Section breaks rule of Skate Canada at competition.

[singerskates]

"At the recent Skate Canada COS Adult Spring Skate in Thornhill, Ontario in which I competed, a rule by the organizers was broken making the competition unfair. according to the Skate Canada Adult Rules, "All age categories may be divided or combined depending on the number of registrations and at the discretion of the referee and/or the Competition Committee. Men's and ladies' events (i.e. singles free skate, solo dance, interpretive) may not be combined. Proof of age is required for all events. Copy of birth certificate, passport, drivers license or similar proof of age is considered acceptable, but the Competition Committee reserves the right to require additional documentation.", from the Skate Canada site at the URL http://skatecanada.ca/english/info/figure/index_adult.html entitled Adult Competition Technical Information for 2002-2003.

Here is the proof in the results that this rule was broken.
http://www.skatecanada-centralontario.com/Irma/2003%20Fun%20Adult/default.htm The above rule was broken in the prepreliminary ladies freeskate http://www.skatecanada-centralontario.com/Irma/2003%20Fun%20Adult/CAT006RS.HTM , the preliminary ladies freeskate http://www.skatecanada-centralontario.com/Irma/2003%20Fun%20Adult/CAT010RS.HTM and finally in what was originally adult ladies bronze interpretive and after the fact after I and Chandra paid and registered changed to adult bronze interpretive
http://www.skatecanada-centralontario.com/Irma/2003%20Fun%20Adult/CAT008RS.HTM All these so called ladies events at registration time without our agreement changed after registration to include men in our events.

All those who received silver in their event and were beaten out by the opposite gender skater should receive Gold while the opposite gender skater should keep their Gold. Those who received bronze should receive silver. Those who won the Gold in the mixed illegal events should be able to keep their Gold medals. It wasn't their fault that the rules were broken."

In your oppinion what would you do about the rule being broken?

[CanAmSk8ter]

I don't know, mainly because I've never heard of an event guaranteeing that men and women wouldn't compete against each other in interp. Freestyle, yes. I don't think I've seen it done, although I've seen lots of kids' showcase events where there's only one or two boys and they're mixed in with the girls. Honestly, if the numbers are small enough, I don't see any real reason to separate men and women in interp. Maybe Lee or someone else more familiar with Canadian rules can help you out more.

I should mention, I've also never heard of medals being exchanged after an event in a non-qualifying open event before. But I imagine there hasn't been occasion to do so often.

[arena_gal]

File a complaint with the chief accountant for the section. Your coach should have filed a protest at the time that the skating orders were posted.

[singerskates]

My coach wasn't with me at the competition this past weekend and I only found out about this rule after coming home late yesterday. I wrote a letter to Skate Canada. If nothing changes, nothing changes. I tried.

Brigitte

[vesperholly]

My question is, why really are you so upset? Mens & ladies events are combined frequently in club competitions in the US and no one bats an eyelash. I have competed in Canada only a handful of times and can't recall competing against boys, so I can't comment on if it is a regular practice or not.

Are you upset because you are offended by competing against a man, because you feel you were cheated out of a gold medal, or... what? What exactly is the point of serving this "justice" - a man feels poorly and unwelcome in skating because they were put into an event by the referee, and the women who would have been first now get their gold medal? I cannot think of a good motive for this, and the ones I can think of are in poor competitive spirit and make you look greedy.

All this fuss over a simple rule "broken" at a relatively minor non-qualifying club competition seems to me more like sour grapes. I personally would do nothing. This is a petty "injustice" at best.

Jocelyn

[becca]

I also competed at that competition. I thought I read on the announcement that genders could be combined but I might have been wrong on that. I have competed at other competitions where girls and boys are combined but it always says on the announcement ahead of time that they may do so. I have also been at a competition where medals have been exchanged when rules were broken (a club comp. one year). Anyway, in order for a complaint to be considered it has to be given to the tech rep. (in this case Reagan Fawcett) withing 24 hours of the completion of the event (so nothing is likely to happen at this point). Personally, I don't really understand the problem, there are so few adult competitions anyway that the guys should get a chance to compete (not just skate an exibition) at the ones that do exist. Their skating should be pretty comparable to that ladies at that level anyways. The only problem I had with the Thornhill competition was that since they were running really far behind they decided to combine warm-ups. They tried to put one jr bronze event and both sr bronze events on the same warm-up which would have been 10 of us. Skate Canada rules state that you can only have 6 people on a warm-up or 8 with permission of the referee and tech rep. Luckily I coght this problem a good half hour befor my warm-up so my coach was able to go find the tech rep and get it straightened out. The event referee had also noticed and gone up there. Overall I thought that they problem was well handled and we all go a safe and fair warm-up.

[becca]

I just checked and you are right, it says right in the announcement that men and ladies will not be combined in the same event. Still, you would have had to make the complaint in writing to Reagan right away.

[arena_gal]

A topic for discussion in a meeting this year was the number of times that mens events were getting cancelled in non-qualifying events because there was only a single entry. (A single entry in a qualifying event gets to skate an "exhibition".) There was strong approval from persons in the meeting that given a choice, the boys should skate in with the girls at the same level than to have to skate up or cancel the event entirely.

