What to expect - levels at Adult Competitions

[vesperholly]

I'm trying to plan my Bronze program for Sectionals, and I'm not sure how difficult I should make it. I have through lutz-loop and a camel-sit-back sit combination spin.

I was wondering what is typically seen in terms of jumps and spins for adult competitions, and in young adult as well. TIA!

Jocelyn

[Hannahclear]

I'm skating at that level and division too, though not to qualify for anything. I'm wondering too, someone help!

[LoopLoop]

Jocelyn,
What you have is pretty much what you'll see at the top of bronze I. Well, actually, the top bronze skaters will have the lutz in combination, but the spins are usually a lot weaker than the jumps across the board. Camel-sit-backsit is typically seen in a lot of silver programs; if bronze skaters have a combo spin at all it's usually either camel-sit or sit-backsit.

The content of bronze programs doesn't vary much, so what really stands out is the basic skating and stroking. Strong skating between elements with good speed and flow (stay off those toepicks!) counts for a LOT, and so does good posture and extension.

[Hannahclear]

thanks for the good news! no way I'm getting a camel sit in two months, but I can probably pull of a sit/ back sit. My coach said the same thing about the inbetweens. The more interesting your program is, with turns and footwork, the higher up you will be.

[skaternum]

At the last AN I was in (2000), I made it to the final round of Bronze I. This is what was in my program:

camel
backspin
scratch

loop
lutz-toe
flip-toe-ballet jump
waltz-half loop-salchow (ooh, I hated that one)

FO spiral
straightline footwork
in betweens of lots of threes & mohawks in different directions, with reasonably good speed

In terms of tricks, it wasn't the toughest program in my qualifying group by a long shot, but I tried to cover the ice and present well. In Bronze, you're better off doing something easier but doing it well than you are doing something tougher that *looks* like it's tough.

Good luck!

[Hannahclear]

Do you mean 3 turns and mohawks in a sequence, or just having them interspersed in the program here and there, along with a sequence?

[Yazmeen]

Are there adult competitions with a pre-Bronze or Beginner category? I'm not ready quite yet for USFSA competition, but, I'm curious--it seems most everything starts at Bronze. I know of one in Buffalo coming up that has an Adult Beginner category. What's a typical "lower than Bronze" program like?

Thanks,

Beth

[vesperholly]

Thanks, this is helpful. I don't think I'm going to put the lutz in my program, it's good but not as consistent as I'd like. I'll probably do flip-loop, loop from 3-turns, and a few more, and camel-sit-back sit, layback, and one other spin. It'd be nice to do a competition without "worry" jumps like axels in my program. I have passed Pre-Silver dances and Intermediate moves, so I think I probably have good power and flow. :-) I'm a stronger spinner, too.

Hannahclear, which Sectional are you in? I'm going to Easterns in Young Adult Bronze and Silver Solo Dance.

Jocelyn

[vesperholly]

Originally posted by Yazmeen
Are there adult competitions with a pre-Bronze or Beginner category? I'm not ready quite yet for USFSA competition, but, I'm curious--it seems most everything starts at Bronze. I know of one in Buffalo coming up that has an Adult Beginner category. What's a typical "lower than Bronze" program like?

Beth, Eastern Sectionals has Pre-Bronze in Non-Qualifying. From what Bronze sounds like, my guess is that you see flip/loop attempts and sit and back spins.

Jocelyn

[blue111moon]

The Worcester (MA) Open has freestyle for both Adult Beginner and Adult Pre Bronze. If I remember last year, the Beginners had up to a loop, but the majority were doing half jumps, toe loops and salchows only.

[sk8er1964]

Yazmeen - there are Pre-Bronze events in USFSA competitions, just not in Sectionals/Nationals. I've seen No-Test for kids, but not adults.

I would think that you would have to pass the Pre-Bronze moves in the field and the Pre-Bronze freestyle before you could compete, unless maybe the competition allowed you to skate up like they do on other freestyle levels. You'd have to join the USFSA too.

I don't know what the Pre-Bronze MIF has in it because I was grandfathered and didn't have to take it. The Pre-Bronze Freestyle had crossovers, a two-foot spin, a one-foot spin (?), a waltz jump and one other jump of your choice, I think. Maybe someone else who has taken it recently can help????

[sk8pics]

Beth--There are some competitions that have pre-bronze levels, and I think the New Year's Invitational in Virginia at the end of the month is one of them. Even if there's no pre-bronze category, at many competitions you can skate up to Bronze once you've passed pre-bronze. Skate Wilmington, for example, has a bronze event and I'll probably skate in it next summer. Not that I expect to finish anywhere but last, though!

