Does Figure Skating Club refer to a Rink or a Group of Skaters,or both?

[FSWer]

Ok. I've always wondered what really is ment when we say Skaters belong to a Figure Skating Club. Does it refer to a club of Skaters? Or a Rink that is a Club? Or both?

[Isk8NYC]

A USFSA figure skating club is an organization that members can join to take tests, compete, take lessons and skate. Becoming a full member of the skating club also makes you a member of the USFSA.

Skating Clubs rent ice from ice rinks. A skating club might only deal with one ice rink, or the club might have several rinks that their members skate in regularly.

For example:
The Prospect Park Skating Club only skates at the Prospect Park rink in Brooklyn, NY. http://www.prospectparkfigureskatingclub.org/

The Skating Club of New York rents the ice for test sessions from Sky Rink, Newbridge Arena, Sport-O-Rama, The Rinx and the Central Park Wollman rinks. http://www.thescny.org/content.php?id=36
Some clubs also rent ice to run skating lessons, competitions, or freestyle sessions separate from the rink's skating sessions.


Most ISI (not USFSA) Clubs stick with a single rink because the rink itself is registered with the ISI. There are only a handful of separate skating clubs in the ISI.

[icedancer2]

That being said, there are a few skating clubs who own their own rink - the Detroit Skating Club is one of them.

[Query]

In the U.S., the answer is yes. They are one or the other, or both. Except the ones that are neither, like some of those that are run by outside organizations, like schools and colleges and hockey leagues, that may or may not run one or more rinks of their own.

I think most ISI skating clubs are at least partially administered by a rink.

At least as of a few years ago, USFSA clubs pretty much run themselves, but many rinks give or rent them an office, and I think USFSA clubs must declare a "home rink", though some clubs use many rinks. A rink isn't allowed to have more than one USFSA club, if that hasn't changed.

ISI, USFSA, USA Hockey, and some of the regional speed skating and curling organizations are also "clubs" in their own right, to which you can belong. To belong to a local club in ISI and USFSA, you also have to belong to the national club.

You can also join ISI or USFSA as an individual member, which I think is sort of like running a one person club. It's just about the only way for a skater to get a hold of some of their publications, but is probably more trouble than it is worth. I'm not sure why most individual members do it.

Does that sound complicated? I don't think there are any laws that say who can and cannot run a club, so there is no hard and fast rule.

But when most U.S. figure skaters say club they mean a rink-run ISI club, or a club-run USFSA club that mostly skates at one rink.

[FSWer]

In the U.S., the answer is yes. They are one or the other, or both. Except the ones that are neither, like some of those that are run by outside organizations, like schools and colleges and hockey leagues, that may or may not run one or more rinks of their own.

I think most ISI skating clubs are at least partially administered by a rink.

At least as of a few years ago, USFSA clubs pretty much run themselves, but many rinks give or rent them an office, and I think USFSA clubs must declare a "home rink", though some clubs use many rinks. A rink isn't allowed to have more than one USFSA club, if that hasn't changed.

ISI, USFSA, USA Hockey, and some of the regional speed skating and curling organizations are also "clubs" in their own right, to which you can belong. To belong to a local club in ISI and USFSA, you also have to belong to the national club.

You can also join ISI or USFSA as an individual member, which I think is sort of like running a one person club. It's just about the only way for a skater to get a hold of some of their publications, but is probably more trouble than it is worth. I'm not sure why most individual members do it.

Does that sound complicated? I don't think there are any laws that say who can and cannot run a club, so there is no hard and fast rule.

But when most U.S. figure skaters say club they mean a rink-run ISI club, or a club-run USFSA club that mostly skates at one rink.

In the US.? Is it different in other countries?

[Sessy]

In the US.? Is it different in other countries?

In the Netherlands, a skating club is an organization (with a board consisting of a few boardsmembers who take care of administration, finances, hiring of coaches, test session and competition organization, etc) which you join and pay a membership fee. In return, the skating club organizes lessons. To do this, they rent ice from an ice rink and they hire coaches. Most the skating clubs in cities where the rinks only function 6 months out of a year will try to rent ice at a different rink for their skaters in summer - at least, they will for their elite skaters, everyone else is typically out of luck. This need not be a skating rink in the Netherlands, it might also be one in Belgium or Germany. The skating clubs at Hoorn, Zoetermeer and Den Bosch are open at least 10 months out of a year, so these skating clubs do not rent ice elsewhere. Nijmegen does not rent summer ice (at least, it didn't 2 years ago, not sure about this year) elsewhere because of the high cost (this means their elite skaters, if they have any, are probably also a member of an other club just to have summer ice) and I think Heerenveen doesn't rent ice elsewhere because it's so far north it is too far from the summer-open rinks to make practicing at those rinks practical. Until a few years ago they were open a second time in summer for 6 weeks, they're not anymore, I don't know how they solve this problem.

