Help needed - Turnout

[db]

My lack of turnout is keeping me from feeling comfortable on those FI Mohawks that are so necessary. I could probably do them toe to toe but that doesn't seem to be a recognized turn :roll:

Can anyone please give me some off ice exercises to improve turnout? I was able to do FO Mohawks on roller skates eons ago, so I know this is something I should be able to work up to, but I'm too afraid and stiff to make enough progress on ice alone.

[Elsy2]

I love mohawks, but don't have good turnout. I guess I'm not understanding why you need good turnout for them....when I do them my heel of freefoot is to my instep of skating foot, which is 45 degrees. I'm just thinking most people can achieve that angle without terribly good turnout.

[db]

[b:2cb6c6ff15]Elsy2[/b:2cb6c6ff15] Do you mean 90 degrees? 45 degrees would put your new foot still facing very much forward, unless the angle you are measuring is between the heel of your skating foot and the little toe of your free foot. That, BTW, is impossible for me. I think 90 degrees is the minimum, and I have difficulty with that. Can you put your feet toe to toe on a straight line, knees facing each other? I can. It is the exact opposite of turnout.

[backspin]

It should help to put the mohawk on a very deep entrance edge. The deeper the edge, the less turnout required.

[Anita18]

Agreed. I have barely any "functional" turnout (my spread eagle is completely nonexistent - I want to learn it so badly though! Arghghhg!) but I love my mohawks; I pick up so much speed with them! :D

The trick is to [i:7a07b44b8e]use [/i:7a07b44b8e]the edges and be sure your exit foot ends up on the same circle your entrance foot begins on. You push from one inside edge to the other - 180 degree turnout is not required by any means. I'm probably using 90 degrees on mine, sort of like a T-stop.

I see a lot of beginners trying to do a straight edged mohawk with an 180 degree turnout. If they succeed at that, there's no speed resulting from it. I mean, a straight edged mohawk is great, but if you want to get some speed out of it, do it the curvy way. :wink: I actually want to learn a straight edged one, cause I have serious issues with checking turns. There's another skater at my rink who has fabulous control with her edges and footwork, but she's studied figures and she says it takes A LOT of practice to get it right. I don't think I have that kind of patience, LOL, but I [i:7a07b44b8e]love [/i:7a07b44b8e]her edges! Sigh, another thing on my to-do list....

Okay, enough rambling....in trying to improve my turnout, I lie on my stomach with the insides of my thighs facing the floor. Then I try to press my butt down to the floor while pushing my feet together. It's really hard, but go easy on it - don't strain anything while you're doing it. This exercise improves turnout from the hips, which is what you want. Turnout from the knees will only damage your knees. :wink:

[Schmeck]

And there's a version of Anita's exercise that you can do at the rink - an 80 yr old skating buddy of mine showed me! Facing the boards, you line your skates/feet up flat against the boards, toes pointing away. You'll need to bend your knees a lot at first, or at least I did, anyways. Slowly press your hips into the boards. As Anita said, don't try to get the turnout from your knees (keep them really bent if you have to), do it from the hips. I've gotten a bit more hip turnout from this exercise, but you have to take it slowly.

Schmeck

[Elsy2]

LOL! Well I guess I'm challenged in the geometry department! I suppose I meant 90 degrees.....yep, half of 180 would be 90!

[garyc254]

Yes, Anita's exercise is excellent for strectching the hips/groin area, even though you look like a frog on the floor. :lol: I used to do this when I was taking karate classes.

You can actually get into this position in front of the television and watch while you stretch. You don't have to press hard as the angle and gravity will do most of the work. It also doesn't put strain on the knees which is a godsend.

[kar5162]

You really don't need much turn out to do mohawks. Bend your knees and remember to actually push from one foot to the other for a smooth transition. I have very little turn out and mohawks are fine for me, even the outside ones on the Juvenile moves test. 3 turns are another story - I hate them.

