MK Pro vs Coronation Ace

[san]

I thought I'd post my recent experience with new blades, because I was surprised at how much MK Pro blades have changed since the last time I bought blades way back in 1995. I'm also curious if anyone else has had a similar experience.

I've been skating on really, really flat 15 year old MK Pros. Before that, when I skated as a kid, I had Coronation Aces. I always had heard, and thought, that MK Pros and Coronation Aces were interchangeable.

The first pair of MK Pros I ordered had to be sent back because the rocker was not 7'--it was more like 5 1/2'. The rocker profile was also much rounder than I remembered from my old pair, and much rounder than the display pair of MK Pros at the skate shop. I attributed the enormous (at least to me) rocker profile to the rocker radius defect.

But when the replacement MK Pro blades came, with the correct rocker this time, the rocker profile was still much bigger and curvier than I remembered. The display blades, which the skate shop manager said were several years old, were much flatter and more like I remember my old blades being when they were new. I'd emailed Riedell and asked if the blade had been redesigned, b/c the toe pick is different too, but they said no. However, clearly the blade has changed.

I tried skating in the new MK Pro blades and found them to be unlike anything I'd ever skated on in my 35 years of skating, and not in a good way. In order to get up to my toe pick to attempt to jump, etc., I had to lift my heel about 1 1/2", which I've never had to do before. I felt like I was going to topple over any second. Spinning and simple 3 turns were impossible. I'm a Silver level skater, and I could barely do crossovers in them.

I ended up buying a pair of Coronation Aces instead, skated in them today, and was amazed at the difference. The ride-up to the toe pick is much easier for me--I only have to raise my heel about an inch. There is also more blade on the ice, which was important to me b/c I went down 1/2" in blade size due to new boot size.

I'd anticipated an adjustment period with new boots and blades, especially with the new sizes, but I was surprised at how much the MK Pro blade has changed over the years and how it no longer works for me, at all. And I was surprised at how much difference there was with the Coronation Ace for me, when the blades are considered to be so similar.

Just thought I'd share, since there is often discussion of the two blades in terms of comparability, and also I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience.

[icestalker]

Supposedly the only difference between Pros and Aces is the toepick style. Now I wonder if maybe they have a slightly different sweet spot and a slightly different heel rocker. Even when comparing two different types of blades of the same rocker, they all are designed differently in terms of the sweet spot and heel rocker.

I thought that you were having problems just because your 15 yr old blades were probably flattened to around a 9' rocker, but if you skated fine on the Aces, makes me wonder. I'll stick around and see what others have to say.

[san]

Definite, definite difference in the heel rocker, at least between the two sets of blades I was trying out.

Funny enough, even though my old blades were probably flattened to a 9' rocker, like you said, I can spin just fine on them. I can't spin on the new Coronation Aces yet, but I think it's just a balance issue and I can tell that once I get that resolved, the spins will be faster.

[doubletoe]

Wow, sounds like the MK Pros and Coronation Aces have a different rocker profile for sure.

[flyingcupcake]

I'm going to encounter this same situation soon. I have MK Pros from when I skated as a kid about 13 years ago. Just started skating again and found the old MK Pros still had some life in them, but the rocker's probably pretty flat. I wanted to mount my old blades to new boots, but the fitter said the blades weren't the correct length so I ordered new MK Pros to go with the new boots.

So I guess I'll add my opinion soon on how the new MK pros compare when I start the break-in process for the new boot/blade combo next week...

[Isk8NYC]

Too bad no one has old, unused blades or profile tracings to really compare to a new set of blades instead of comparing sharpeners, lol.

If you start out with a bad sharpening, you'll never know if the rocker profile is different. You have to compare apples to apples with new blades.

[san]

Too bad no one has old, unused blades or profile tracings to really compare to a new set of blades instead of comparing sharpeners, lol.

Actually, the display pair of MK Pros at the shop was quite old, according to the manager, and the display pair and the new pair of MKs were completely different in terms of rocker profile. I was really surprised.

