I passed, Divas at the rink, and a sprained wrist (rant kinda)

[davincisoprano1]

Today I got to my LTS class (I've been taking them for review since I've just gotten back to skating in the last year after quitting at 15 (now 22). I arrived to find out today was testing day, I had no idea. The instructor had me test Adult 4, and I passed! Yay! Now I need to figure out how to afford private lessons...

Now onto divas at the rink/sprained wrist. I was skating last week at a public session (it wasn't too crowded) and I went into power 3's since there was NO one on the side I was skating. Well I tripped, fell, bruised both my knees and apparently sprained my wrist (didn't notice that til about 3 days later when I couldn't rest my hand on my hip). I ordered knee pads and they are in the mail, so hopefully those get here soon. Anysnooch, this morning's public skate was my first time back to the ice in a week, and I was shaky as could be. Plus I'm skating with my sprained wrist. I decided to take it easy today just so I could get rid of any fear to get back on the ice. There was a small amount of people but enough that no one should be practicing jumps. The little girl, probably about 8-9 years old, spent the entire time I was there doing her jumps and spins like a madwoman, and then went on to practice her program in the middle of the session! I stopped to say hi to an older man that I see there a lot and she came by skating within inches of me, she was close enough I could have tripped her. She did this twice. When she finally got off the ice and I realized it, I moved myself to the center of the ice so I could practice my waltz-8 a little, and on the second run through of it she skates to the center, makes eye contact, and does a spin right in the pattern I was doing! So I had to stop quickly and get out of HER way! :roll: Sometimes, I hate children.

Anyone ever have problems with these ice divas? I feel like she was intentionally trying to get me off the ice. I wasn't even in her way most of the time, she would go out of her way to get too close. :frus:

[icestalker]

Anyone ever have problems with these ice divas? I feel like she was intentionally trying to get me off the ice. I wasn't even in her way most of the time, she would go out of her way to get too close. :frus:

It was a public, correct? So she definitely didn't have right of way over you, since nobody in public has ROW unless they're in a lesson. Right when she cut a spin into your pattern, that is when to keep skating the pattern and yell "EXCUSE ME." Would probably shock her into staying away.

[dbny]

Right when she cut a spin into your pattern, that is when to keep skating the pattern and yell "EXCUSE ME." Would probably shock her into staying away.

ITA. I also probably would have stopped her after she cut so close to me and pointed out that it was dangerous and asked her to please keep some distance between us.

[Schmeck]

I've noticed that there's a huge difference between what's too close for a beginner skater and a more accomplished one. The little girl, who sounds like she was a practiced skater, probably used to freestyle ice, might have felt like she gave you plenty of room. My 19 yr old daughter (who skated synchro for many years) would probably have gotten even closer to you, and felt like she gave you plenty of space, while she was doing her senior MITF patterns or PreBronze ice dances.

Also, stopping on the ice is usually a big no-no where I skate, not allowed on public ice time. Says so right on a big sign at the rink. We are also supposed to do all spins (except in programs) in the center circle.

You should check with your rink policy about jumps and spins being allowed on public skate. Just be aware that you might be limiting your own progress by making an issue out of others' skating. If the rink puts out a no jump/spin policy, or even a more restrictive one, then you'll be shooting yourself in the foot, so to speak.

[AgnesNitt]

Back when I was learning crossovers, my coach told me to go to the center of the rink and practice during publics. Often a girl would speed up to get right in front of me and do a spin. I used to be polite and give way. Then I got fed up with the spin diva's and the hockey boys cutting me off. I'd use my 'command voice' and yell, "In a pattern,here!" with all my 30 years in the military authority and middle aged antagonism. Only had to do it a couple of times before it stopped.

I'm not sure how well this would work for you. With ice hogs, my experience has been yell loud and mean it.

With and 8 to 9 year old, hmm, yell at them you could get sued, except if you have one word in the sentence: "Unsafe! Watch it kid!"

