"No Test" question

[gardana]

Hi I have some questions about "No Test" in Figure skating.

What moves/skills to people perform in No Test?
Are there any kinds of competitions for No Test performers?
How is No Test different than Pre-Preliminary? I'm guessing Pre-Prelimary is tougher skating test.
Is there an age cut off for No Test skating?

Thanks

[mikawendy]

I think it depends on the competition and which set of rules are being used (USFSA, etc.). The Basic Skills Competition at my rink has a no-test category that (I think) permits all single-rev jumps except NO axel (this can result in a wide range of competitors--some with only waltz jumps and some who have all the way to lutz). But if you are wondering for a specific event or competition, check with the rules for THAT competition, including whether they allow any of the jumps in combination.

[sk8er1964]

Originally posted by mikawendy
The Basic Skills Competition at my rink has a no-test category that (I think) permits all single-rev jumps except NO axel (this can result in a wide range of competitors--some with only waltz jumps and some who have all the way to lutz).

You know, I've often wondered about things like this. If you can do jumps through a lutz, then you should definately not be skating in a no test event - you should have tested! I don't think that it's fair, and it is probably downright disappointing, for people (especially kids) who have only waltz and half jumps to have to compete against somebody with a flip or lutz.

End of rant.

[Elsy2]

Some competitions will have two levels of beginner, Beginner I or low Beginner, and Beginner II or high Beginner. They will specify what jumps are allowed. For example, I have a competition form in front of me that allows:

Beginner I - 1 1/2 min. Only half revolution jumps allowed. Salchow and Toe loop permitted.

Beginner II - 1 1/2 min. All single jumps, no axels, no double jumps.

At a recent adult competition I attended, high Beginner did not allow loop jumps. This is an example of how each competition can have different rules and requirements.

[garyc254]

I actually heard about a mother that is keeping her daughter from testing so that she can win more "medals". :evil: :frus:

I think that there are some people in this world that need to be horse whipped. :twisted:

[sk8er1964]

I've heard stuff like that too, Gary and I agree with you.

[CanAmSk8ter]

Originally posted by sk8er1964
You know, I've often wondered about things like this. If you can do jumps through a lutz, then you should definately not be skating in a no test event - you should have tested! I don't think that it's fair, and it is probably downright disappointing, for people (especially kids) who have only waltz and half jumps to have to compete against somebody with a flip or lutz.

End of rant.

Absolutely- except that more and more Pre-Pre events these days are allowing axels. Most competitions still offer Pre-Pre A (no axel) and Pre-Pre B (axel but no doubles), but I'm seeing more and more that don't. I really think the USFSA has got to start setting nationwide limits on what can be done in what level, at least through Pre-Juvenile or so. It varies from one part of the country to the next, too. I feel so bad for skaters who move from one area to another and find that in their new region (by region I don't mean USFSA region, I mean geographic region) they aren't competitive at their level at all. I'm in a fairly competitive region and I've seen it happen.

[tazsk8s]

Originally posted by CanAmSk8ter
don't. I really think the USFSA has got to start setting nationwide limits on what can be done in what level, at least through Pre-Juvenile or so.

I believe the USFSA did set jump limits a couple of years ago. Off the top of my head, PrePre allows up to an axel, Preliminary allows the axel plus up to two different doubles which may be repeated, or in sequence or combination, Pre-Juv allows up to four different doubles, Juv allows any doubles but no triples, and anything goes above that. It is my personal opinion that all of these jump limits should be shifted "up" a level, ie, axel at Preliminary, two doubles at Pre-Juv, etc. To have kids doing axels at PrePre when the hardest jumps on the test are a single toeloop and salchow is silly. JMO. Maybe it would cut down on the injuries we are seeing at the higher levels if they had to wait til Intermediate to put the 2axel in their programs, and Novice to even attempt triples. Or who knows. Maybe not.

For what it's worth, we ran into the same thing with the no-test levels where they were allowing (and doing) everything up to lutzes and camel spins when Taz Jr. was competing at that level. Eventually she worked her way to that point as well (and started skating Pre-pre shortly thereafter), but it was really hard when she was just starting out at the no-test levels and always placing last because the other kids could do so much more than she could.

[KJD]

I really think that the No Test issue is because different regions vary so much in what they offer for skaters with no axel. We just went through this last year. My daughter is 7 and in our area (Dallas) there is limited pre-pre which is essentially no test and then there is regular pre-pre, followed by prelim and so on. This past year at our competitions we did limited pre-pre and waited to test even though she was ready because she had no axel and had just turned 7 and was really young compared to some of the others. While that may sound wrong to some, let me just tell you what was going on here at these levels. Limited pre-pre had all of the single jumps including lutz in combination (lutz loop loop, and flip toe and loop were the most common) as well as beginning layback attempts and a couple of flying camels. Regular pre-pre had all of the above plus two axels, one in combination. My daughter didn't have an axel at that point so pre-pre would have been not much fun for her.

My 5 year old is in the "waltz jump, sal, toe-loop and half flip/lutz category right now and we have no option but to stay in basic skills because we don't have any true "beginner" category.

[tazsk8s]

Originally posted by KJD
I really think that the No Test issue is because different regions vary so much in what they offer for skaters with no axel.

Good point, I meant to mention that as well. Here the no-test levels can and do vary from one club competition to the next, with regards to what elements are allowed at each level, how long the music could be, etc. Used to drive us batty. Most frequently we see something like Beginner I which is 1/2 jumps and upright spins, and Beginner II, which is everything below the axel. Usually no jump combinations or spins and no flying spins are allowed at Beginner II. Pre-pre is frequently divided into I and II, with the axel not allowed at I but allowed at II.