Flyingcupcake, I'll be interested in what you think of your new MK's when you get them next week.

[aussieskater]

My current MK Pros (purchased and mounted last year) were old stock when I bought them, from an online hockey shop going out of figure blades. The first thing I did after pulling off the silicon bead was to trace off the rocker of both blades, before they were sharpened. I can post the tracing if it would help anyone compare old to new? (aussieskater hopes she can find the tracing...:oops:)

[icestalker]

Even though blades are classified as 7' and 8' they're all different, because the curve isn't uniform throughout the blade, so always be wary of "interchanging" two different blades that seem like they are the same. Which I think blade companies should describe the profile of the sweet spot and heel rocker, to make it easier for us. I would love to see tracings of CorAces and MK Pros. I have new, unsharpened CorAces, but I need to find a camera. I'll post a tracing if I can.

[JimStanmore]

According to this site, http://gofigureskating.com/equipment/figureskateblades.html, MK uses two radii and Wilson uses 3 radii. If you look at the diagram, that makes for a very different shape and affects the feel of the sweet spot. I also noticed that MKs can be either parallel or parabolic (http://www.skatetrix.biz/index.php?main_page=page&id=24.) Width parabolic blades the width (and bite of the edge) changes along the blade. i found that because I was searching to see if the width of your two blades is different.

[doubletoe]

According to this site, http://gofigureskating.com/equipment/figureskateblades.html, MK uses two radii and Wilson uses 3 radii. If you look at the diagram, that makes for a very different shape and affects the feel of the sweet spot. I also noticed that MKs can be either parallel or parabolic (http://www.skatetrix.biz/index.php?main_page=page&id=24.) Width parabolic blades the width (and bite of the edge) changes along the blade. i found that because I was searching to see if the width of your two blades is different.

Just to clarify, rocker shape actually varies between different blade models, regardless of whether they are MK or Wilson (which are incidentally now owned by the same company and manufactured in the same factory). For example, I recently switched from MK Gold Stars to Wilson Gold Seals and the rocker felt exactly the same in spite of the different brand and different rocker radius (8' vs 7'). I chose Gold Seals because I had been told they had a very similar rocker profile to Gold Stars so there would be minimal adjustment required. MK Phantom and Wilson Pattern 99 are also said to have similar profiles to each other, which are very different from the Gold Seal and Gold Star. I'm not sure about the Coronation Ace, but from what the O.P. said, it sounds like it might be more similar to the MK Phantom/Wilson Pattern 99.

Both MK and Wilson are available with the Parabolic option, but that is an optional feature and the blade will say "Parabolic" in large print on the sides. I personally noticed zero difference when I recently went from regular to Parabolic with my new blades. My husband actually measured the width of the Parabolic blades at each point with a digital caliper and said the middle of the blade was just a few hundredths of a millimeter narrower than the ends.

I think "parallel" just means the blade is not side-honed. In other words, it is straight down from the stanchion to the blade. Side-honed (which is different from parabolic) means the blade flares out a little from top to bottom as it goes from the stanchion to the actual sharp part of the blade (but there is no difference to the width of the blade between the center and the ends of the blade). Side honing will increase the blade's "bite" when you lean on one edge or the other, since it slightly changes the angle of the blade's edges in relation to the ice.

[flyingcupcake]

Ok, I've skated about three times in the new skates now. New boots and new MK Pros. I have to say it feels like I'm skating with stiff rocking chairs on my feet. I finally worked my way up to backward crossovers today, but I can't spin well at all! I still have just the temp mounts on so I haven't tried jumping.

I'm not sure if it's the new MK Pros though, since I'm changing boots AND blades at once, and I just returned to skating two months ago on broken down boots. A bunch of things could be the factor (including just plain skating skill suckiness :oops:) so at this point, I'm just waiting and seeing. I will say that top pick on the MK Pro looks bigger than my old one (but my old one might have worn down from wear and tear?).