[davincisoprano1]

Yeah, I don't really want to raise a fit about it at the rink, because in two weeks when school starts up again, those sessions are going to be empty, like maybe 3 people on the ice at any given time, and it's the only time I'll have a chance to skate really, so I don't want to say something that would limit practice when I'm there and school is in session. I just wish they were a little more diligent about it when it's a danger to others, especially the itty bitties that don't know to stay away from someone spinning rather than go towards the person.

Schmeck, I've been skating for quite a while, I wouldn't call myself advanced, but I wouldn't call myself beginner. I don't care so much that she got close to me, I had room to move over away from her, but it's the fact that she did that in a public session and probably did it to more people than just myself, and probably did it to people who can't get out of the way or don't know to just keep doing what they're doing and not try to guess where the person is going. It's a collision and lawsuit waiting to happen. In freestyles, whatever, but I think there should be some sort of space allowance in public where they shouldn't try to get so close to inexperienced skaters.

The problem with my rink is it is owned by two people that don't skate and don't understand skating, so they don't really seem to see much of a problem in general. Stuff like that has been brought to their attention but they say they can't do anything about it. They've hired people there who can't skate, so one day at a public session of about 150 kids (I swear there is no cap limit at this place, and they don't go over any kind of rules with these kids), this poor girl was left to guard on her own and there was no one else working who skated that could help her. She's one of two that I've actually seen DO something about the crazyness of the kids, too. Only one other keeps them in line. The rest of the guards literally stand around and text or they skate around and chat with people, they don't enforce rules.

I was there one day when it wasn't horribly crowded in the least but there were itty bitties (about 6-7 years old) that kept skating into the center ring where one girl was trying to practice. I finally went up to the guard and said "can't you try to please keep them out of the center" and he said "i've told them, they don't listen." :giveup: He didn't even make an effort that day at all. I finally went up to the kids and said "hey guys, you need to keep skating around the cones because she's trying to skate and she doesn't want to accidentally hurt you." They said "ok!:):halo:" and went on their way. THAT WAS ALL IT TOOK.

[doubletoe]

Unfortunately, most 8-9 year olds just don't have the awareness of other skaters' patterns yet (a reality of which I often find myself reminded. . .):roll:

[icedancer2]

Unfortunately, most 8-9 year olds just don't have the awareness of other skaters' patterns yet (a reality of which I often find myself reminded. . .):roll:

What doubletoe said. You can try to re-direct them but in most cases it is pointless, unfortunately. I try to just be very grateful for empty publics once they are all back in school.

[Sessy]

You should get yourself a pair of wrist guards too. Most toy stores will have them in the rollerblading/skeelers section for about $10 and they work just fine. I don't always wear mine, but I tend to wear them a lot when practicing something new. They really are a saver for me.

[davincisoprano1]

You should get yourself a pair of wrist guards too. Most toy stores will have them in the rollerblading/skeelers section for about $10 and they work just fine. I don't always wear mine, but I tend to wear them a lot when practicing something new. They really are a saver for me.

that's definitely not a bad idea. What I'm wearing now on my sprained wrist is a wrist guard from dick's sporting goods. I may get one more and just wear these when I do skate.

And I'm happy to say that MY KNEEPADS CAME IN! :D Hoorah!

[Schmeck]

Schmeck, I've been skating for quite a while, I wouldn't call myself advanced, but I wouldn't call myself beginner. I don't care so much that she got close to me, I had room to move over away from her, but it's the fact that she did that in a public session and probably did it to more people than just myself, and probably did it to people who can't get out of the way or don't know to just keep doing what they're doing and not try to guess where the person is going. It's a collision and lawsuit waiting to happen. In freestyles, whatever, but I think there should be some sort of space allowance in public where they shouldn't try to get so close to inexperienced skaters.



If you are in the LTS program, then you are considered a beginner skater - compared to those doing MITF full ice patterns, and working on double jumps. A more experienced skater wouldn't be as easily spooked by someone coming 'close enough so I could trip her', as on a freestyle session, at least in my area, skaters come much closer - within 2-3 inches of each other, especially when skating MITF patterns. You just flatten yourself up against the board until the skater passes. Also, if you have stopped on the ice, the moving skater has the right of way - you are not allowed to block a spot on the ice just so you can chat.

