Intermediate MIF and FS?

[Black Sheep]

Who here has taken these tests, and how hard were they to pass? I'm considering them as things to work on after AN, if both my coach and I think I'm ready to move up.... :?:

[manleywoman]

This may sound pessimistic or inflammatory, but here goes...

From my observations...I think it depends on where you take them. I've seen really horrible tests pass, and really wonderful tests not pass. Standards vary greatly from region to region, state to state. So I think it's hard to define "hard." When I passed my Intermediate MIF, I passed with two judges. A kid did the same MIF test immediately after me, blatantly and majorly messed up a pattern so it did not at all resemble the rulebook, and all three judges passed her. When I failed my Novice MIF, my coach told me I should have taken the test in the state from which she moved (purposely withheld!), because I would have passed there no problem.

I know that the judges in my club are extremely strict and expect the best edges and posture, but you drive a few hours north or south and the standards aren't as strict depending on which rink you go to in those areas. So it's difficult to say.

So I would say...take it when you feel secure and ready. Let your coach tell you when you're ready.

[Mazurka Girl]

I'd rather pass with the equivalent of an A than with the equivalent of a D myself, so I don't subscribe to the drive 3 hrs in another direction to find easier judges philosophy. I'd rather work on the skills until I can achieve high quality rather than seek out those who accept mediocrity.

Having said that, though, judges aren't perfect & some have preferences for certain quality & styles of skating. But they use the 3 judge panel to counteract that.

[manleywoman]

Mazurka Girl...I totally agree with you that anyone should try to pass at their best rather than drive somewhere easier just to get through it. It can only make you a better skater in the long run. I didn't mean to imply that people should drive around looking for the easiest test within a reasonable distance. I was more pointing out that there are discrepancies between one club's passing standard vs. another club's passing standard. And I don't know what the passing standard is where Black Sheep is, so it's hard to answer her question.

But there are those rare times when I've seen skaters have wonderful tests and for whatever reason they can't pass them, perhaps because judges saw them fail the test before and only remember the previous bad test. So there are some cases when I think driving out of state is acceptable. Depends on a lot of factors.

[KJD]

I'm going to agree with manleywoman here. We have VERY strict MIF test standards at our club, whereas you can often drive across town to test at the other club and its easier to pass. Sometimes I think we are too hard on certain skaters and not hard enough on others. 2 cases in point. 1) At the last test session we had a number of "non-competitive" skaters taking their pre-juv MIF tests. By non-competitive I mean they are teenagers, most of them, and had just passed their prelim. MIF two months before. These tests had a large number of major flaws, one even had two falls, and they all passed because as I understand it, we are wanting to "encourage" these skaters. On the previous test sesion, 3 of the 4 pre-juv MIF failed, almost all were better than the Jan session moves. But the december kids were young, competitive skaters, with axels and a number of double jumps. I was told that the standard had to be higher as they are "representing our club" competitively.
2) the second example is a recent discussion we all had on adult MIF. Mine are actually pretty decent (Gold ones) because I am almost ready to take my intermediate moves. But I failed twice now at our club because as I was told, they have to be at novice standard (the novice move in particular) irrespective of what the passing mark is.

So while I don't condone 'finding the easiest place' to take a test, you can bet I'm going across town in march to retake my Gold moves.

[manleywoman]

Yes, the adults have a hard decision with how to take these tests, because on the one hand, we're not getting any younger, so sometimes the test is as good as it's going to get.

In my case, I failed the Novice MIF a few times, and part of it was due to the spiral sequence. At my age, my leg only goes so high and straight! And the judges are not used to seeing adults do Novice MIF, so I get compared to the 12 year olds on the same test. My leg was well above the 90 degree mark (passing), but the 12 year olds made of cartilage get it higher! And I kept getting comments about that on my sheet. So while I had other moves that were stronger, I had a very hard time convincing the judges that they should pass that particular move.