[Canskater]

For what it's worth, I think we should simply be grateful that there is any adult competitive skating in Canada -- period. The number of entries at the Thornhill competition were quite small so, for example, in the interperative event Brigitte was referring to, without the male entry, there would only have been two participants. Having said that, I know the guy who won the gold in that event .... we used to belong to the same club .... and he has some rather formidable skills!!!

Looking on the brighter side ... perhaps the numbers will be better next year. I hope to compete Jr. Bronze there next year ... if I can get a decent competitive program together.

-- sheilagh

[lizzz]

Personally I'm just happy that competitions are including adult events.
I dont' care who I compete against. I'm more worried about doing my program and doing the skills that are difficult for me. When I do a good job for myself I get a huge feeling of accomplishment. When I skate poorly and basically screw up, I get disgusted with myself and sure as heck do not want a medal for a bad skate.
At my club competition next month we have just one open adult event.. All levels, all genders! It's a start, and one that I am happy about.

Liz

[becca]

I agree with everyone that a mixed event is better than no event. Also, in this case every person in every mixed event got a medel (there were never more than 3 all together) so it really shouldn't have been an issue. (By mixed i mean included both genders).

[blue111moon]

If you objected that strongly to skating in a mixed-gender event, maybe you have withdrawn before the event took place and explained to the competition chair and event referee why you were withdrawing and that you expected a refund because the event you entered was not taking place accordning to their announcement.

[Lee]

The comp that lizz was in in Calgary a week ago ended up with mixed events -- and the man in the two medal presentations I saw won Gold (FS and Interp). It certainly didn't seem to bother the women very much. If it means the difference between running an event and not running it, most people would vote for combining the genders.

I agree with bluemoon -- if the idea of competing against males was so offensive to you, you should have withdrawn.

[batikat]

I'm UK based and in most of the UK adult competitions I've been to all the classes have been mixed - split by age and standard but not by gender. This even includes solo dance competitions where the mens and ladies steps are different - and all the ladies will tell you that the mens steps are easier!!! The men usually do very well but I don't recall anyone ever suggesting they should have their own competitions - in most cases it would mean that they never got a competition because there are so few of them - few enough kids let alone adult males. I think the adult nationals held last year did have mens freestyle categories but they had only 1 or 2 entries and the Free Dance section was definitely mixed - 1 man , 1 lady, entered at a high level and I think the lady won.
It does make it all the more satisfying if you do beat a man!!!
And if you are beaten to the gold by a man you still have the satisfaction of knowing you are the best lady.

[Madame Saccoche]

I Might have a problem with combined gender categories in maybe solo dance...especially if the solo dance was Ravensburger!! It certainly wouldn't bother me in adult events, especially interpretive, since physical power and strength aren't the only factor in who wins.

I'd rather be in a larger category with guys in it, Getting a gold medal for doing a demo or coming first out of two people is not that interesting to me.

[singerskates]

Just going to sit back after my initial email about the rule and see what happens. If nothing happens, so what. There's always next year to compete and rectify things. I've got a ways to go to beat the guys.

[roogu]

Yeah but you also forgot to mention that there were other events, not jsut the two you competed in, where guys were grouped with the girls and the girls WON. It's not uncommon to group together, especially when there's only one male entrant at FUN competitions such as Thornhill Spring Skate.

COS also offers area fun skates at the beginning of each season at the test stream level where if there's not enough entries to warrant an event, they'll group them together. Infact, in the Northeast one this year, two girls and two guys were grouped in the Open Freeskate where the two girls came first and second.

Take the recent National StarSkate Championships for example. There was a full field in the silver and gold ladies triathlon events, but only 1 guy int he silver men and 2 guys in the gold mens triathlon. Ask any one of the 3 guys and they would have told you right away that they'd skate with the girls if they could ...... and all 3 of them would have been no where near the medals if they competed in their respective levels, in the girls events.

Adult skating in Canada is just taking off so for the next couple of years, there are going to be low entries in events. If you feel cheated from the overall experience, perhaps maybe in a few years when the numbers of competitors grow larger would be a better time for you to participate in the competitions to get the sense of accomplishment you so desire.

[Elsy2]

I watched an adult combined event at a local competition awhile back. Only two entries, one pre-bronze lady, and one silver man....While we expected the guy to win, that was not to be, as the lady interpretation of her music was very good and entertaining. She placed first and was thrilled.

[Azlynn]

Well, personally, I find it wrong just because they broke the rules. Quite clearly. I wouldn't mind skating against men, but it's against the rules for me to do so. Aren't they supposed to allow a sole entry to skate and get critique from the judge? Perhaps they should consider rescinding that part of the rules until numbers gain over the next few years.

[Mrs Redboots]

Originally posted by batikat
The men usually do very well but I don't recall anyone ever suggesting they should have their own competitions - in most cases it would mean that they never got a competition because there are so few of them - few enough kids let alone adult males. My mother, watching her first skating competition, had commented that compulsory dances were like dressage classes at the Pony Club - she could see who was better than who, but didn't know why. Then the results were announced, and a certain man came 3rd. "Oh," said my mother, "It's exactly like the Pony Club - they always put the man 3rd if they can, to encourage others to compete!"

[singerskates]

cough, cough.......Pony Club?

[Mrs Redboots]

The Pony Club (http://www.pony-club.org.uk/)