More experienced skaters also have the ability to change direction quite quickly, thus having the confidence to skate with more speed and with more power. My daughter actually jumped over 3 other skaters who had tripped and fallen in front of her during synchro practice. Otherwise, she would have either fallen on top of them, and/or cut them with her skate blades.

Sounds like your rink needs a written policy - would that be something you'd be intersted in getting involved in?

BTW - most rinks have signs posted at the paying area that you take full responsibility for any injuries, and waive the right to sue the rink if an accident occurs. So, if someone did get hurt, it wouldn't be the rink's liability. Some rinks have you sign a waiver before allowing you to go out on the ice.

[drskater]

BTW - most rinks have signs posted at the paying area that you take full responsibility for any injuries, and waive the right to sue the rink if an accident occurs. So, if someone did get hurt, it wouldn't be the rink's liability. Some rinks have you sign a waiver before allowing you to go out on the ice.

Oh I love this! In reality these waivers, admonitions, and such the like are present simply to scare off potential lawsuits. Someone can still sue no matter what she or he signed or read, especially if there's negligence involved. Everytime the public sessions get scary I half pray that something bad would happen, just to frighten the laissez-faire rink manager.

[sk8lady]

Oh I love this! In reality these waivers, admonitions, and such the like are present simply to scare off potential lawsuits. Someone can still sue no matter what she or he signed or read, especially if there's negligence involved. Everytime the public sessions get scary I half pray that something bad would happen, just to frighten the laissez-faire rink manager.

Exactly--most states have some allowance for "assumption of the risk," meaning that you assume certain levels of risk for activities that are known to have inherent dangers. However, negligence is never a risk that is assumed. If the rink hires someone to enforce their safety standards and the person is incompetent and/or doesn't enforce the rules, that's virtually prima facie evidence of negligence. The right to a reasonable standard of care is never waived, and if you are forced to sign a waiver giving up that right, it is probably unenforceable. You're also unlikely to get sued for yelling at a kid behaving in a dangerous fashion, although their crazed parent might come up and shout at you.

And Schmeck, if this is a program that follows the Basic Skills structure, Adult 4 is beyond true beginner level. The requirements go up through Bronze MITF, which includes half the moves from Pre-Juvenile. In any case, this is public skating, not a freestyle session, so what might be appropriate on a crowded freestyle session is inappropriate on a lightly attended public session.

[davincisoprano1]

if this is a program that follows the Basic Skills structure, Adult 4 is beyond true beginner level. The requirements go up through Bronze MITF, which includes half the moves from Pre-Juvenile. In any case, this is public skating, not a freestyle session, so what might be appropriate on a crowded freestyle session is inappropriate on a lightly attended public session.

Thanks, :) I've been skating for about 10 years, but I went back to relearn the basics since I never tested when I was younger and then took a few years off. I needed a class to get my basics solid and regain my confidence. I realized today I skate fairly close to people but it only happens when it's someone in public session who suddenly swerves into where I'm skating and I have to dodge them. I do my best to not do anything too crazy other than some edge work and stroking out there. I do publics right now more for cardio than practice since I can't do anything with camp kids there anyways. So slaloms, swizzles, stroking, fairly quickly without running into anyone is about where I leave it at. If no one is in the center I work on waltz-8, and edges (mainly back inside, which I got today without trouble!) because I can stop out of those quicker than I could coming out of a spin.

As far as a rink waiver, I have never seen anything about them not taking responsibility for accidents. I have seen a sign about them not being responsible for lost items and theft. But next time I go I'm going to see if they have anything like that posted. They have rink rules posted, but it's not where kids will see it when they get their skates. I think it used to be by rentals but now it's by the vending machines...

[Sessy]

Exactly--most states have some allowance for "assumption of the risk," meaning that you assume certain levels of risk for activities that are known to have inherent dangers. However, negligence is never a risk that is assumed.