And I have seen the types of things that KJD touched on: that certain kids get tested at a different standard than others if the judges happen to know in advance what direction those kids intend to take with their skating.

[vesperholly]

Originally posted by KJD
But the december kids were young, competitive skaters, with axels and a number of double jumps. I was told that the standard had to be higher as they are "representing our club" competitively.

Wow - in my area I see mostly the opposite of that! The kids who are competitive in freestyle are given the benefit of the doubt on Moves tests so they can move up a level. I'll name names - I've seen a lot of really embarassingly bad moves tests pass in Lake Placid. I know some coaches who take their students there annually and purposely only test there!

Getting back to your question, Intermediate MIF is a difficult test. I think Intermediate and Novice are the hardest moves tests in the entire track. They're really long (Int has 6 moves with three repeating and Novice has 6 moves with 4 repeating) and the standard is a big step up each time. Juvenile is fairly easy to pass. But at Intermediate, you will really start to fail for the QUALITY of your moves. Not only do you have to do them, you have to do them WELL. Plus, there is a wide variety of skills tested - edge quality in the brackets, power in the stroking moves, extension in the three-turns, difficult transitions in the slip-step sequence. Juvenile is mostly power and a bit of sloppiness is usually overlooked.

Power and control are the two biggest emphasized skill in Intermediate. If you cannot create power, you will not pass. If you cannot control the power you do create, you will not pass. This is a test where "shaky feet" will crucify you. Try to project confidence in your moves. Pay attention to extension, pattern placement, and the cadence of the moves - each move has a rhythm that, when done well, will show an understanding and mastery of the skill.

I passed my Intermediate Moves in Aug 2001 on my third try. My first time was kind of "put it out there and see how it goes," I didn't really expect to pass and it was a really weak test. The second time was a year later and I got one judge to pass me, but my brackets were scrapey and I put my foot down on the back power-3s pattern. The third time was two months after that when I finally passed, and I tested with an adult skater who had to reskate her back power skating (!) and still passed (!!). I am 22 but I started skating when I was younger so I'm not technically an "adult" skater.

You may need to work up to this test for quite a while, but don't be discouraged if you don't pass the first time. Make your goal to *understand* the moves as well as being able to execute them. I've been working on my Novice moves for about 9 months (didn't skate for almost a year after I passed Intermediate :( ) and I'm really taking my time with learning the moves fully before I test. Plus, they're friggin' hard!!!

Jocelyn

[dbny]

Originally posted by vesperholly
Juvenile is fairly easy to pass.

I couldn't disagree more. I know only one skater who passed Juv moves the first time and know many who failed it twice before passing. Juv is the last of the low levels and is used to winnow out anyone who doesn't have solid edges, power and control. But, as has been said already, judging does vary from club to club and region to region, so maybe Juv is comparatively easy to pass where you skate.

[vesperholly]

Originally posted by dbny
I couldn't disagree more. I know only one skater who passed Juv moves the first time and know many who failed it twice before passing. Juv is the last of the low levels and is used to winnow out anyone who doesn't have solid edges, power and control. But, as has been said already, judging does vary from club to club and region to region, so maybe Juv is comparatively easy to pass where you skate.

Maybe I've just seen one too many skaters taking Juvenile Moves AND FS in the last week of August and passing by the skin of their teeth. Judges know that Regionals is coming up. I personally think Juv needs one more move on it and Intermediate needs one less.

Jocelyn

[KJD]

I definitely agree that if you are trying to pass at the end of August, the judges can be more lenient. In our area, Juvenile moves is usually more difficult to pass than intermediate, but that depends on the skater. We appear to be what I would call a "power" focused club. If you've got great power, they may overlook a few other sloppy points and pass you. When I passed my Juvenile moves last July, there were 8 Juvenile moves that day, of which only 4 passed - all the passes had good power. There was one girl whose moves were beautiful, stunning I would have said, and she failed! Not enough power apparently.