need advice from skaters working on 2axel or higher

[sk8ing is lyfe]

what techniques do you use????

i just think it would be interesting to see what the majority thinks about...

thanks

[love2sk8]

For dbl axel and triples, I had a coach show me this process, and she was amazing....her technique was this 5-step routine, where every position was assigned a step, and when your free-leg lifts to get into back spin position, this is called 1st of 4...cuz she broke the steps down into two parts for this particular step. 2nd of 4 is when the leg is brought down, and your weight is over your skating side.

This technique works so well, because you know exactly which step you are doing wrong, and it's much easier to understand and correct it...I know it sounds really weird and complicated to ppl who are reading this, but it works...

What do you think? Does anyone have a technique which is similar?

[dbny]

Just curious, if there are 5 steps, then why is there a 1st of 4 and a 2nd of 4?

[love2sk8]

Because that step is so complex, that it needs to be broken down into 2 parts. Its in the fourth step, so theres the 1st part (1st part of 4th step) and the 2nd part (2nd part of 4th step)...I know, its confusing...but it works for me!

[GoldSeals]

Hi,
Try practicing the backspin.Once you master the backspin, the jump will get easier.So will the Sal .
There is another one thats like your step technique.As soon as you swing your freeleg forward, push it back down towards the ice and then turn around backwards.Ideally you should feel like your trying to hit something hanging from the ceiling with your head:lol:
Regards,GoldSeals:)

[Skatingsarah]

I think the most important thing is not to hold back! If you tense up and second guess yourself you are more likely to be hurt in the process. Also lots and lots of making sure the preparation is right. If you dont have preparation you dont have anything

[dbny]

Originally posted by love2sk8
Because that step is so complex, that it needs to be broken down into 2 parts. Its in the fourth step, so theres the 1st part (1st part of 4th step) and the 2nd part (2nd part of 4th step)...I know, its confusing...but it works for me!

:oops: I reread your post and saw it. It's actually not confusing if one doesn't skip entire phrases.

[tidesong]

about the five step thing... does it start on the preparation to the jump? Do you mean.
1) BO edge
2) Step to jumping leg
3) Jump
4 i) Lift leg
4 ii) Weight on spinning side
5 )land
??

:) Just coz I'm curious

[love2sk8]

Yup, thats the right idea!:)

[sk8ing is lyfe]

1) BO edge
2) Step to jumping leg
3) Jump
4 i) Lift leg
4 ii) Weight on spinning side
5 )land


almost... my coach uses this same process and it works really well... b/c it is the same for all jumps...

using sal (outside threeturn) as an eg.:
instead of 3 being "jump" it is actually the back inside edge where you are in right check.

ist of 4 is the "jump" part where you are getting the height of the jump, using your knee in lazy T ( your knee makes a T out from your hip) (sounds wierd i know, but it does work)

second of 4 is the quick snap into the rotating position....

a way to simulate the 4s is to do a back or forward spin in a 1st of 4 position (lazy T) then to jump up and do 1st of 4, then second, and land spinning. then at the end of the spin is 5, the exit , which simulates the quick reflexes of the landing... this is called a jump catch...
if you can do doubles this way, then you should be ready for "the process triples" lol...

Have fun, and i hope this clarifys things

[rinkrat24/7]

Originally posted by Skatingsarah
I think the most important thing is not to hold back! If you tense up and second guess yourself you are more likely to be hurt in the process. Also lots and lots of making sure the preparation is right. If you dont have preparation you dont have anything

yeah i totally agree. for 2axl and all triples if you tense up or doubt yourself the slightest bit then you're in for a very hard (n hurtful) fall.

another exercise my coach had me do in preparing for 2axl n triples was doing a backspin and then jumping into a 2loop. it really gives oyu the feel of the higher rotation.

i aslo used a step process of resemblence to the to the others.

[sk8ing is lyfe]

a trick i use for 3toe is to step wide... i know this sounds wrong, but it works for me. everytime i do this, it gets my balance right on top of my skating leg, as well as increases the flow and speed going into the jump...

i havent missed one yet when i do this properly...

i am having some problems with my sals right now, what do people use as hints for the sal??? i am open to anything (o and flips too)

thanks

[Dustin]

For 2 axel - make sure your edge doesn't hook. Also, on the entrance relax your shoulders and arms. Keep them relaxed until the leg and arms reach up and it is time to pull in - then pull in as fast as possible to a backspin position.