Becoming a member of an ice skating club makes you a member of the Dutch skating association (as of coming season, I think that'll be the Dutch figure skating association), which means you are allowed to participate in test sessions and competitions of which this association approves (participating in unapproved competitions means you lose your membership - this mostly means you can't participate in foreign competitions which are not international, obviously the skating association approves of such things as European championships, Worlds, Olympics, etc.) I should in this regard note that major cities in Germany and Belgium are as close as an hour's drive away from some major cities in the Netherlands, and there are no border patrol checkpoints within Europe (although there'll often be a car, like a police car only from the border patrol, parked by the road at the border which will follow and pull over random vehicles, but chances of getting pulled over for a check are pretty low and it typically only takes a few minutes to check all the documents). In other words, the temptation to participate in an unapproved competition just across the border can get pretty high. ;) I know some people who have participated in obscure little competitions and gotten away with it, but the rules say (or at least, used to say) you can lose your membership over it.

If you are a member of two figure skating clubs, you pay club membership fees twice, but you only pay the Dutch skating association fee once (your first club will pay the fee and then bill you for it, your second club won't). If you're not going to bother to compete or test within a year, your club might not sign you up with the association to save on costs. I know my skating club did that last year with me, cuz I only skated for the last month of the season (was recovering from injury before that).

At Dutch rinks, there is no such thing as a practice session or a public skating session. Clubs rent ice and give lessons (this also includes curling clubs, ice dance and figure skating, hockey, speed skating, shorttrack etc), the time free from lessons the skating rinks will typically open for public for a per-session fee (some rinks allow you to buy a subscription to these public hours, or a multi-pass). Not all rinks allow practicing figure skating elements on these public sessions, most however do. Private lessons are typically given either on public ice or on club-rented ice (if that's the case, you can expect a LOT of skaters on the ice anyway), "patch" ice only happens when a club rents the skating rink for an hour or two and then rents out patches to elite skaters. They will typically do this only for the elite skaters, sometimes for the secondary competition (like, just below elite), as adult skaters you're usually out of luck in that regard and end up practicing on publics with all the problems that come with it (you can't practice some things on publics). Patch ice is more readily available across the border in Belgium (even to Dutch skaters), but they typically demand you rent the patch with a coach. Some skaters I know got around this by getting a coach who taught a kind of learn-to-skate and who also was himself still an active skater, and then just going out and practicing all together. :twisted: The vast majority of the lessons here are group lessons, even elite skaters have group lessons - the only difference is, they also take private lessons on top of those group lessons. I guess you could say for them, the group lessons are a kind of overseen practice time.

In regards to testing sessions - typically, the skating association says, we're gonna have X number of sessions this year and clubs Z,Y,W,etc will be organizing those, same for competitions. Not always though, for very low level tests and some competitions the clubs will take initiative to organize, and will keep the thing restricted to their own members. We only have one skating association, so no ISI/USFSA confusion there.

In short - you can't be a member of a rink, you can only have a subscription to the public skating sessions at that rink. This subscription allows you free access to these public skating sessions, but nothing more. You won't get lessons, you can't test or compete. In order to do that, you need to be a member of a skating club. If you are a member of a skating club and you only want to take the lessons, you don't need to have anything to do with your skating rink (although a lot of adult skaters hold subscriptions to some rink's public sessions, so that they can get additional practice in).

[FSWer]

In short - you can't be a member of a rink, you can only have a subscription to the public skating sessions at that rink. This subscription allows you free access to these public skating sessions, but nothing more. You won't get lessons, you can't test or compete. In order to do that, you need to be a member of a skating club. If you are a member of a skating club and you only want to take the lessons, you don't need to have anything to do with your skating rink (although a lot of adult skaters hold subscriptions to some rink's public sessions, so that they can get additional practice in).

What about in the US.? BTW. why do we have a Board for a Figure Skating Club if we have a Figure Skating Association? What is the difference?

[Skate@Delaware]

What about in the US.? BTW. why do we have a Board for a Figure Skating Club if we have a Figure Skating Association? What is the difference?
In the US, the Board for a Figure Skating Club serves the local members of that particular club, while the Figure Skating Association serves all of the members nationwide (and I believe worldwide, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

You elect your local members (your local club board) who in turn represent you to the national association.

[techskater]

In the US:
The board of the figure skating club takes care of the responsibilities of that club:
organizing and paying for club ice, organizing club competitions, test sessions, exhibitions, etc. Clubs and councils (such as the Illinois Figure Skating Council, Twin Cities Skating Association, Metro Detroit Area Figure Skating Council - made up of a group of clubs) bid to host major competitions like Regionals, Sectionals, Nationals, Junior Nationals, Synchro Sectionals/Nationals, TOI Nationals, Adult Nationals and do all of the organizing and volunteer work to make those events happen. It's through competititions that the club generates the operating revenue for the season as they typically pay more for ice than they take in from their members.