Cool, same thing in the Netherlands here. In liability law as well as some criminal laws we have the "sports and games" exception. :)

[kayskate]

In my exp, summer publics can be a mess. To the OP, if you frequent this session, how often does this type of thing happen? Obviously it makes you uncomfortable whether the other skater is in control and can stop in time or thinks she gave you enough room or whatever. The pt is, you are uncomfortable. I assume you have skated in sessions that are better for you. If you go to this session during the school yr, you are probably happier w it b/c the kids are in school. I am assuming you are skating a daytime public. During the summer, you have to expect things to be different b/c the ppl who utilize the session are often not the same ones who come during the school yr. Myself, I do what I can during the summer on the ice and don't expect too much. I supplement my skating w other off-ice exercise and get serious about on-ice progress once the kids go back to school.

Good luck. I know it can be frustrating.

Kay

[Schmeck]

Oh I love this! In reality these waivers, admonitions, and such the like are present simply to scare off potential lawsuits. Someone can still sue no matter what she or he signed or read, especially if there's negligence involved. Everytime the public sessions get scary I half pray that something bad would happen, just to frighten the laissez-faire rink manager.

Of course someone can go through the expense of trying to sue, but it becomes the responsibility of the skater to prove that the rink was somehow at fault when a skater broke the rink rules. Signing that waiver acknowledges that you are aware that there are certain rules - so if you are injured because someone broke the rules, it's not the rink's fault. You have to go after the person who broke the rules to get compensated.

[kiwiskater]

You should get yourself a pair of wrist guards too. Most toy stores will have them in the rollerblading/skeelers section for about $10 and they work just fine. I don't always wear mine, but I tend to wear them a lot when practicing something new. They really are a saver for me.

I talked to someone at the rink yesterday & they warned me off them saying that if you fall just slightly wrong they are likely to cause more injuries.
I admit to being a bit puzzled at this - as a beginner I've fallen 3 consecutive weeks as we try out new skills requiring precision balance & I have strained my wrists, as I have a desk job for a day job I'm quite aware of not only the potential for long term injury but the immediate effect it would have on my ability to do my job!

[tazsk8s]

I talked to someone at the rink yesterday & they warned me off them saying that if you fall just slightly wrong they are likely to cause more injuries.
I admit to being a bit puzzled at this - as a beginner I've fallen 3 consecutive weeks as we try out new skills requiring precision balance & I have strained my wrists, as I have a desk job for a day job I'm quite aware of not only the potential for long term injury but the immediate effect it would have on my ability to do my job!

I did a bunch of research on wrist guards last year after breaking my wrist, yes, while skating. I ended up deciding on a pair of these:

http://www.snowboardsecrets.com/flexmeter_all_season_order_page.htm

They're a little unwieldly-looking because they have the plastic splint on the top AND bottom, but if you have a sweatshirt on over them, you won't even notice. And, yes they're expensive, but not nearly as expensive as the medical bills were. They do work, though. I've taken some pretty hard falls since coming back and barely even felt it. I'm about a year post-break and am just now working up the nerve to skate some without them.

[AgnesNitt]

I talked to someone at the rink yesterday & they warned me off them saying that if you fall just slightly wrong they are likely to cause more injuries.
I admit to being a bit puzzled at this - as a beginner I've fallen 3 consecutive weeks as we try out new skills requiring precision balance & I have strained my wrists, as I have a desk job for a day job I'm quite aware of not only the potential for long term injury but the immediate effect it would have on my ability to do my job!

If you're inline skating there is some slight possibility that wearing a wrist guard may increase the possibility that you will break your arm. This conclusion is based on a study using cadaver arms.

However, you are falling on ice which is a lot more forgiving than falling on pavement. The medical report mentioned above does not necessarily directly apply to ice skating. As far as 'if you land on them wrong' statement, ask your informant "what position? Only in jumps? going backward?" If your informant can't answer the questions then they're not a reliable informant.

It is more likely that you will break your wrist from falling in LTS than you will break your arm. Breaking an arm (barring some bone disease) takes a lot of effort--that means speed--you probably aren't doing that in LTS. However, breaking your wrist can occur at any speed--even the low speeds of LTS.

You are probably hurting your wrists because you don't know how to fall. Get the wrist guards. When you get some experience make your own decision about whether to keep them or not.

I wear them all the time and I fall with them on--even backwards--and I'm going moderately fast and I'm a big girl. My arms remain unbroken.