3toe - some say step wide, some say step shallow. I do inbetween. After the 3-turn, hold and bend before you pick. This really helped me
once you pick jump with a small (some coaches want a big axel-like) kickthrough of the free leg and reach up with the arms and then like the axel, snap in tight.

[BABYSKATES]

My daughter is extremely close to landing her double axel. I'm told this stage can last years! She reached this stage very fast, however, so I am hopeful for her sake we can cross this plateau quickly.

What she is doing is going up, getting pretty good rotation, either fully rotating or being a quarter turn short, then she either pops open and lands like a dead bug 8O or she collapses to the ice in a spinning ball. Any idea on exercizes to encouage her to land it on her feet? She has great coaches but when I ask her what they are saying, she tells me that they are shouting "Land It!" I could have told her that! :roll:

[sk8ing is lyfe]

haha... i have been there before...

ok ... for axel, exercises which i do to land it is...

1. do a forward spin... (lazy T (read up)) then jump into 1st of 4 and then 2nd of 4 and land spinning in 5... (the process from above)
ask if you get confused...

2. to avoid multiple tough falls, i used to just do single axel and then land in a back spin... then i would move on to double and try to land in a back spin... even if u fall, still get up and do the back spin so that u know what it feels like... (i can now do triple this way!!!!!!!!)

if i cxan think of anymore, i will post them... hope this helps

[BABYSKATES]

Thank you sk8ng is lyfe. I think I have figured out what you mean. Now I just have to try to translate it to my 9 year old. ;)

Every lesson the jump gets closer and closer. Her coaches are very excited about her progress. My child is manic about it. I'm having to say, "No more double axels today!" over and over. She feels like she's got to have it or die! Oh, well, I guess that is why she is where she is as young as she is. She wants it soooo badly!

[texasdancer]

To any parent trying to help their child by giving technical advice:

When I was a freestyler, my mom was always trying to "help" me get the next jump. Please don't do this to your child. Your child has a coach, let them do their job! Just be a mom/dad. That is the best help you can give. I know the parents mean well, but sometimes all the helping can make it feel to a child the parent wants it more than they do!

[Mrs Redboots]

You're quite right, of course, Texasdancer. But those parents who know what they are talking about can sometimes help by making sure they know what the problem is. If, for instance, the child isn't getting a jump because she simply isn't able for it yet, that's one thing - if, however, there's a bit of fear involved, then "If you land your [whatever] today I'll give you [eg]$10.00!" can have a seriously motivating effect! I know I got my child to swim a whole width with the offer of a pen that she wanted..... and I've offered another (unrelated) child a fiver to land her axel one day (adding to the inducement offered by coach and by mother).

The best place for parents, though, is either on the ice themselves, or somewhere else altogether - at the supermarket, say, or in the coffee shop!

[BABYSKATES]

Texasdancer, of course you are right in a lot of ways. I didn't end up trying to tell my daughter what I read after I gave it some thought. I couldn't put it into words that she would understand anyway and of course, I can't demonstrate. I'm sure the advice would help someone more mature but she's not ready for it. I appreciate how kind and giving the people on the board are with their advice. I guess this is one question I shouldn't have asked. Trust me when I tell you that there is no perception by me or anyone else that I want this more than my child. She got the reminder this morning that if this isn't fun and she doesn't really want it with all her heart, she is free to move on to something else. Parents can really take a bad rap for being supportive of their kid.

I always tell my child if I could solve her skating problems, we wouldn't need to pay coaches. It's just that she is driving me nuts with this particular jump. There is no way, however, that I can drop a 9 year old off at the rink and come back later. We're a few years away from being ready for that.

A lot depends on the personality of the child and the relationship with their parent. There are things that the coaches will tell me to remind my daughter of and I will do it. She started skating very young and I have always reminded her to do what her coaches are teaching her to do. This seems to work and there doesn't seem to be any resentment. My child is very open with her feelings and I encourage her to tell me how she feels. What would you do? I never want to take away from my child's enjoyment of the sport.