Is it normal to go through a crazy adjustment period when you switch blades? Comparing my old and new Pros, the old rocker is reaaallly flat and hte new one is nice and curvy.

[Isk8NYC]

I have to say it feels like I'm skating with stiff rocking chairs on my feet.That's a great analogy. I might use that when I teach, if it's okay with you. I'm always looking for new phrases to enlighten skaters about using the rocker for three turns and brackets.

Hope the boots break in soon, so you can take control of the blades.

[kayskate]

This is a very interesting thread and relevant to the prob I am having now getting used to a new pair of MK Pros. I have used MK Pros for ~17 yrs, not the same pair. i have replaced them several times. The last pr I had was purchased about 6 yrs ago and mounted on new boots. I wore them up until recently when I started on new boots and new MK Pros. Of course, my old blades had the life sharpened out of them and my boots were shot. New boots + blades is probably not a good idea at once.

Anyway, the rocker of these blades feels really huge. I feel very awkward skating on them. I assumed this was just my own fault for letting my equipment go for so long. I keep falling forward to the toe pick when doing 3turns and prepping sals, etc. Now I wonder if it is just me.

I have written about this in my journal, if anyone is interested. it is in the "current entries".

Kay

[san]

Well, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who rocked and rolled around on new MK Pros. I don't know why they decided to put such a big rocker on them, b/c I never have skated on such a thing before. Kay, I don't think it's just you letting the equipment go for so long--I'd thought that about mine, too. But I know they've changed the design, b/c I compared my new MK Pros to the old display model at the shop, and they looked nothing alike.

I also found the new Coronation Aces too much of a struggle, especially with new stiff boots, so this week I traded the Aces in for Coronation Comets. I finally can skate again, even in the stiff boots. I can't jump anything past a waltz jump yet, but the spins started coming back right away and I felt much steadier overall. And that was on the factory sharpening, so I'm sure they'll get even better when they're sharpened to my regular grind.

I'm sure if I stuck with the MK Pro or Aces I'd eventually get used to the rocker on them. but I wasn't willing to put in the adjustment time to completely relearn my balance point. I figure if I can make the Comets work right away, then that's the right blade for me. My only complaint now is the straight cross toepick, which I don't care for, but I think I'll eventually get used to that.

[Query]

Do you suppose what is really happening is that as the blade is sharpened, the rocker gradually gets flattened out, and you folks gradually got used to the flattened ones?

That would be the natural effect of a sharpening machine that did not enforce a rocker [note: some of them do, and some even have adjustable enforced rocker], if the sharpener didn't consciously make an effort to maintain the original profile.

Flattening the rocker is also a very common thing for a sharpener to do with blades that are starting to wear out as he/she starts to run out of metal and/or doesn't want to have to trim the toe pick.

Also, maybe what you folks are partly really feeling is the re-establishment of a sweet spot (a transition point, where the rocker changes, which is there to make spins and turns easier) - an amazing number of sharpeners try to create a uniform rocker diameter. Unless they carefully re-establish the sweet spot profile when they sharpen, a few sharpenings will usually kill the sweet spot. This is because it only takes a few hundredths of an inch of metal to create a strong sweet spot. What you will feel there is that you need more forward/back foot roll to go through it, and that there is a definite feel-able point there where the blade naturally and stably spins. Think of it as a very short length of the blade where there is a much smaller rocker diameter (sometimes called a spin rocker), though different blade manufacturers create that effect by a variety of ways.

Finally, I'm told it is well known that some blade manufacturers, including MK/Wilson, sharpen blades in a highly variant manner, even within the same model and length, and sometimes differently for the left and right blades. On top of this, many pro shops routinely re-sharpen new blades to the shape they think blades should have. So maybe you folks are just seeing one pair of blades sharpened differently from the one you were used to.

However, I never used MK Pro blades, so I can't really say nothing has changed in the design. And it never occurred to me to photocopy or trace the MK Dance blades I used to use, at least not when they were new.

Does anyone else have some unused blades (preferably with the factory sharpening, not with whatever their sharpener changed it to) that they could photocopy and post? It would be helpful to know when they were made, and what the model and length was.

