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View Full Version : Thank You Skating Forums!


phoenix
06-29-2010, 09:51 PM
I just have to say this!

I'm currently in the middle of taking my last CER course for the coaches required certification. These courses are supposed to be 'continuing education' for coaches. Alas, they really haven't done anything to help my knowledge base as a coach.

I'm currently going through the "Coaching the Young Skater" course. I happen to be coaching a very ambitious, talented young skater right now, & I have had questions about how to deal with overseeing her development. How much jumping is too much? How much off-ice training should she be doing? What type of blades are appropriate for each level of her development? How much should she be competing? What kind of scale can I use to track her progress to try to keep her on pace with her peers and age appropriate levels for a competitor? I've actually consulted w/ PT's, a doctor, and lots of books, etc. to be sure I'm doing the right thing w/ her (she's one of those who will jump all day if I let her).

I was hoping this course might be very useful. But it isn't. All it talks about is really general stuff that anyone with an ounce of common sense already knows.

MEANWHILE, over at SF, I have learned VOLUMES about boot/blade options, off ice training exercises, age/talent progression charts, competition rules, IJS, this list is endless! And if I couldn't find something I just ask, and 20 people are right there to help out.

So, THANK YOU, Skating Forums posters, for being a vastly helpful resource and making me a more knowledgeable coach.....something the PSA hasn't gotten the hang of yet (at least for online education--to be fair their seminars in person are great). I think all coaches should be required to read our message boards as part of their continuing education!! :mrgreen:

icestalker
06-30-2010, 10:52 AM
If the the courses don't help at all..

How do people learn to coach? As in, being able to pick out the tiny tiny imperfections in a jump? Do they intern/get mentored?

phoenix
06-30-2010, 11:35 AM
If the the courses don't help at all..

How do people learn to coach? As in, being able to pick out the tiny tiny imperfections in a jump? Do they intern/get mentored?

Yes, sometimes. I worked as an "apprentice" w/ another coach for 3 years. Plus of course, everything I learned/am learning from my own lessons w/ my coach. Plus, books, videos, seminars, discussions w/ other coaches, online message boards....it's very much a cumulative effort that continues every year.

PSA added some online courses several years ago but so far of the 4 that I've taken (3 required, 1 voluntary), I'm less than impressed w/ the content.

dbny
06-30-2010, 01:34 PM
If the the courses don't help at all..

How do people learn to coach? As in, being able to pick out the tiny tiny imperfections in a jump?

What Phoenix said, plus experience! I learn from my students every day. IMO, not everyone who can skate can coach. Good coaching takes a particular blend of technical understanding, observational skills, and communication skills, along with some creativity and a mind always open to new approaches.

phoenix
06-30-2010, 01:42 PM
...plus experience! I learn from my students every day. IMO, not everyone who can skate can coach.

Amen to that!!

rsk8d
06-30-2010, 01:47 PM
The most beneficial thing for me was a college education! For a physical therapy degree you take many many courses related to biomechanics such as anatomy, physiology, kinesiology, functional anatomy etc. I became such a better coach after college,, that I feel bad that I actually took parents' money when I was in high school! :). A skating coach needs a very sound knowledge of how the body works and moves, and how each joint affects the others. Of course, experience is a big part of it too, but if your brain can't recognize certain movement connections, you may not be educating yourself enough.

Isk8NYC
06-30-2010, 04:38 PM
I think that all coaches starting out should attend PSA, ISI and USFSA educational workshops, most especially the "Learn to Teach" programs/events. Still, there's nothing better than working with an experienced instructor who knows how to teach the teacher.

This board is tremendous, I agree, and I'm glad to be part of the community. When we have discussions with different viewpoints, it's great to learn new things or open new avenues of thought.

icedancer2
06-30-2010, 07:37 PM
I'm not a coach but as a skater and a judge I think I have learned a great deal from this board - in addition to learning from my own coach and fellow judges.

So I would also like to thank skatingforums - I love when people report on tests they have taken, what passed, what didn't - judges comments, coaches and their techniques, rule changes (I often know the changes before anyone else because of this forum) and rule interpretations (which can vary, I know) - this is the best board I have been on - also very easy to navigate which is great.

Thanks everyone!!

dbny
06-30-2010, 09:05 PM
this is the best board I have been on - also very easy to navigate which is great.

Thanks everyone!!

ITA, and add my thanks!

7amshop
06-30-2010, 10:04 PM
I love skating!
:mrgreen:

blue111moon
07-01-2010, 07:21 AM
The best coaches I know learn from experience - through teaching trial and error and trying new ways to word things, through talking with and observing the techniques of other coaches, from attending seminars and classes and from reading the rulebooks and official publications of the governing bodies (USFS, ISU, PSA and ISI). They keep up with changes and talk with judges and tech panel members. They stay current.