[texasdancer]

Babyskates,

You sound very heartfelt in wanting to help your daughter. I'm sure she does appreciate all your support. I personally did not suggest dropping children off at the rink and leaving. This is a good idea for some with older kids, when there are responsible adults around, but the child must be ready and pretty independent to handle that. My only comment was, parents should not try to give technical advice. I actually always enjoyed my mother watching me from the stands. I did not however like her to remind me what I was doing wrong while skating, or to try to help me figure out the next skill. I found this put added pressure on me.
She didn't realize that, of course, she really just thought she was helping. She wasn't. That is my experience. That is all I am basing my comment on.

[BABYSKATES]

The older I get, the more crotchety I sound! :oops:

I truly do thank you all for your ongoing willingness to share advice and thoughts. Especially you, Texasdancer, because although there are books that can tell you the steps to virtually anything, my child did not come with a manual and I need to hear how she might be feeling so that I do not ruin skating for her. Thank you for reminding me that this is hers to work out, not mine. Moms always want to fix things for their kids.

We have been having attrocious skating days for about a week. Maybe it is just a couple of days but it feels like years! I made my daughter take a couple of mental health days off.

My daughter asked me this morning before school if she was going to get to skate this afternoon. I told her yes but I wanted her to stop beating herself up. It's just a sport, no matter how much you love it.

I did give in to the impulse to give her just a little advice. I told her love skating or leave it. The last few days have been unbearable. I told her to change her approach to skating if she wants to continue. I told her to put enjoying skating at the top of her goal list and landing every jump perfectly at the bottom.

She told me "I'm going to change my attitude, Mom. I still love skating with all my heart and I'm not going to quit."

I am going to offer one more peice of advice this afternoon before she practices. I'm going to tell her to review the steps to all of her jumps and elements and to see herself going through each step and successfully completing each thing before she attempts to do it. I am going to tell her to go after that feeling of freedom she loves so much and not be held down by frustration.

I always say my top goals for my child's skating are for her to learn how to set goals and go after them. I want her to learn to push herself to achieve goals and to believe nothing is impossible if you work for it. I want her to believe in herself. I'm going to stick to advice that puts us closer to those goals.

[texasdancer]

YEAH Babyskates!!!

That sounds like excellent Mom advice. Your daughter is very fortunate.

[96.23??]

Originally posted by texasdancer
Babyskates,

You sound very heartfelt in wanting to help your daughter. I'm sure she does appreciate all your support. I personally did not suggest dropping children off at the rink and leaving. This is a good idea for some with older kids, when there are responsible adults around, but the child must be ready and pretty independent to handle that. My only comment was, parents should not try to give technical advice. I actually always enjoyed my mother watching me from the stands. I did not however like her to remind me what I was doing wrong while skating, or to try to help me figure out the next skill. I found this put added pressure on me.
She didn't realize that, of course, she really just thought she was helping. She wasn't. That is my experience. That is all I am basing my comment on.



im a skater and i hate it when my mom or dad watches me i feel i can skate better when i know they arent watching me i also dont think they just give tech. advice thats for my coach to give me and other skaters who can help me but i do not like people who dont know skating to tell me what to do or what im not doing its frustrating!

[fort_henry_roxs]

I completly agree.. the only time I like my parents watching is tests or competetions... (even then when they pull out the video camera..grrr :evil: ). And when people who know absolutly nothing about skating try to give me advice I find it sooo annoying, they just try to tell u what you should be doing, based on what they see on t.v.

[texasdancer]

I think almost every skater over the age of 10 would say the same thing. Unless the parent was a skater themselves, there is no way they should try to give advice on skating. Sit in the stands if your child likes you to, but keep quiet!

[inuk_shuk]

good call, texasdancer. it's definatly the most annoying thing when someone who doesn't know skating tries to talk skating.
i've been seeing a lot of mothers coaching their children lately and i can't even imagine that...but every skater's different, that might work for some ppl i guess.

[96.23??]

true i have seen some kids like it when their parents stand at the door and after evry element the kid does they go back to their parent for feedback, so i guess it depends on the kids.

[texasdancer]

These kids need to learn to think on their own. They are looking for the approval of someone(parent), who doesn't even know what they are talking about.

[96.23??]

amen to that its also distracting ur set up for a jump ready to take off and some kid will jsut skate by trying to get to their parents err its frustrating