A couple expert sharpeners told me that every once in a while MK apparently changed sharpening machines, and all of a sudden they would notice small changes in blade shapes.

One of those sharpeners also told me (caution: many years ago) that all the MK blades had the same rocker profile, regardless of model or length, and he had a profile template MK had sold him, but which was no longer available. But I have no way to confirm that is true, or was ever true.

[GoSveta]

When I switched to MK Pros I did notice how aggressive the rocker is. It's marketed as an intermediate blade, but the rocker is so aggressive, it's like that of a high freestyle blade.

When I get new boots (hopefully somewhat soon), I'm definitely getting rid of these blades.

The aggressive rocker is IMO one of the reasons why some people claim to have learned every spin under the sun on these blades, Lol.

Maybe if I were a few inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter they wouldn't startle me so much. Any bobble on these on these blades (like a rut in the ise that I hit suddenly) seems to send me on a roller coaster should I shift weight to compensate.

[san]

Do you suppose what is really happening is that as the blade is sharpened, the rocker gradually gets flattened out, and you folks gradually got used to the flattened ones?

Of course the rocker on the old MK Pro's has flattened out. But as I've stated before, I compared the brand-new MK Pros to the display model at the pro shop, which the manager said he'd had on display for some years, and the new MK Pros and the unused older pair of MK Pros look like totally different blades.

When I switched to MK Pros I did notice how aggressive the rocker is. It's marketed as an intermediate blade, but the rocker is so aggressive, it's like that of a high freestyle blade.

When I get new boots (hopefully somewhat soon), I'm definitely getting rid of these blades.

The aggressive rocker is IMO one of the reasons why some people claim to have learned every spin under the sun on these blades, Lol.

Maybe if I were a few inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter they wouldn't startle me so much. Any bobble on these on these blades (like a rut in the ise that I hit suddenly) seems to send me on a roller coaster should I shift weight to compensate.

Thank you! My thoughts exactly.

[flyingcupcake]

That's a great analogy. I might use that when I teach, if it's okay with you. I'm always looking for new phrases to enlighten skaters about using the rocker for three turns and brackets.

Haha, yes of course. Coaching analogies are the best, btw. It always helps me whenever my coach comes up with something, and she sometimes comes up with the most random ones! :lol:

Day 3 with the new skates tomorrow. These are only the second pair of skates I've had to break in so it's a learning process. Back to the blades though, I'm hoping to get a better feel for them once the boots are broken in.

[katz in boots]

I also found the new Coronation Aces too much of a struggle, especially with new stiff boots, so this week I traded the Aces in for Coronation Comets. I finally can skate again, even in the stiff boots. I can't jump anything past a waltz jump yet, but the spins started coming back right away and I felt much steadier overall.

Aren't Comets like an 8 1/2' rocker ???8O UUm, sounds to me like you got used to really flattened blades before switching.

[san]

Aren't Comets like an 8 1/2' rocker ??? UUm, sounds to me like you got used to really flattened blades before switching.

Yep, they're a 8 1/2' radius. The rocker profile is more of an issue than the radius, and the Comet's rocker is not pronounced. And I like it that way. I've been skating for 35 years and have never skated on a rocker as pronounced as the one on the new MK Pros that I tried. I think I've been on fairly flat rockers my whole life and that's why the change to the new blades was more than I could handle.

[icestalker]

I ended up buying a pair of Coronation Aces instead, skated in them today, and was amazed at the difference. The ride-up to the toe pick is much easier for me--I only have to raise my heel about an inch. There is also more blade on the ice, which was important to me b/c I went down 1/2" in blade size due to new boot size.

I'd anticipated an adjustment period with new boots and blades, especially with the new sizes, but I was surprised at how much the MK Pro blade has changed over the years and how it no longer works for me, at all. And I was surprised at how much difference there was with the Coronation Ace for me, when the blades are considered to be so similar.

