Preliminary Figure test question

[Skittl1321]

I'm wondering if someone can give me some guidance on what is required for the preliminary figure test. I see that there are the basic edges, then forward 8s and the waltz 8. The rulebook says each figure must be traced 3 times- do the basic edges follow that as well? Or are they like edges on the MITF test? Can someone explain how these edges are different from the MITF test? I understand the circle eights will be different, because on the moves test you just have to complete them, here you have to trace them. Is preliminary figure an "encouragment test" like other first level tests? How exact is the waltz-8 expected to be?

It's unlikely I'll ever find a test session that allows me to take this test, but since I'm pretty much out of the game for freestyle and moves, I thought it would be interesting to give it a try.


(BTW- "Ask a coach" isn't really an option for me. There are no coaches at my rink who did figures, much less coached them. A rink not too far from here, that I don't skate at, has 3 coaches who list figures tests in their bios- 1st figure, 2nd figure, and 4th figure. I think they all might be too young to have actually coached them.)

[Purple Sparkly]

The basic edges are the same as those on the MITF tests. The figure tests have not been modified since the introduction of MITF.

The preliminary figure test is an encouragement tests like the other pre-preliminary tests. Your waltz eight and circle eights don't have to be perfectly traced, but you should try to get them within a couple inches.

As long as those coaches didn't pass the tests when they were very young, one of them should probably be able to help you with the preliminary test. It may be beneficial for you to have a lesson or two with one of them to learn how to set up your circles.

[Skittl1321]

The basic edges are the same as those on the MITF tests. The figure tests have not been modified since the introduction of MITF.


Thanks. So since the edges are the same as MITF, I should just worry about them being even and stable, and not wory about them being 7.5 foot lobes that are 15 ft in diameter? (I know for MITF, I didn't think about any of that...) I'm glad to know I don't have to trace them.

I do plan to work with a coach on these, but it's going to be her "best guess"- and while she will be able to critique of my skating skills, she's never done figures herself. If we are at a total loss, then I might look up one of the coaches from the other rinks- but my guess is they probably did do the tests as children. I know they didn't do them as adults.

[icedancer2]

I would encourage you to work with someone who has actually done figures, even as children (I did figures as a child and find that I remember a great deal of what was to be done, what they look like, what is expected, etc. For instance, how the centers are set up on the figures are pretty specific.

The difference with the edges in the Preliminary test vs. how they are done in Moves is that you don't do them on the line. At least we didn't when I was a kid and also when I took the Adult Bronze figures I didn't do the edges on a line. It may vary by region, however - you may also need to consult with a judge if you want to test.

The Preliminary Figure test can be judged by a panel of one judge if they are Intermediate level or higher - so maybe you could test the figures "off the grid" so to speak - speak with your test chair, talk to a judge, and do the test during a quiet session during the day or whenever you can grab some ice. That is what I did for my Adult Bronze test.

The Waltz 8 - 3 repeats, should be traced as well as possible, the 3s should be approximately traced.

It is an encouragement test and I encourage you to do it!!!

[Skittl1321]

The difference with the edges in the Preliminary test vs. how they are done in Moves is that you don't do them on the line.


Good to know! I knew the other figures could only be done with a center mark (which is how I did my waltz 8 on MITF), but hadn't really thought about that for the edges.

I'll see if the "rogue test" option will work for me- our judges are mostly from out of state, but maybe I can just grab one when they are in town for another test session, if they are qualified...

As I see if I can even get close to doing these, I'll definetly try to talk with one of the other coaches about it too.

[icedancer2]

I'll see if the "rogue test" option will work for me- our judges are mostly from out of state, but maybe I can just grab one when they are in town for another test session, if they are qualified...



"Rouge test" LOL

Try to find a judge who has been judging for a long time and most likely they will have a figures appointment. And very likely they will be thrilled that you are interested.

Come up to Portland for our figures competition this summer and you can test your figures - we are combining it with a little figures test session this year... I know, probably too soon for you (August 7-8)

[Purple Sparkly]

The difference with the edges in the Preliminary test vs. how they are done in Moves is that you don't do them on the line. At least we didn't when I was a kid and also when I took the Adult Bronze figures I didn't do the edges on a line. It may vary by region, however - you may also need to consult with a judge if you want to test.

This is definitely a regional difference. In Indiana we allow the Preliminary figures edges to be done on the line. The circles may also be permitted to use the line for preliminary (but no higher), but I'm not certain. I am pretty sure they did not allow the circles for preliminary figure 20 years ago to use the line. I have never heard anything different about the edges on a line in the pre-MITF years and I think they have always done them that way.

One of the clubs in my area still has figures on the test form and there was a skater that passed preliminary figure a couple months ago.

[Isk8NYC]

IIRC, Figures were never done on a line or using a hockey circle in NJ. We had actual "patches" with marks and numbers on the wall, so that may have been the reason.

I use the lines as the axis to teach the Waltz Eight pattern, and the hockey circles for the Preliminary Moves crossover circles. But, I move the skater around after they get the basic idea so that they become more flexible and focused on their skating pattern, not on the lines.

I teach the Figure Eight Edges between the lines in an open area. It makes it so much easier to see the roundness of the circles. I have them mark their center, indicate their axis, and off they go. If they pass a hockey dot, the circle's too big, so they have to map out their circles better.

I think one of the keys is to have the skater plan out their next quarter-circle by looking ahead for their target spot on the ice. This works with the Waltz Eight as well - focus on the three turn, then half of the back outside edge is before the line, half after the line, then the FO should curve you back to your starting point.

[blue111moon]

Almost any judge who's been judging more than ten years will have judged some figure tests, but I agree about contacting a couple of the more experienced higher-test judges for advice, especially if your coach doesn't have experience with them.

