Biellmann ouchie

[icestalker]

I did search for this, btw. But didn't find any answers.

So I had my skate on yesterday with hard guards on, and was practicing pulling the blade up with my hand into a Biellmann position (first time I've tried this with the skate on.) Anyway I had my hand positioned right, and began to pull up, and OWWWW. The back of the blade dug into my hand. I had to let go, otherwise would have probably cut my thumb off. Same thing happened with a glove on, and even wrapping cloth around the blade, still really hurt my hand.

Am I doing something wrong, or is this a common occurrence?

And what are stretches to increase upper back flexibility? My lower back can bend to nearly 90 degrees (perhaps 100-110 degrees right now) when I'm standing with knees locked, but I have no upper back/shoulder flexibility. I have tried bridges, I do not have the arm strength to push myself up in one. Sad. I know.
I also need more flexibility.. not my back, but somewhere around my butt or the back of my thigh.. some muscle there needs to be more flexible.
I can do a mini-split, with my thighs being in a perfect split, and my full split with legs straight is only a few inches off the ground, and when pulling my leg up in a Kerrigan spiral, I am quite close to being flexible enough for a split spiral. But my Biellmann is a very squarish shape, with my foot around shoulder level (without skates on.) My quadriceps are also very flexible, when doing this stretch
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/107/315009314_07946a7075_o.jpg
I can pull the heel of my foot all the way back to touch my butt and only feeling a slight stretch in my quads. So I can't find the muscle that needs to be more flexible. It's hiding.

And a third question- can a Biellmann spin be done from any entrance other than a layback? Can you just bend down and pick up your foot, and not have to go through the layback-haircutter thing?

[fsk8r]

The upper back is naturally not very flexible. The rib cage prevents that. The majority of the back's flexibility is in the lower back.

[techskater]

I did search for this, btw. But didn't find any answers.

So I had my skate on yesterday with hard guards on, and was practicing pulling the blade up with my hand into a Biellmann position (first time I've tried this with the skate on.) Anyway I had my hand positioned right, and began to pull up, and OWWWW. The back of the blade dug into my hand. I had to let go, otherwise would have probably cut my thumb off. Same thing happened with a glove on, and even wrapping cloth around the blade, still really hurt my hand.

Am I doing something wrong, or is this a common occurrence?

And what are stretches to increase upper back flexibility? My lower back can bend to nearly 90 degrees (perhaps 100-110 degrees right now) when I'm standing with knees locked, but I have no upper back/shoulder flexibility. I have tried bridges, I do not have the arm strength to push myself up in one. Sad. I know.
I also need more flexibility.. not my back, but somewhere around my butt or the back of my thigh.. some muscle there needs to be more flexible.
I can do a mini-split, with my thighs being in a perfect split, and my full split with legs straight is only a few inches off the ground, and when pulling my leg up in a Kerrigan spiral, I am quite close to being flexible enough for a split spiral. But my Biellmann is a very squarish shape, with my foot around shoulder level (without skates on.) My quadriceps are also very flexible, when doing this stretch
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/107/315009314_07946a7075_o.jpg
I can pull the heel of my foot all the way back to touch my butt and only feeling a slight stretch in my quads. So I can't find the muscle that needs to be more flexible. It's hiding.

And a third question- can a Biellmann spin be done from any entrance other than a layback? Can you just bend down and pick up your foot, and not have to go through the layback-haircutter thing?

You should be grabbing on the un sharpened side of the blade around the heel stanchion. It should start with your hamstring and quad coming to your hand and not vice versa (hand going to your skate and pulling). It should be a little bit of pull at a time for a couple seconds at a time to avoid tearing/damage to muscles that don't typically move in that direction. This is also about lower back STRENGTH and flexibility. There is no upper back flexibility.

You adductors need to be flexible and turn out well in order to do a really nice bielman without eventually causing hip problems along with loose hamstring muscles (which is where my problem lies - mine are very tight, so the bottom of the hamstring (where it starts to connect to the knee) hurts when I start to pull once I find it). I'll be going back to these after my moves test (don't want to damage anything I might need for that).

Denise Bielman used to start this spin from a camel/donut position. Not quite sure how you would do it from an upright spin as that is typically done with the free leg in front. If you are still struggling with a sit, back spin and camel, sorry to say, you are a ways off from Bielman spins.

Typically kids start with this as a spiral position and then it becomes a spin position.

[Sessy]

How did you grab? The fingers go on the inside of the blade (between boot and blade), palm facing outward. Not palm facing inward, that'll lock your shoulder and get you a cut on your fingers since you'll be on the sharp side of the blade.

Even then, it takes some tough skin to grow - for me at least.

[icestalker]

The upper back is naturally not very flexible. The rib cage prevents that. The majority of the back's flexibility is in the lower back.

Ah.

You should be grabbing on the un sharpened side of the blade around the heel stanchion. It should start with your hamstring and quad coming to your hand and not vice versa (hand going to your skate and pulling). It should be a little bit of pull at a time for a couple seconds at a time to avoid tearing/damage to muscles that don't typically move in that direction. This is also about lower back STRENGTH and flexibility. There is no upper back flexibility.

You adductors need to be flexible and turn out well in order to do a really nice bielman without eventually causing hip problems along with loose hamstring muscles
..
If you are still struggling with a sit, back spin and camel, sorry to say, you are a ways off from Bielman spins.