[kiwiskater]

You are probably hurting your wrists because you don't know how to fall. Get the wrist guards. When you get some experience make your own decision about whether to keep them or not.

I wear them all the time and I fall with them on--even backwards--and I'm going moderately fast and I'm a big girl. My arms remain unbroken.

LOL my problem is that I don't know I'm falling until I'm splat on the ice and it's usually backwards too!

You're probably right I'm not sure we've gone over how to fall other than doing deliberate little baby falls and showing we get up properly :D

Thanks for the advice guys, will be sure to take action on it :)

[kiwiskater]

OK so my words come back 2 haunt - I fell during my lesson this week (got too close to another skater by accident, clipped their blade & went down!).

now have a potential fractured scaphoid (wrist bone) - though they aren't 100% sure, so def no skating 4 a few weeks!

I'm meeting the head coach 2nite to discuss new skates so I think I'll discuss the whole thing with her 2nite (like why don' they teach how to fall in the first lessons...)

[Aaryana]

Congrats on passing Adult 4! I'm getting ready to test Adult Pre-Bronze. I hope I pass!

As for the divas, we have them at my rink too. But, it's not usually during the public session. It's during freestyle.

[davincisoprano1]

Congrats on passing Adult 4! I'm getting ready to test Adult Pre-Bronze. I hope I pass!

As for the divas, we have them at my rink too. But, it's not usually during the public session. It's during freestyle.

Thank you! Once I get with my coach and get some lessons going she said i can probably test pre bronze before the year is up! :D

Good luck with your pre bronze test!!!!! You're going to do just fine!

[Aaryana]

Thank you! Once I get with my coach and get some lessons going she said i can probably test pre bronze before the year is up! :D

Good luck with your pre bronze test!!!!! You're going to do just fine!

Thanks! I've never tried a test before, so I'm really nervous. I have a lot of trouble with the 3-turn pattern, but everything else is really solid. I am supposed to test it in November, but I may wait until spring. I also really need new skates, so I'd like to get them and break them in well before the test.

[davincisoprano1]

Thanks! I've never tried a test before, so I'm really nervous. I have a lot of trouble with the 3-turn pattern, but everything else is really solid. I am supposed to test it in November, but I may wait until spring. I also really need new skates, so I'd like to get them and break them in well before the test.

I'm in the same boat as well, never tested before... I have been skating on and off since I was 12, so about 10 years.... I wonder how I was able to slip by that lol.

[aussieskater]

OK so my words come back 2 haunt - I fell during my lesson this week (got too close to another skater by accident, clipped their blade & went down!).

now have a potential fractured scaphoid (wrist bone) - though they aren't 100% sure, so def no skating 4 a few weeks!

I'm meeting the head coach 2nite to discuss new skates so I think I'll discuss the whole thing with her 2nite (like why don' they teach how to fall in the first lessons...)

Oh no! (((kiwiskater))) Look after yourself and that wrist.

[Query]

like why don' they teach how to fall in the first lessons...)

Last I knew ISI LTS pre-alpha/alpha USFSA Snowplow Sam and Basic 1 syllabuses required falling instruction in the first lessons, and falling was part of the requirements to pass those levels.

But teaching and testing at those levels is within the coach's discretion. And I can't speak to other programs.

My personal approach to injury prevention has included a lot of fall practice (http://mgrunes.com/falling.html).

[Isk8NYC]

now have a potential fractured scaphoid (wrist bone) - though they aren't 100% sure, so def no skating 4 a few weeks!
I'm so sorry. Get well soon.

[tazsk8s]

now have a potential fractured scaphoid (wrist bone) - though they aren't 100% sure, so def no skating 4 a few weeks!



OUCH. Sorry to hear that - take care of yourself!

[singerskates]

In Canada we have CanSkate (this is our learn to skate). In level 1 (red) CanSkate and in PreCanSkate (learn to skate for those ages 2 and half to 5 in a more playful setting) the first thing we do is start the skaters off by having them sit on the ice and learn to get up. It is there where they fall the most. Then we teach them to fall from standing. Once we have them moving at least forward, we teach them to fall while moving. One thing that I think that could be added is how to fall while moving backwards.