The board in turn, represents it's club members at governing council for US Figure Skating. They typically ask their constituents how they want to vote on items of interest to the club. US Figure Skating is the National Governing Body for figure skating for the USOC and represents the United States to the ISU.

[FSWer]

In the US:
The board of the figure skating club takes care of the responsibilities of that club:
organizing and paying for club ice, organizing club competitions, test sessions, exhibitions, etc. Clubs and councils (such as the Illinois Figure Skating Council, Twin Cities Skating Association, Metro Detroit Area Figure Skating Council - made up of a group of clubs) bid to host major competitions like Regionals, Sectionals, Nationals, Junior Nationals, Synchro Sectionals/Nationals, TOI Nationals, Adult Nationals and do all of the organizing and volunteer work to make those events happen. It's through competititions that the club generates the operating revenue for the season as they typically pay more for ice than they take in from their members.

The board in turn, represents it's club members at governing council for US Figure Skating. They typically ask their constituents how they want to vote on items of interest to the club. US Figure Skating is the National Governing Body for figure skating for the USOC and represents the United States to the ISU.

Can you explain that last part?

[Clarice]

The Governing Council meets every year in May. The delegates vote on things like rule changes. Each club is allowed to send a number of delegates, depending on how big the club is. Bigger clubs get more votes. Members of a club can tell their delegates how they want them to vote at Governing Council, just like we can tell our Senators and Representatives how we would like them to vote on issues of government.

[FSWer]

The Governing Council meets every year in May. The delegates vote on things like rule changes. Each club is allowed to send a number of delegates, depending on how big the club is. Bigger clubs get more votes. Members of a club can tell their delegates how they want them to vote at Governing Council, just like we can tell our Senators and Representatives how we would like them to vote on issues of government.

Rules for the Club it'self,right? So basicly when we hear them annouce something like...."Representing the Hayden Figure Skating Club,etc...there really saying....Representing the Hayden Figure Skating...Organization.

[Clarice]

A club board can make rules for just that club - things like members have to do a certain number of volunteer hours, for instance. But Governing Council votes on rules that affect all the clubs in the US - things like what moves will be on a test for a certain level, or how many skaters get to advance to the next level of competition.

But, yes, when they announce a skater as representing a certain club, that's pretty much what they mean.

[Sessy]

What about in the US.? BTW. why do we have a Board for a Figure Skating Club if we have a Figure Skating Association? What is the difference?

Same reason we have mayors and city halls even though we have a president and a parliament. The Figure Skating Association only takes care of the really big things, like new judging rules, the rest is up to the local clubs.

[Schmeck]

You can also join ISI or USFSA as an individual member, which I think is sort of like running a one person club. It's just about the only way for a skater to get a hold of some of their publications, but is probably more trouble than it is worth. I'm not sure why most individual members do it.



We've found that it is quite easy and nice to be an individual member - no one else has to sign a test or competition form, no home club rules to have to follow, Skating magazine gets delivered to our house, and we used to get the rulebook for free too!

[Clarice]

We've found that it is quite easy and nice to be an individual member - no one else has to sign a test or competition form, no home club rules to have to follow, Skating magazine gets delivered to our house, and we used to get the rulebook for free too!

Your rule book wasn't exactly free - it was included in the price of your individual membership. Individual members pay more annually than a club sends in for each member. I don't have the exact figures here, but it's something like $40 for the first family member and $15 for each additional if you do it through a club, but an individual member pays somewhere around $75. People joining through a club have to pay extra if they want a rule book. - Oh! I just saw that you said you "used to" get a rule book free - has the price of an individual membership changed to cover that, and was it truly free in the past?

Inidividual membership can work very well for some skaters (so this isn't personally directed at you, Schmeck, since I don't know your circumstances), but I hope that most people won't take that route if they have a local club available to them. Local clubs organize competitions and test sessions, and negotiate with rinks for ice. If everybody took the individual member option, these things wouldn't get done. Support your local club! :)

[Query]

why do we have a Board for a Figure Skating Club if we have a Figure Skating Association?

The reason is very simple. USFSA rules require clubs to have a Board.

===

Schmeck, you make individual memberships sound very attractive, given that local rink sessions are closer and less busy for me than club sessions, and I hate politics.

I was thinking of rejoining just to get some publications.

What are the legal or paperwork requirements for an individual USFSA membership?

[Skittl1321]

What are the legal or paperwork requirements for an individual USFSA membership?

Fill out form- pay money.

http://usfsa.org/About.asp?id=6#individual

I joined my first year as an individual because it was cheaper than the clubs in the area, even taking in account the out of club test fee.