From what I've seen of the PSA courses, they don't seemed designed to TEACH the subjects but more to TEST how well the coach already knows the subject (or at least how well the coach knows where to find the information). From talking to some of the newer coaches in my area, I'm amazed at how much of the "common sense" they don't know and haven't considered until it came up in the courses.

To me, the biggest danger is when a coach assumes that because they've skated for x number of years, they "know" everything and basically stop learning. (I know a local-level high-test coach who refuses to attend PSA seminars even when they're held in her backyard because - and this is a direct quote - "There's nothing Franck Carroll can teach me." That's just wrong and is a disservice to her students and parents who are paying her for her expertise.)

Heck, I've been teaching tots for more than 20 years now (gasp!), I have a degree in education and I'm a USFS official so I HAVE to know the rules - and I still attend the Basic Skills seminars whenever there's one in my area. If nothing else I pick up new games or twists on old ones.

dbny
07-01-2010, 09:21 PM
The seminars and the annual PSA conference are wonderful, and I have always learned a lot from attending them. The CER, on the other hand, is a complete waste of time and money. I did the first one (Ethics) two days ago. With the exception of two questions (neither of which were in the course material) it was common sense. I did the other two yesterday. The Rules course had questions that were pointless, IMO. How does knowing the composition of the Board of Directors make one a better coach? I'm not saying it's not something to learn, but it really has no bearing on coaching. I thought the Sports Safety & Science would be worthwhile, but again, pure common sense. I had to force myself to read the doc so I would know where to find answers, if necessary, but only had to look for one answer, and that just to be sure. Glad it's done!

blue111moon
07-02-2010, 06:54 AM
I think for good conscientious coaches, the CER courses are pretty much common sense. But unfortunately for the sport, not every coach out there is conscientious and common sense isn't always that common among them. So far only three of the coaches the rink has hired over the past year have managed to pass the three CER; I had to tell the director this week that unless the others pass, they will not be allowed to teach on club ice in the fall.

The way I see it, I'm protecting the club and the skaters. At least, if the coaches have passed the tests, they can't claim ignorance later on, if something bad happens.

icestalker
07-07-2010, 08:31 PM
I completely agree that just because a skater is a good skater, doesn't mean they are a good coach. It so very much annoyed me that a World Class skater came to my rink, retired, and immediately started charging the second highest rate at the rink for lessons. He doesn't even do group lessons. Snob. :x

I am doing the crash-course slash observation slash experimental way of learning to coach. I observe my coach and store away little bits of information as she coaches me and coaches beginners. My mom is my guinea pig. She mainly has problems with half swizzle pumps, one foot glides and two foot spins, and I immediately identified that she is not placing her weight correctly (her weight's in the middle, for half swizzles you need your weight on one foot and pump with the other, one foot glide weight problem is obvious.) But I pay attention to her arm, hip, knee and shoulder placement, and fix any placement problems or weight placement problem. If I don't know what the correct body position is I look it up on here :mrgreen:
From observing the other coaches, I picked up on ways to help the skater (such as 'hug the circle' when doing movements on a circle, and 'put your jacket zipper over left/right leg' to get the skater to align their body weight over one leg.) Mom has really good stroking for being a Basic 2/3 skater (she does a two foot glide in between pushes to regain balance and can't hold the extended one foot glide for long, but she doesn't toe-push and has a really nice leg line and good power/speed.)

What kind of 'common sense' questions were on the CER tests?
I was on a website once about coaching (forgot what site address), and there was a video of a girl doing a double axel and falling. The purpose was to see if you could identify the problem. After watching the video, you were taken to the same video, but edited with lines/arrows/degrees showing her leg position, and paused in critical places. You were then shown a skater doing a correct double axel and landing it clean, with the same lines and such drawn on the video. It concluded with what to tell the skater to fix (don't swing leg, straighten back, etc.) Do any of the courses or seminars have that type of instruction?

Clarice
07-08-2010, 02:21 AM
The seminars and the annual PSA conference are wonderful, and I have always learned a lot from attending them. The CER, on the other hand, is a complete waste of time and money. I did the first one (Ethics) two days ago. With the exception of two questions (neither of which were in the course material) it was common sense. I did the other two yesterday. The Rules course had questions that were pointless, IMO. How does knowing the composition of the Board of Directors make one a better coach? I'm not saying it's not something to learn, but it really has no bearing on coaching. I thought the Sports Safety & Science would be worthwhile, but again, pure common sense. I had to force myself to read the doc so I would know where to find answers, if necessary, but only had to look for one answer, and that just to be sure. Glad it's done!


I pretty much agree with what you have said. I thought, however, that the point of the Rules course was simply to force us to look things up in the Rule Book and learn how to navigate that document. The individual questions weren't all that important, but I thought it was an okay exercise. I know a lot of people, including coaches, who never think to go to the source. The coach registration process makes sure that we all own a copy, and now this CER makes sure we use it (if only once a year to do that test).