Typically kids start with this as a spiral position and then it becomes a spin position.
How did you grab? The fingers go on the inside of the blade (between boot and blade), palm facing outward. Not palm facing inward, that'll lock your shoulder and get you a cut on your fingers since you'll be on the sharp side of the blade.

Even then, it takes some tough skin to grow - for me at least.

That's where I am grabbing- the non-skating part, around the stanchion, palm outward. So maybe I need to bring my leg up more by itself and pull more gently. Or just grow tough skin. Or both.

Adductors are what is stretched when you sit in butterfly position and stretch your knees flat to the floor, right? I can do that pretty easily.

I was afraid of that- sit and camel are quite hopeless right now!

[kayskate]

Don't know how valid this idea may be. When I am doing the splits, I try to keep my torso very straight upright. The tendency is to lean forward to take stress off lower back. What position is your torso in when doing the splits? Ideally, for max flexibility, your torso should be upright w arms over the head or extended to the sides. To increase lower back flex, maybe you can lean back while doing the splits. Might be a good idea to have a spotter. You might also be able to do a standing split w a band to hold your leg up. Such a band is marketed for skaters. Can't recall the name. When I did Beillmann spirals as a kid, I held my ankle. Still use this technique for off-ice flex. I don't do Beillmanns on ice anymore.

Kay

[GoSveta]

Band is called the MaxiFlex.

You have to do lots of stretches to develop the flexibility to do decent bielmanns (although some people are naturally bendy and could probably do great ones if they can center/hold them).

Your back is something you simply don't want to tweak or injure.

Work with a coach trainer for stretching. There are a few good positions between a layback and a Biellman, so those can be used as a middle ground to develop the flexibility and balance for spinning in that "folded" position (one example being Slutskaya's layback where the puts the blade to her head with both hands on it).

[Isk8NYC]

Put a layer or two of clear packing tape on the blade to cover the grab spot you're using. Make sure it doesn't interfere with edges. It's transparent, so only you will be able to see it, but it will provide a smooth, safe grab spot on the blade.

Make sure you're completely warmed up before doing stretches, especially with the Maxiflex or similar tool. You don't want to hurt yourself. Hold each stretch for 30-40 seconds, longer if you can. Repeat several times on each side - many beginners stretch once on each side and think they're done or they only stretch one position/foot/leg/etc.

When my student do off-ice with me, I've found that the first attempt at a spiral stretch is okay, but the fourth or fifth one is much, much better. Once is not enough.

[RachelSk8er]

I've noticed that one of my competitors wears little gel sleeves over the two fingers she grabs her blade with on her haircutter spin when she competes. They're like little bunga pads for your fingers, I've seen them in the first aid section @ CVS (or any drug store), and they're nude so you never see them from the stands.

You shouldn't need anything to protect your hand if you're grabbing in the right place, but I'm sure we've all stabbed/cut ourselves once or twice on accident when learning. Usually just wearing normal gloves in practice is enough.

I'm working on a catch foot on my camel spin right now and have def stabbed myself in the hand because I can't see where my blade is, it's a very different feel than when I do it just in a spiral. Ouch.

[icestalker]

Ideally, for max flexibility, your torso should be upright w arms over the head or extended to the sides. To increase lower back flex, maybe you can lean back while doing the splits.
What I do, actually, is take two chairs, and hold myself up on them with my elbows while doing splits, because I can't get all the way to the floor yet, and by supporting myself from a height, I can keep my back leg straight, and push down a bit more. So I've always had a straight back doing splits, though I can try the leaning back.

Make sure you're completely warmed up before doing stretches, especially with the Maxiflex or similar tool. You don't want to hurt yourself. Hold each stretch for 30-40 seconds, longer if you can. Repeat several times on each side - many beginners stretch once on each side and think they're done or they only stretch one position/foot/leg/etc.
Yup! Since stretching is not my favorite thing to do, I usually stretch while watching an hour long TV program. I warm up before the program, then sit down on the floor and keep one eye on the clock (to count seconds) and the other on the TV. I usually stretch each side until I get a little further down than I did last week (though, for some reason, I simply cannot make my right hamstring as flexible as my left one, no matter how much extra stretching I do on it. I hate being unbalanced.)
One of my greater fears is injuring myself to the point to where I wouldn't be able to skate for more than two weeks, so I am always diligent about stretching/strength training safety, and trying not to fall on my wrists/tailbone etc. while on-ice.

You shouldn't need anything to protect your hand if you're grabbing in the right place, but I'm sure we've all stabbed/cut ourselves once or twice on accident when learning. Usually just wearing normal gloves in practice is enough.
I'll try to find either packing tape or something to put on my fingers somewhere in this house. Perhaps band-aids would work.
Today I was trying things with a skating friend and was doing a Biellmann holding onto the boards, and it didn't hurt my hand, which was strange since I'm pretty sure I wasn't doing anything different from when I did it at home. I'll figure it out eventually.

[sk8tmum]

Quite a number of the skaters at our rink are using Grippers successfully to cut down on the cuts and scrapes on the hands. They are glue on clear plastic pieces that give you a less sharp surface to grip. Don't know where in the US you can get them, however, in Canada - here's a link to one place that they can be ordered. I've seen other references to them in threads here, perhaps US based people can search the threads.

http://www.skatingboutique.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_59&products_id=2948