For my pre-bronze freeskating test last summer, I did a waltz jump and a half flip, although I've seen other people do a salchow or a flip as their second jump. I also did a spiral instead of a lunge. The other required elements are forward and backward crossovers, a two-foot spin and a one-foot spin. I think pre-bronze moves includes figure 8's of forward and backward crossovers, basic consecutive edges (forward and backward), and alternating forward 3-turns (outside and inside).

My little pre-bronze type program has a waltz jump, a half flip and a toe loop, two spins, a RFO spiral and various 3-turns and swoopy edges (forward and backward). My coach is now talking about putting in a falling leaf (I learned it a couple of weeks ago) and I figure the waltz jump will become a waltz-toe loop combination (also learned a few weeks ago) and we'll add the salchow somewhere.

Pat

[dbny]

Originally posted by sk8pics
I think pre-bronze moves includes figure 8's of forward and backward crossovers, basic consecutive edges (forward and backward), and alternating forward 3-turns (outside and inside).

Yes, plus forward stroking in both directions with crossovers on the ends, the same as in pre-pre.

[Elsy2]

I competed several times in pre-bronze before taking my pre-bronze FS test. That was considered skating up a level, and is allowed for many local competitions. Those of you considering competing at pre-bronze....go for it! I often placed pretty well even with some whonky spins, and a loop for my toughest jump.

Vesperholly, I would be feeling very confident with a bronze program that had lutz/loop and camel/sit/sit. In fact, I'd be feeling pretty confident with a Silver program with those combos...I personally think you should put the lutz in. All too often I've seen great spins overlooked in favor of jump content, and in class I or any bronze group with younger skaters, the lutz can make a difference. I'm thinking about class I Bronze at AN last year....where one of the best spinners did not make the final, probably due to lack of the lutz.

Having said that...I don't have a lutz and went ahead and tested bronze anyway. I think we are going to see many competitors in my situation where I felt pressed to test knowing that I would not be competitive at that level. I saw many skaters who passed Silver at a recent local comp., who probably would have stayed Bronze another year...I also saw Bronze programs that were solidly Pre-bronze technically (no flip or lutz or two footed ones, and shaky spins of two revs....)

[skaternum]

Originally posted by Elsy2
I think we are going to see many competitors in my situation where I felt pressed to test knowing that I would not be competitive at that level. I saw many skaters who passed Silver at a recent local comp., who probably would have stayed Bronze another year...

Yeah, that's me too. I know I'm not going to win any medals anytime soon in Silver, but I didn't want to spend the time learning MITF. (Standard disclaimer: I already work on Moves. I'm working on Pre-Juv. But since the Silver MITF include Moves all the way tup to Intermediate. No thanks. Not ready.) In fact, I'm nowhere close to being "competitive" at the Silver level. My spins totally suck.

Hmm. Maybe if everyone else did the same thing, we'll all be "non-competitive" at Silver and actually wind up being "competitive!" Hmmmm...

[skaternum]

Originally posted by Hannahclear
Do you mean 3 turns and mohawks in a sequence, or just having them interspersed in the program here and there, along with a sequence?

I meant interpersed here and there, PLUS a separate thing that was clearly (I hope) identifiable as a footwork sequence. The interspersed stuff were things like waltz-threes into a jump setup. Or a mohawk-crossover thing instead of just stroking forward to the next trick.

I also include my arms and upper body in the choreography of a program. That makes a difference too.

[Hannahclear]

yeah, I hope it's clear that its a footwork sequence too :lol:

Thanks for your response, my coach is an ice dancer, so I got lots of little turns here and there. I need to work on doing them in both directions, right now I've only got a couple in the direction that I dont' favor (clockwise). How important is that?

[dani]

Yazmeen, I skated pre-bronze FS at the Peach. I won the event based on jumps, I had a loop, two footed flip, a slow flip-loop-loop and a salchow. I also had 2 scratch spins and a change foot that I fell out of. If I had more spins, I might have tried to talk my way into bronze. (I had not taken any test yet)

The person that came in second had a loop and a camel and I think a sit. She fell out of her camel. My coach has my tape so I can't remember for sure.

I am trying to work on a camel-sit-back scratch combo for my new bronze program, but I don't know what I will do for the New Year's Invitational and Heart of Florida open comps because I am not quite ready.

Vesper - can you land an axel? That is cool! I just tried one off-ice and was less than a quarter turn cheated ;-) Of course my office has hollow floors and I startled my neighbors ;-)

Hugs and good luck!
Danielle

[skaternum]

Hannahclear, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I think you're overemphasizing the "competitiveness" of your program. I know everyone competes for different reasons, and maybe it's just my current mindset, but (IMO) you really should just put together the most well-rounded program you can do reasonably well and just go compete. Besides, you never know what any given level will be like until you get there. It changes from year to year, and with all the "Beat the Moves" testing this summer and people skating up, you just never know. I wouldn't obsess over whether your program is competitive and whether you need to put more mohawks in one direction. Your first adult sectionals or nationals is where you sorta go figure all that stuff out! Pun intended. ;)

I don't think you're wacky obsessed or anything, I'm just trying to say that I wouldn't worry so much about it. Your coach knows what a well-rounded program should like like and also what you're capable of. Put it together and just skate it. You'll be fine!

