Twizzled backspin- driving me insane!

[icestalker]

I have been working on the backspin.. about 8-10 weeks I believe. When I started, I was getting about one good revolution, and now, 8 weeks later, it's gone completely down the drain.
My first problem was not turning at all, resulting in me just going around on an inside edge. That was fixed pretty quickly. But I still do it sometimes.
My second problem was double-threeing. My tracings show me doing two three turns, first the RFI one then a RBO one. They are so close together, the marks look like half a box or part of a crown. It's a curve, then the 3, then a straight line about two-three inches in length, then another 3.
My third problem was twizzling. Four or six three turns. This happened about ten or fifteen times in public skate (so I couldn't show it to my instructor.) I did a few RFI waltz threes then stopped, so as to avoid forming bad habits of twizzling. This really is driving me up the wall. Three different instructors have offered all sorts of ways to correct my position, and even when I seem to be in correct position I still double three or twizzle.

Oh, and I need a half decent backspin for a competition in September, so this needs to be fixed in the next three months. (I will be taking private lessons to work on the comp.)

Any help? Has anybody else twizzled/double three'd their backspins- and how did you fix it?

[Sessy]

I'm no expert on backspins but if you can do 3's you're too far back on the blade and not spinning on the ball of your foot.

[Skate@Delaware]

I "twizzle" when I'm not down enough in the knee and centered before bringing my free leg in and rising up on my spinning leg. It just throws everything off.

[dbny]

Try not rising up. Just do the FI3, letting your free leg stay in front and keep your knee bent to keep the weight forward. If that works, you can proceed to rising up after the spin is solid on the BO edge.

[katz in boots]

I feel your pain, had the same problem myself.
For me it was because I wasn't on the correct part of my blade, was too far back. As soon as I discovered the correct part of blade - which I did by trying forward spins on my R (CCW) leg, I stopped twizzling.

Pay particular attention to this, and to your posture, and I think your coach should be able to help you fix this in time for your comp

[Isk8NYC]

I think a twizzle tracing looks like a halloween bat outline, lol.

You have to concentrate on keeping your weight on the back outside edge of the rocker. The twizzles come from keeping your weight on the middle of the blade. It happens a lot with skaters who don't have strong edge control. Focus on pressing down with the ball of your foot on the pinkie-toe side so you hold that rocker spot.

Another big problem for beginning backspinners is that they don't keep their weight over the spinning foot. Fear tends to keep their weight more towards the center of their body, because that way they can put their other foot down. It really inhibits proper spinning.

Practice gliding on a DEEP back outside edge using that rocker area. Hold your free foot in front of the skating foot, and make sure your head (chin) is over the the skating foot. Upper body should be checked to the spinning side. Try tracing small circles in this position. The control needed is the same position for the backspin. (Bonus: this is also a good loop jump drill.)

One other note regarding the free leg. The hip is open during the three-turn entry, but it CLOSES once you've turned the three to start the spin. Keep the free foot turned out in front of the skating foot with the knee forward. An open leg/hip prevents a strong backspin edge from being held. The twizzle tracings show up when the skater brings the free leg through before the actual spin begins - you have to control your body during the entrance to hook the spin properly, then change position.

Another good drill is to do backspins where you only use the skating foot to turn the three, keeping your free leg behind and the upper body checked for a revolution or two. This is easiest if you stay down on the bent knee, only straightening as you pull into the backspin position.

[icestalker]

I will work on all the suggestions Thursday and respond to let you all know how it went :D

[LilJen]

Hope you make some progress, icestalker! I've been working on backspins for about a year now and am just starting to get the idea, maybe. . . granted, I am REALLY not gifted when it comes to spinning. . . be patient with yourself! At least you can get around multiple times on the right foot--just getting to that point has been a real trial for me!

[dbny]

Being on the correct edge is an unmistakable feeling. When you hit it you will know!

[icestalker]

I went to my lesson this morning and my backspin was even worse. I just could not do anything with it. I felt extremely unstable and was not making any progress.

My scratch spin was skidding badly on the entry and traveling with great big circles once in it, which did not used to happen but has been happening for the past two weeks. My jumps felt insecure on the landing and my salchow slipped on the entry. My backward edges felt funny though I could do three turns fine. Near the end of the lesson, my jump landings were bad, my foot/blade twisted to the side when landing. When I got off, my skates went.. click, click, CLICK.. They had been making clicking sounds for about three weeks but today the click was much louder.

My right blade had nearly worked itself off. My left blade had also loosened. The sole plates were fine, the heel screws were the ones that had come loose. My left blade was pretty loose, both screws on the right blade were halfway out and the blade wiggled easily. I checked my blades last week because of the clicking sound but nothing appeared to be wrong with them, though I must admit I did not wiggle the blade to see if it was moving. I just looked at it. Today I must've did something to loosen the screws the rest of the way.

So I got my new blades out of the truck and went to the pro-shop. The guy said that only Don did blade mountings, so he just tightened the screws and said that I could skate on it in public-skate but after public, to leave the skates in the pro shop so Don could mount them when she came in. He asked me if the blades had been loose when I got the skates (I got the skates eight weeks ago), and I'm pretty sure they weren't. I checked the screws and blade very carefully before I even skated on them for the first time.

When I went out in public-skate with the temporarily tightened screws, my backspin, jumps, and scratch spin all immediately improved. My scratch spin stopped skidding on the entry (I thought the LFO edge was dull, but it was fine after the blade was tightened) and it was centered and non-traveling. My backspin isn't good but I am not twizzling anymore. I am still double-threeing but only about 5 times out of 10. I can get about one revolution. My jumps, frankly, were amazing. They were ten times higher and the entry edge and landing edge were much more secure. They were the highest I've ever had them. In my beginner skates there wasn't enough ankle support to jump high, when I got these skates they were too stiff to jump in, so once they were broken in enough to jump high in, the blade had begun to loosen, so I actually never got a chance to improve my jumps with the stiffer ankle support and bigger toepick.

I thought it was me when I was landing weirdly and not spinning right, never even thought to check my blades. I really have no clue how I did not notice my blades gradually loosening. I've read about all the signs of blades loosening- edges skidding, landings twisting, spins traveling, and blades clicking. Yes, the click of death has two meanings. I thought the clicking sound was from the toepick clicking against the guards. Stupid, stupid me. Metal does not click when it contacts rubber. Metal clicks when loose screws are clicking against a heel plate.

Anyway, I left my skates in the pro shop with a note for Don to mount the new blades and sharpen, and I will skate on them in my Saturday lesson. Thanks to everybody who answered, I used your suggestions today in public-skate :D

[icestalker]

Being on the correct edge is an unmistakable feeling. When you hit it you will know!

Wanted to add that before I really could not figure out what I was doing to double three. When I skated yesterday on the tightened blades I could feel myself flip to the inside edge if I didn't get on the right spot on the outside, so that helps me figure out where I should be spinning. I guess before the right blade was loose enough to impair my ability to feel what I was doing with my feet.

[dbny]

Wanted to add that before I really could not figure out what I was doing to double three. When I skated yesterday on the tightened blades I could feel myself flip to the inside edge if I didn't get on the right spot on the outside, so that helps me figure out where I should be spinning. I guess before the right blade was loose enough to impair my ability to feel what I was doing with my feet.

Congratulations, you are now ahead of the game! Many skaters cannot feel which edge they are on. Once they start spinning on the FI edge, they have a huge uphill battle to fix it. I strongly recommend you bail the second you feel the wrong edge. That way you will not develop the bad habit of spinning that way. When you've mastered the backspin, you can work of flipping to the FI edge for a feature.