Just thought I'd share, since there is often discussion of the two blades in terms of comparability, and also I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience.

Today I skated on my Aces and though I did not get a chance to test out any jumps or spins besides a hurried scratch spin at the end of the session (I had a jump and spin class, and the coaches decided to make us work on our stroking and edges for the whole time), I did work on three turns, stroking, edges, spirals etc. They do feel like they might have a flatter heel rocker. I felt like I had more stability and grip on the ice, and I had no problem turning/spinning even though the heel feels like it touches the ice more than my old blades. I could get more speed and felt comfortable at a fast pace, which is supposed to be a feature of 8' blades, not 7'.

Both my old and new blades are marketed as 7' rockered, and I put the same hollow on them. They look very similar side-by-side, but I did notice that the CorAces look wider and have a shorter tail, by nearly an inch. (My old blades are Club 2000s. I have never skated on Pros.) My theory is that the heel rocker is flattened out more near the end of the blade, and to compensate, they shortened the tail so the skater still had maneuverability. The tail looks similar to a dance/synchro blade tail, but a bit longer. If the tail was an inch longer the skater would have problems turning/spinning, as if it were an 8' rocker. I was mainly concerned about leaning back on my heels and falling off the back of the blade, but I was able to easily balance on the heel rocker.

From your description of the heels on the blades, san, it seems like we both noticed the heel rocker being flatter. Did your Aces have a shorter tail than your previous blades?
I also noticed that I couldn't turn backwards and ride up on the toepicks to stop, as I do often. I guess that's because the toepicks are cross cut? I didn't get a chance to do a toe jump, so I can't account for the debate on whether or not cross cut makes a difference.

[san]

I also noticed that I couldn't turn backwards and ride up on the toepicks to stop, as I do often. I guess that's because the toepicks are cross cut? I didn't get a chance to do a toe jump, so I can't account for the debate on whether or not cross cut makes a difference.

I couldn't go up on my toepicks to stop on either the MK Pros or the Aces, and I think the issue is the larger rocker profile, not the crosscut picks. My new Comets have straight cut picks and I can go up on my toepicks no problem.

I didn't notice if the Aces had a shorter tail than the MK's, and I've given the Aces back to the shop in exchange for the Comets so I can't check. I really think that for me, everything boiled down to the roundness of the front rocker profile, and that's why I'm fine on the Comets, b/c its rocker profile is not nearly as round as either the Pros or the Aces.

[GoSveta]

I couldn't go up on my toepicks to stop on either the MK Pros or the Aces, and I think the issue is the larger rocker profile, not the crosscut picks. My new Comets have straight cut picks and I can go up on my toepicks no problem.

I didn't notice if the Aces had a shorter tail than the MK's, and I've given the Aces back to the shop in exchange for the Comets so I can't check. I really think that for me, everything boiled down to the roundness of the front rocker profile, and that's why I'm fine on the Comets, b/c its rocker profile is not nearly as round as either the Pros or the Aces.

The stopping on the toepicks going backwards would get you a few blank and fiery stares around here. It's dangerous (especially for the younger ones, who tend to develop that habit quickly and easily) and it can create more ruts in the ice, which isn't cool (there's already enough, with 80% of the skaters trying jumps!) :P

I agree about the MK Pros. Problem is I haven't had these skates/blades for a year yet and I'm starting to wonder if it's even worth it to keep skating at this point. I've paid like $800 for boots/blades and spent about $1400 going back and forth to get them skateable. More if you count medical bills since I've had to get things X Rayed, among other things.

I'm thinking of traveling to a more northern city like Chicago and getting someone to work on these a bit (I'm due for a vacation, anyways), or just waiting a few more months and throwing these away and getting a new custom pair with a different blade set.

Anyways... I'll prolly give another boot/blade a chance before I decide to give up. I'm growing quite frustrated seeing as how these boot/blade issues have obliterated all goals I've had for the past year or so.