Clubs changed their rates, and it became cheaper to be a club member. I did skate in one show, but otherwise don't really take advantage of what clubs offer, not using club ice, or multiple test sessions, or even club coaches.. Though Clarice is right- if everyone was individual, there would be no test sessions, or even competitions.

[blue111moon]

Rules for the Club it'self,right? So basicly when we hear them annouce something like...."Representing the Hayden Figure Skating Club,etc...there really saying....Representing the Hayden Figure Skating...Organization.

No, The NAME of the the skating Club is what's printed in the USFS Rulebook: Hayden Recreation Center Figure Skating Club, to use your example. That's what should be accounced a competition. Hayden Recreation Center Figure Skating Club is a member of the United Stated Figure Skating Association, which is also know as US Figure Skating. As the National Governing Body, US Figure Skating is a member of the International Skating Union, which governs World and Olympic Figure and speed skating.

So it works like this:

Suzy Skater belongs to Hayden Rec. Ctr FSC. and represents HRCFSC when she competes or tests.

Hayden Rec. Ctr. FSV belongs to USFigure Skating (aka USFSA) and runs events likes competitions and tests in accorsance with USFS rules. HRCFSC has a Board of Directors elected by the members that runs the club for the members.

US Figure Skating is heaquartered in Colorado Springs and makes the rules for all the member clubs in the country. USFSA has a Board of directors that oversee the organization but any decision they make must be voted by delegates from the member clubs on at the Annual Governing Council Meeting in May.

USFigure skating is a member of the International Skating Union. All the countries who send skaters to the World Championships and the Olympics have to have a national federation that is a member of the ISU. Every federation sends representative to the ISU meetings to vote on rules that cover international competitions.

Individual members of US Figure Skating do not belong to a club but pay their dues directly to USFigure Skating.

[Schmeck]

We've joined the local club when one was available, but there was a bit of a mess with clubs in our area a few years ago, and so we became individual members for a bit.

We also have enough rink-run (opposed to club-run) ice sessions in our area to counter-balance nonmember ice fees, but I would still support the local clubs when possible.

Individual members don't have much say in things though for competitions, shows, etc. Being involved in a club has some nice perks, and I really enjoyed it when my older daughter was more involved in skating.

[FSWer]

We've joined the local club when one was available, but there was a bit of a mess with clubs in our area a few years ago, and so we became individual members for a bit.

We also have enough rink-run (opposed to club-run) ice sessions in our area to counter-balance nonmember ice fees, but I would still support the local clubs when possible.

Individual members don't have much say in things though for competitions, shows, etc. Being involved in a club has some nice perks, and I really enjoyed it when my older daughter was more involved in skating.

Funny. I've always heard it as Hayden Figure Skating Club. BTW. I've always invissioned a Figure Skating Club as being a group of Skaters who meet at 1 Rink and it actully says the name of the club on the building.

[Clarice]

I've always invissioned a Figure Skating Club as being a group of Skaters who meet at 1 Rink and it actully says the name of the club on the building.

That would be very unusual. Even in my town, where there's only one rink and one club, it doesn't say the name of the club on the building. We don't own it, and other groups - like hockey teams - also use it.

[blue111moon]

Funny. I've always heard it as Hayden Figure Skating Club. BTW. I've always invissioned a Figure Skating Club as being a group of Skaters who meet at 1 Rink and it actully says the name of the club on the building.

There are a few clubs who own their own rinks: The Skating Club of Boston's rink has it's name on the building; there, the club means the members AND the building. The Philadelphia Skating Club and Humane Society owns its rink as well.

But the majority of the clubs rent ice from a facility that's owned by a corporation, a municipality, a college or a private individual. The clubs need a Board of Directors or Governors to oversee the club's business. Also since the majority of skaters are under 18, the skaters need adults to represent the club legally, to sign contracts and pay bills and collect fees.

As for Hayden, the name of the rink they skate out of is The John P. Chase Skating Facility, which is located on the grounds of the Josiah Willard Hayden Recreation Centre in Lexington, MA. It's a private non-profit complex. The club takes its name from the complex. "Hayden Recreation Centre Figure Skating Club" is the club's official name. Some people may shorten that to "Hayden Figure Skating Club" but that's more like a nickname. At competitions, the members are supposed to use the club's full name but not everyone fills out the applications correctly and sometimes the announcers don't know or don't read the names correctly. At qualifying competitions like Regionals, you should always hear the correct full legal names of the clubs. Non-qualifying competitions are sometimes more relaxed.

It's also possible you've mixed up some similar-sounding club names. In New England, there's Hayden Rec. Center FSC , The Skating Club of Hartford, The Skating Club of Hingham, and the Hamden Figure Skating Association, just to name the ones starting with H.