[skaternum]

Originally posted by dani
Yazmeen, I skated pre-bronze FS at the Peach. I won the event based on jumps, I had a loop, two footed flip, a slow flip-loop-loop and a salchow. I also had 2 scratch spins and a change foot that I fell out of. If I had more spins, I might have tried to talk my way into bronze. (I had not taken any test yet)

Sandbagger! :lol:

(For those that don't know us, this is a JOKE!)

[Hannahclear]

:lol: No actually I don't really care about winning, I just don't want to come in last :lol:.

Sorry to bother you with so many questions......it's my first competition in over 5 years, I just got my program yesterday, so I've been thinking about it alot.

[skaternum]

Originally posted by Hannahclear
:lol: No actually I don't really care about winning, I just don't want to come in last :lol:.

Sorry to bother you with so many questions......it's my first competition in over 5 years, I just got my program yesterday, so I've been thinking about it alot.

Too funny! Hey, somebody's got to come in last, right? I figure it may as well be me sometimes.

Don't mind answering the questions at all. Competitions are fun, especially the adult only ones. You're going to have a blast!

[Mel1977]

Hi! I'm new to these boards and I just have to say it is awesome to see all these adult skaters. I'm new to the adult "ranks" I just tuned 25. I'll be at Nationals, Bronze I freeskate and Interpretive I. It's nice to see that my program is pretty much in line with everyone else who has posted. I've been waiting for this for so long...I'm so tired of competing against 14 year olds (or younger)!

[Elsy2]

Welcome Mell977...you're going to have a wonderful time!

[MissIndigo]

Mel, welcome to our family! You'll love it here!

Originally posted by Elsy2
All too often I've seen great spins overlooked in favor of jump content, and in class I or any bronze group with younger skaters, the lutz can make a difference. I'm thinking about class I Bronze at AN last year....where one of the best spinners did not make the final, probably due to lack of the lutz.


Gee, what a shame. That's a bit disheartening, for I feel I may be in the same situation come AN 2004. I have dead-on centered spins and spin combos, a solid camel, decent and improving sit, layback (!), and attitude. I am optimistic that I can have a lutz by itself, but in combo, I don't know. But it's something to work for...still, I believe in being stylish and creative with what you do well any day over being overly ambitious.

[Elsy2]

Yes, it was a shame, and I admit a bit of bias as this was someone I knew....But this was AN after all, and the total package was necessary in a large field of very competent skaters. I think the solo lutz would be fine, but it wouldn't take much to add a toe after if you feel you need the combo. I for one am very respectful of good spins!

[CanAmSk8ter]

Jocelyn, is Adult Sections including solo dance this year for those of us under 25? The year I looked into going they only had freestyle for the young adults.

[vesperholly]

Originally posted by dani
Vesper - can you land an axel? That is cool! I just tried one off-ice and was less than a quarter turn cheated ;-) Of course my office has hollow floors and I startled my neighbors ;-)

Yes, I can land an axel but it is none too consistent. I am also landing double toe, sal and loop, but usually only one of those and about twice a session. :-) I have to compete Bronze because of my test level, I actually rather compete Silver since that level's competitive elements seems closer to my skills.

Jocelyn

[vesperholly]

Originally posted by CanAmSk8ter
Jocelyn, is Adult Sections including solo dance this year for those of us under 25? The year I looked into going they only had freestyle for the young adults.

I doubt they'll even have enough skaters to divide for age, let alone young adult. Although Syracuse does have a good dance community. :-) It is a non-qualifying even so I would think it's okay. On the announcement, couples dance specifies over 25, but solo dance does not.

Jocelyn

[Mel1977]

Who here is doing interpretive? I have a dramatic program that I really am looking forward to doing, but does it compare to an entertainment program? I wish they'd have two separtate categories, but oh well. I'm mainly focusing on freeskate.

[MissIndigo]

I'm not competing this year, but I downloaded the forms out of curiosity. I do believe they had somwhere you could indicate if your routine was character/comedic or dramatic/artistic, and would assign you to a group based upon that indication.

[sk8er1964]

Welcome Mel 1977 - I see you made it over here :).

See you at AN!

[flo]

Mel,
I'm doing an artistic interpretive, it will be my 7th at AN. At nationals, they do try to divide the groups by type of program, which is asked on the application. Whatever your program is (dramatic,artistic,comedy,animal) just be sure there's real skating in it, and not just a costume show, and you'll do fine.