Although I think your coach should probably contact other coaches about figures rather than chance teaching them incorrectly. While the Pre Figure test is an encouragment test and the chances of failing it are slim, you still want to learn the skills correctly

To me hiring a coach who's never done figures to teach them, would be like hiring a racecar driver to teach me to ride a motorcycle. The skills are probably similar but there's a big difference in execution.

[Skittl1321]

To me hiring a coach who's never done figures to teach them, would be like hiring a racecar driver to teach me to ride a motorcycle. The skills are probably similar but there's a big difference in execution.

But I'd rather have the racecar driver advise me than try to figure it out on my own. The other coaches aren't at my rink- and my skating budget doesn't allow me to skate at the other rink- between the commute and the ice costs, using those coaches isn't a great option. I can consulte with them a bit, because I know them, but they don't coach at my rink.

[Ellyn]

Almost any judge who's been judging more than ten years will have judged some figure tests

More like 15 years or more -- USFSA stopped issuing new figures judging appointments several years before they stopped holding figures competitions at qualifying levels.

[Skittl1321]

More like 15 years or more -- USFSA stopped issuing new figures judging appointments several years before they stopped holding figures competitions at qualifying levels.

In other words- I have no chance of finding one? :)

[icedancer2]

In other words- I have no chance of finding one? :)

No, because those judges are still judging and they still have their figure appointment.

If you have on of those US Figure Skating directories with all of the clubs and judges listed you would be able to find one. I am looking right now at the directory and there are two figures judges in Iowa - one has a Gold appointment and the other has an International appointment so they should be able to help you.

[Skittl1321]

I just talked with someone who took a preliminary figures test in Iowa, only about an hour from here, so there is a club that will do it if there is demand. (Since it only needs one judge.)

So this may be possible... however, after seeing how BIG the figures need to be, I really have my doubts. I can do the edges (with or without the line) to the right size- but my circle 8s and waltz 8 right now are about half the size they are apparently supposed to be!

[icedancer2]

I just talked with someone who took a preliminary figures test in Iowa, only about an hour from here, so there is a club that will do it if there is demand. (Since it only needs one judge.)

So this may be possible... however, after seeing how BIG the figures need to be, I really have my doubts. I can do the edges (with or without the line) to the right size- but my circle 8s and waltz 8 right now are about half the size they are apparently supposed to be!

Are you using a scribe? The size can vary but the two circles should be the same size... and lined up...

[Skittl1321]

Are you using a scribe? The size can vary but the two circles should be the same size... and lined up...

The rink has a scribe- but I haven't used it yet. Our ice was HORRIBLE today, so I figured now was not the time to start. But I read in the rulebook that each circle should be 3x your height in diameter- so that's 15 ft for me. I think the circle 8s and waltz 8 as I did for MITF would fit tightly together inside a 15 ft circle.

[blue111moon]

I'm 5'6" (66"). I set my scribe on 104" which was plenty large enough and forced me to really hold the edges, yet still allowed me to go bigger without getting too huge. ( I know the measurement because I still have my scribe and there's a dent worn in the metal at the 104" mark from the years of holding that setting.

I still think that you need at least one or two lessons with someone who KNOWS figures and how to teach them. Maybe you and your current coach could go together? Otherwise you're pretty much wasting your money paying someone to guess what might be right - and might not be. There is a pretty big difference between MITF eights and figure eights. Tracing is the least of it.

Any of the judges who were skaters themselves 15 years ago would know how figures should be done. That doesn't mean "old" - Anyone who skated before 1998 dpretty much did some figures since the US phased them out more slowly than the rest of the world.

[renatele]

But I read in the rulebook that each circle should be 3x your height in diameter- so that's 15 ft for me. I think the circle 8s and waltz 8 as I did for MITF would fit tightly together inside a 15 ft circle.

I just checked the NHL rulebook (http://www.nhl.com/league/ext/rules/2009-2010_Rule_Book.pdf) what size the hockey circles are required to be - apparently, they are 30' diameter - wow, I'd have guessed quite smaller!

So seems that for you, your whole figure 8 should extend from the top of the hockey circle to the bottom (just for size reference).

[blue111moon]

I am looking right now at the directory and there are two figures judges in Iowa - one has a Gold appointment and the other has an International appointment so they should be able to help you.


I find the only three judges in the state all have figure appointments: one Gold, one Intermediate, one Low Test.

Skimming through the lists from other states, I think it's safe to say that at least half of the singles and pairs judges have figure appointments. So there are still enough judges out there qualified to judge them. It's the coaches who are losing the knowledge of how to teach them. Of the twelve coaches currently teaching at my rink, four of them passed higher figure tests: one Eighth, one 7th, two 5th. The youngest adult skater is 28; she skated as a kid up to age 15 and did figures up to 4th Test. Some of the judges in their mid-to-late 30's also did figures up to the higher levels.

[icedancer2]

I find the only three judges in the state all have figure appointments: one Gold, one Intermediate, one Low Test.



Oh, LOL - my directory is kind of old and I read "INT" as International... Oopsie.

[Skittl1321]

I just checked the NHL rulebook (http://www.nhl.com/league/ext/rules/2009-2010_Rule_Book.pdf) what size the hockey circles are required to be - apparently, they are 30' diameter - wow, I'd have guessed quite smaller!

So seems that for you, your whole figure 8 should extend from the top of the hockey circle to the bottom (just for size reference).

Yeah- we thought they were smaller than that too (and apparently bad at estimating distance.) I'm not quite as far off as I suspected I would be. That makes me feel a bit better!


I'm going to email a coach at another rink (not the one I previously mentioned- but further out) who I know has taken an adult through preliminary figure. Hopefully she'll have a spot where I can do a lesson or two...