I should have just gotten the boots that I wanted and not listened to the fitter. The reason why I got the MK Pros is cause of the cross-cut picks. The Straight Cut Picked blades I was using before kept slipping on toe jump entrances. The Cross Cut picks eliminated that, but there are obviously other (discusses in this thread) issues with that blade.

Can anyone comment on Jackson or SP-Teri boots, and whether or not there are any good fitters in the Chicago areas (contact information in a PM would be wonderful as well, for future reference...)?

[san]

The stopping on the toepicks going backwards would get you a few blank and fiery stares around here. It's dangerous (especially for the younger ones, who tend to develop that habit quickly and easily) and it can create more ruts in the ice, which isn't cool (there's already enough, with 80% of the skaters trying jumps!)

Yikes, really?!?!? Good thing it's not an issue at my rink, LOL, as I tend to do it when my blades are too sharp to stop properly. I don't leave ruts, though.

The cross-cut toe picks on the Coronation Aces, when I used them for a few days before switching to the Comets, left tremendous divots in the ice, and I wasn't even jumping--just planting my pick for jump walk-throughs. My old MK Pros with the cross-cut picks never took chunks out of the ice like that. I am concerned about the straight cut picks on the Comets slipping--we'll see how it goes when I start jumping in them this week.

I have never worn Jackson or SPTeri boots, so I can't help there. I am happy with my new Riedell 875 boots, though.

[icestalker]

The stopping on the toepicks going backwards would get you a few blank and fiery stares around here. It's dangerous (especially for the younger ones, who tend to develop that habit quickly and easily) and it can create more ruts in the ice, which isn't cool (there's already enough, with 80% of the skaters trying jumps!) :P

I should have just gotten the boots that I wanted and not listened to the fitter. The reason why I got the MK Pros is cause of the cross-cut picks. The Straight Cut Picked blades I was using before kept slipping on toe jump entrances. The Cross Cut picks eliminated that, but there are obviously other (discusses in this thread) issues with that blade.

Can anyone comment on Jackson or SP-Teri boots, and whether or not there are any good fitters in the Chicago areas (contact information in a PM would be wonderful as well, for future reference...)?

I don't leave ruts in the ice. It's just scratches, like you might see from somebody doing backward crossovers and coming up on the toepicks. It's a long slide, too, no digging in the toepicks. It's the way people stop when they're setting up a jump and somebody skates behind them, actually. Easier to stop on the picks than to swerve away.
Maybe it has something to do with the temperature of the ice. Of course, if I need to stop quickly to avoid a collision, I do a hockey stop or a snowplow stop.
I wonder if it's because they're cross-cut that I can't ride up on them as easily, or if it's just the toepick's overall size/shape.

MK Pros have straight cut picks. Coronation Ace has cross cut. Did you mean the Aces, or a different MK blade?

Jackson and SP-Teri are supposed to be good quality boot manufacturers. It's just a matter of which brand fits your foot best. Riedell is good too, and has a very different shape from Jackson/SP-Teri. And there is a ton of rinks in Chicago, so there must be a good skate technician. Visit a popular rink and ask the skaters/coaches there who they go to. My rink has a good skate technician in the pro-shop (yes-- unheard of! A pro shop that can mount properly and not sharpen off the toepicks!) so ask about that rink's proshop too.

[Isk8NYC]

Stopping incorrectly, or not being able to stop incorrectly, has NOTHING to do with the cross-cut vs. straight-cut toerake.
That only affects toe-assist jumps, supposedly providing better grip for takeoffs. It sounds like the rocker is so pronounced that you can't roll up as easily to find the lower toepick. Which is all that can touch the ice during a "backwards scratch stop." Any further forward up the toe rake, and you'd be falling face-first onto the ice.

Using your toepicks to stop damages the ice and is considered the sign of an inexperienced skater. If the ice is soft, it might just scratch, but when you hit it doing a fast spiral, even a "scratch" can cause a bad fall. On harder ice, it will shear off and create divots.

