo. You actually helped me and looploop with some of our lifts at the adult competition in Ashburn. :) thankx!
I don't know if we'll ever compete (we're pretty engrossed in our 'singles events'), but we enjoy doing sbs jumps, among other 'tricks.' I think we have a really nice spiral sequence (3 great changes of positions), which ends in us doing inside spread eagles into sbs loop jumps. Confidence and presentation seem to be even more important in pairs skating (though what do I know?).
I think what also helps is that partner and I are pretty strong singles skaters. In addition, I am somewhat an extrovert on the ice (my strength! in fact, when some of my competition footwork is messy, which is nearly always, my coach says to distract the judges with inventive hand movements--JAZZ HANDS!), and looploop is excellent at footwork. I know her adeptness at footwork inspires me to try harder sequences, though I haven't inspired her yet to JAZZHANDS level. I'm still working on that.


NoVASkater definitely has the presentation part of skating... somewhat of an extrovert??? I don't know if I'll ever get to your JAZZHANDS level; I'm a natural introvert, so for me the worst part of competing is the fact that people (and judges of course) are watching! So I'll handle the technical and you dazzle them with your arms!

LoopLoop

[NoVa Sk8r]

LoopLoop:
Hurray, you're back!

[skaternum]

Yeah, looploop, but he's right -- you've got the footwork!! And remember what I tell my faux partner: it's all about the girl. Make me look good, and you get to live another day! Ha! :)

[LoopLoop]

Not back yet... I've had a few breaks today when I could get online, but I fly back tonight. See you Sunday night!

[NoVa Sk8r]

Loops and I have decided that a great exhibition piece for us would be "She Hates Me" by Puddle of Mudd. Surprisingly, she has no trouble at all acting out the theme of the music. :??
Hmmmmmm......

[skaternum]

NoVa, too funny! Perhaps I'll suggest some similar music to my faux partner. Maybe "Can't Find a Better Man" by Pearl Jam. :twisted: How about a few country & western songs? I found these great titles to suggest to him:

Her Only Bad Habit is Me
You Ain't Woman Enough To Take My Man
You're Out of Step with the Beat of my Heart

Or some good pop music:
You Spin Me 'Right Round (like a record) -- Dead or Alive
2 become 1 -- Spice Girls
Anything but Down -- Sheryl Crow (for those scary lifts)
Crash Into Me -- Dave Matthews (for those pair spins gone bad)
The Next Time I Fall -- Peter Cetera (been there, done that)

Of course he could always suggest:
Witchy Woman -- Eagles
Breaking the Girl -- Red Hot Chili Peppers
Hard to Handle -- Black Crowes

Hmm. This is kinda fun. :)

[NoVa Sk8r]

Skaternum, awesome suggestions, I'm sure David would love them.
How 'bout:

"Dizzy" - Goo Goo Dolls (from their album "Dizzy Up the Girl"!!!)

"You're My Favorite Mistake" - Sheryl Crow

"Fallin'" - Alicia Keyes (very apropos for beginning pairs!)

"Aerials" - System of a Down

"Running Away" - Hoobastank (Here, I get to do my Paul Wylie running impersonation!)
OR "I Ran So Far Away" - Flock of Seagulls

"No More Drama" - Mary J Blige (Hmmmmmmm, I guess this is really a theme piece for me!)

"Spin" - Lifehouse

"A Girl Like You" - Smithereens

"I Believe I Can Fly" - R. Kelly (think of all the great moments in this song for overhead lifts, not to mention the controversy of using a song by a possible felon singer) and.........
"Higher" - Creed (even better "lift" moments)

"Lady in Red" - Chris DeBurgh (I think Loops likes red...)

"She Bangs" - Ricky Martin (on second thought , this would really make this an adult number:P )

"Sour Girl" - Stone Temple Pilot

"Walking After You" - Foo Fighters (This is a grea tsong and it's on the X-Files soundtrack)

[LoopLoop]

:D :D

[skaternum]

Excellent, NoVa! I like "Aerials" and "Dizzy" and "Sour Girl." Especially Sour Girl. :twisted: I'm sure David would agree!

How's about:
Happiness in Slavery -- Nine Inch Nails
Don't Let Go -- Weezer
Suicide Freestyle -- Ja Rule (okay, so save that for a singles program!)
Hero Worship -- B-52s (awwwww.)

I like this game!

[NoVa Sk8r]

Actually, in line with your faux pairs shirts, "Stupid Girl" by Garbage would be a perfect fit, no?

And the way I've been feeling/acting/ranting lately, I think Billy Joel's "Angry Young Man" would work just fine ... I'll be sure not to do too many throw jumps in this number!

[LoopLoop]

How about "Don't Stand So Close To Me" by the Police?

[skaternum]

Seeing as how we've been known to get our feet tangled up, I like the Police song. Hee hee!

I've decided "Head Like A Hole" by Nine Inch Nails may also be appropriate for frustrating days, especially if you think about some of the lyrics. Snippets below ...

Head like a hole... I'd rather die than give you control.
Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve.

(For when you're feeling particularly peeved that he blew that pairs spin again. ) :)

[NoVa Sk8r]

Well, then loops and I definitely (after attempting throw salchows) need to adopt "Clumsy" by Our Lady Peace:

Maybe you should sleep
Maybe you just need a friend
As clumsy as you've been
Tthere's no one laughing
You will be safe in here

Throw away this very old shoelace
That tripped you again
Ttry and shrug it off
It's only skin now
You need to understand
There's nothing fake about this
You need to let me in
I'm watching you

We haven't progressed to pairs spins (just sbs sit and variable scratch spins), but if we ever do, I'm sure a bevy of new songs will be added!