Anita's exercise does improve turnout, but is also quite hard on the hips and lower back, so be very careful if you feel any pain or stress there. It always makes my lower back sore and if you are looking up (as if to watch tv) can make your neck really sore. You can also sit upright with your legs bent and feet together and just let gravity slowly pull your knees down. Relaxing will help. This way takes longer, but I think it's less stressful the body.

Kim

[Mariposa]

All of these exercises will help with turn out, but they can be damaging to the knees. I have seen people stretching out at rinks so intent on getting "turned out" that they injure themselves before even getting on the ice. So if you want to do these exercises remember to go slow. Or better yet, sign up for Pilates or Yoga and ask the instructor the proper way to get yourself in and out of these stretches.

[garyc254]

My girlfriend had a problem with her turnout on mohawks, too. Her coach figured out that she wasn't starting off with her skating foot on the circle, but trying to do it from a straight line. She added more arc to her skating foot and the 90-degree angle was more than sufficient.

[Mrs Redboots]

[i:c3549fe842]Don't[/i:c3549fe842] make the mistake of thinking that Mohawks are 180 degree turns. Obviously, that is what happens, but it is the edges that carry you round - you only want to turn about 90 degrees, if that. Your forward inside edge should be bringing you round on part of the semi-circle, and the BI edge on the other - allow the ice to do part of the work, and don't force it, otherwise you'll find you've actually turned about 270 degrees, which is not what's wanted!

[flippet]

Annabel makes a good point, as does Elsy. You don't NEED fantastic turnout to do a good mohawk. It's true, with wide turnout, you can just throw a mohawk out there, but that doesn't make it a *good* mohawk. All you really need is to be able to put the feet in the T position, 90 degrees. At that point, the key is to use the edges (they're designed to curve you around), swivel the hips, and check properly with the upper body.

Because I have decent turnout, I can just toss a right mohawk out without thinking about it---but the left ones aren't so easy. To get those correctly, I have to break it right down to the swivel and the check. Turnout doesn't allow me to cheat there. :P Have your coach work with you on the swivel and check, and don't worry about the turnout so much, because it's really not all it's cracked up to be.

[Mariposa]

Well said, flippet!!

[db]

Thanks to all for your suggestions and espcially the exercise, which I tried gently at the rink today. I actually already knew all the facts surrounding Mohawks, such as good turnout not required, good edges necessary, rotation etc. I asked for help with turnout because everything else is already either in place or progressing nicely. I really believe I could win a gold if there were a competition for turnIN, and that does make Mohawks and some other moves more difficult to master.

[garyc254]

I've found that this sports medicine website:

http://www.preceptor.com/CrsSports/

has been a big help in learning proper stretching exercises.

[db]

Thanks Gary! I just went there after seeing it on the favorite sites thread you started.

[garyc254]

Hi Dinah,

Giving you this website is what got me thinking about the "favorites" question. :o

I've seen some very interesting links there.

Bye luv for now, :wink:
Gary

[CanadianSkater]

It is possible to turn backwards by going from an outside edge to an outside edge when changing feet, but this is chocktaw, as is much more difficult.

[db]

[quote:4cad468faf="CanadianSkater"]It is possible to turn backwards by going from an outside edge to an outside edge when changing feet, but this is chocktaw, as is much more difficult.[/quote:4cad468faf]

Nope. A Choctaw is a two footed turn from one edge to the other edge. What you described is just an outside forward Mohawk. It is more difficult than the IF Mohawk, especially for those of us lacking turnout.

I've pretty much decided that the major Mohawk problem in lack of turnout is lack of courage. That is, without turnout the free foot is at a 90' angle to the skating foot (at best), and therefore one [b:4cad468faf]must[/b:4cad468faf] place that foot correctly and rotate the hips at the right time or fall. With turnout, the free foot is, with ease, at an angle greater than 90', which means it is pretty much already heading in a backwards direction and the likelyhood of a splat is much lower.