During a test or competition, it might merit comments from the judges, and most instructors/coaches will correct you if you do that during a lesson. It's amazing how loud that stop is when you're by yourself and the music isn't playing - that's what the judges hear during a test. To some, it indicates a lack of real skating skills.

You should be doing backward snowplow stops instead, so that if you do need to panic-stop, you don't dig trenches.

[icedancer2]

Stopping incorrectly, or not being able to stop incorrectly, has NOTHING to do with the cross-cut vs. straight-cut toerake.
That only affects toe-assist jumps, supposedly providing better grip for takeoffs. It sounds like the rocker is so pronounced that you can't roll up as easily to find the lower toepick. Which is all that can touch the ice during a "backwards scratch stop." Any further forward up the toe rake, and you'd be falling face-first onto the ice.

Using your toepicks to stop damages the ice and is considered the sign of an inexperienced skater. If the ice is soft, it might just scratch, but when you hit it doing a fast spiral, even a "scratch" can cause a bad fall. On harder ice, it will shear off and create divots.

During a test or competition, it might merit comments from the judges, and most instructors/coaches will correct you if you do that during a lesson. It's amazing how loud that stop is when you're by yourself and the music isn't playing - that's what the judges hear during a test. To some, it indicates a lack of real skating skills.

You should be doing backward snowplow stops instead, so that if you do need to panic-stop, you don't dig trenches.

Thank you for posting this response! I can't imagine stopping with my toe picks! Riding up on your picks is a way to slow yourself down and is a really really bad habit and hard to break once you've started doing this.

[GoSveta]

MK Pros have straight cut picks. Coronation Ace has cross cut. Did you mean the Aces, or a different MK blade?
Incorrect.

MK Pros have cross-cut toe picks.

I'm sitting here looking at mine, so it's impossible for me to agree with this statement :P

My old coach had some 10+ year old MK Pros on her 16 year old SP-Teri's, and they were cross cut as well.

I'm gonna go ahead and say they were never straight cut, or haven't been the past decade.

[san]

Yep--my 15 year old MK Pros and my new MK Pros that I can't use both have cross-cut toe picks.

[Isk8NYC]

Actually, both MK Pros and JW Coronation Ace blades have cross-cut toe rakes.

[doubletoe]

Just one more general comment about trying to adjust to new boots and new blades at the same time: When you can't deeply bend your knees and ankles in the boots because they are new and stiff, you are going to be skating with stiff legs and that will just multiply that rocking effect of the rounder rocker on your new blades (all new blades have rounder rockers than old ones that have been sharpened many times). In the future, you might want to try first mounting the new blades to the old boots and getting used to them while breaking in the new boots a little at home (which you can do by just sitting and bending in the boots or going up and down stairs in them).

[flyingcupcake]

Just one more general comment about trying to adjust to new boots and new blades at the same time: When you can't deeply bend your knees and ankles in the boots because they are new and stiff, you are going to be skating with stiff legs and that will just multiply that rocking effect of the rounder rocker on your new blades (all new blades have rounder rockers than old ones that have been sharpened many times).

ITA. Update on my new boots/blades combo that's related to this. My coach told me the same but in different terms -- what she said was, "Why are you waddling? That makes it worse. Stop waddling!" :lol: She then explained that I had to bend my knees to break in the skates properly, even if it hurts at first.

Anyway, one week later and the skates feel like they belong to me now. The blades were crazy at first to get used to, but now they feel normal. I still dunno if the Pros are different than they were 15 years ago, but I like the new ones I have now, new rocker and all. 8-)

Edit: Don't mean to imply that a simple knee bend will help you get used to a blade that just doesn't feel right to you. But for me, it was just poor breaking-in technique. I went from the softest boots and flattest blades to stiff boots and a round rocker, and started looking like Frankenstein on the ice. Coach corrected it, and now the boots are comfy (sorta).

[san]

Anyway, one week later and the skates feel like they belong to me now. The blades were crazy at first to get used to, but now they feel normal. I still dunno if the Pros are different than they were 15 years ago, but I like the new ones I have now, new rocker and all.