Anyway, the best thing to do when falling is to pull in your arms to your chest and the get your chin to touch your chest and try to get your weight over one of your hips. If you land on your hips your slid a little and possibly be able to get back up quickly almost in one movement.

Look at some video of elite level skaters falling and slow down the video to see their falling and getting up technique.

[Isk8NYC]

Good suggestion - I'll have to pad up and try it. I worry about the "pull your arms in" though - wouldn't that increase the risk of breaking your elbows?

For backwards falls, I've learned that if you turn your head to the side, it lessens the whiplash and protects your head from hitting the ice as hard. Of course, helmets work better. ;)

I can't say I know of anyone who fell while wearing wristguards and was injured. I know plenty of people who've broken wrists and arms without them though.

I think the worst falls to take are belly-whoppers and head-bangers. The former knocks the wind out of you and makes you feel sick, the latter is a serious fall.

[icestalker]

I think the worst falls to take are belly-whoppers and head-bangers. The former knocks the wind out of you and makes you feel sick, the latter is a serious fall.
Falling on your belly out of a spiral, or even just tripping on forward crossovers, is something that should be taught. But how to teach that safely, is the question.. is there such a thing as belly flopping pads :)

How not to fall on your head.. BREAK AT THE WAIST! I have never fallen on my head.. just by folding in on myself when falling, so nothing more than my butt touches the ice. When I smack into the ice with such momentum that my back and shoulders are whipped back, I use core muscles to hold my head and neck rigidly up away from the ice. It's a good way to make your neck sore, but better than a concussion.

[kiwiskater]

Thx guys for all the well wishes. Was disappointed 2 stand on the sidelines & not b out practising last night BUT I did buy my skates:P, so no excuses not to 'get back on the horse' - can't let the investment go to waste!

I did find out an interesting titbit - there is a resident doc on the ice that looks after the hockey guys and the coach suggested I hunt him down & talk 2 him about what I can do to protect myself in getting back on the ice e.g. wrist guards.....

[slusher]

I teach silly falls. Once we've covered simple falls (sliding falls) and the kids are more comfortable with falling, we then try silly falls. We think of something stupid, like falling backwards and then we get on our knees and try the fall. Falling is easier the closer to the ice it is. We have some kids, and most adults, who are so stiff that they fall like a load of bricks.

[davincisoprano1]

I've been practicing my falling, and my 13 year old friend was teasing me about it (I'm 22). But it helps a lot to just make yourself fall a few times before you start anything on the ice... I warm up and then I go to the end of the ice with a little speed and lower myself until my feet give out under me. :)

I'm also trying to get a shoot the duck in the process. Currently it's a spear the duck.

[Isk8NYC]

...spear a duck... You should be in the UK - Mrs. Redboots has a lovely tutorial for the bunny hop that involves killing the wabbit...heh heh heh heh

How not to fall on your head.. BREAK AT THE WAIST! I have never fallen on my head.. just by folding in on myself when falling, so nothing more than my butt touches the ice. When I smack into the ice with such momentum that my back and shoulders are whipped back, I use core muscles to hold my head and neck rigidly up away from the ice. It's a good way to make your neck sore, but better than a concussion.If you're going down, just relax to let it happen, try to land on the fleshy parts and slide as much as possible. Tensing your muscles will make the fall worse. Tensing the core muscles and breaking at the waist aren't a panacea for backwards falls.

I've seen it happen and I've done it myself. Stepping on your own blade or rocking off the heel unexpectedly while moving backwards fast can result in this kind of a fall. Your butt won't hit the ice first, your back/ribcage will. Tensing up and bending forward will flip your legs over your head, putting you at risk of breaking your neck during the backroll.

You can't reposition in the air, but you can protect your head by turning it to the side, which is more effective than tensing up and causing muscle strains. This also shifts your shoulders, allowing you to slide sideways and protect your tailbone and hip.

[aussieskater]

I'm also trying to get a shoot the duck in the process. Currently it's a spear the duck.

LOL!! The visual - I get it!