Yay! I'm so glad to hear that you've been able to adjust to the blades! I wish I could've adjusted to mine, but at least I found a model I can live with.

I also wish I could have gotten new boots and new blades at separate times, but I needed a new size in boots, so the blades had to be replaced at the same time. Fortunately the boots are breaking in quickly, so I'll have that necessary knee bend soon.

[icestalker]

Last I heard they were straight cut. I looked at the catalog and apparently they are now cross cut. But not that long ago they were straight cut. When I was shopping for my blades I kept reading things about how the only difference between Pros/Aces was the toepick. So they were straight cut up to about a few months ago.

Obviously I wouldn't ride up on the toepicks in a TEST! 8O8O
I do not use that stop as an emergency stop. I use snowplow for emergency stop while going backwards. I certainly do not dig ruts in the ice doing backward spirals, I have control over my toepicks and actually when I want to slow down going backwards I just edge the blade to the side in a slight snowplow stop. I don't use this stop all the time, usually only when I want to face the way I came from. I stop forwards most of the time, especially since my coaches usually have us step forward then stop after doing backwards footwork.

Glad your skates worked out, flyingcupcake. It is discouraging having to skate on new boots and blades. Have you tried backwards crossovers yet? I can never bend my knees enough to do them in new boots 8O

[GoSveta]

Last I heard they were straight cut. I looked at the catalog and apparently they are now cross cut. But not that long ago they were straight cut. When I was shopping for my blades I kept reading things about how the only difference between Pros/Aces was the toepick. So they were straight cut up to about a few months ago.

Obviously I wouldn't ride up on the toepicks in a TEST! 8O8O
I do not use that stop as an emergency stop. I use snowplow for emergency stop while going backwards. I certainly do not dig ruts in the ice doing backward spirals, I have control over my toepicks and actually when I want to slow down going backwards I just edge the blade to the side in a slight snowplow stop. I don't use this stop all the time, usually only when I want to face the way I came from. I stop forwards most of the time, especially since my coaches usually have us step forward then stop after doing backwards footwork.

Glad your skates worked out, flyingcupcake. It is discouraging having to skate on new boots and blades. Have you tried backwards crossovers yet? I can never bend my knees enough to do them in new boots 8O

I brought my MK Pro blades about 6 months ago. They were cross cut.

Did you miss the part about my coach's 10 year old MK Pros having a cross cut toe pick.

I don't mean to sound argumentative (I'm not trying to, but I am lucid enough to see that my tone may come off unintentionally harsh), but those blades never had straight cut toe picks.

You were probably looking at an MK Phantom or something.

Getting myself back on topic: I've notice I have to lift my heel (does that even make sense, seeing as how my heel is locked into the boot? lol) quite a bit to get on the toe pick. I may have my sharpener flatten my rocker a bit for me. He's good enough to take care of that... I think O.o

I think I will give it another month or so, though. I must confess that before I got these boots/blades I was skating around 15 hours a week, and I'm down to about 2 hours a week now.

I'm about to ramp it up heavily, though, so maybe if I give it time I'll actually get comfortable in them. I had to stop skating for a while because my blades were mounted incorrectly and I had some extreme foot pain. I just realized that I skated a 50 minute lesson (and my coach was in "I'm not playing around today" mode) and didn't feel a thing. I never knew what a liberating situation this would be for me!

[icestalker]

I brought my MK Pro blades about 6 months ago. They were cross cut.

Did you miss the part about my coach's 10 year old MK Pros having a cross cut toe pick.

I don't mean to sound argumentative (I'm not trying to, but I am lucid enough to see that my tone may come off unintentionally harsh), but those blades never had straight cut toe picks.

You were probably looking at an MK Phantom or something.


I'm horribly, terribly confused. I really am. A few months ago everything I remember reading clearly said the Professionals had straight cut picks, but now that I go back to see they say cross-cut. My memory simply does not make huge, unexplainable mistakes like this. Maybe I dreamed that the Pros had straight cut? I have done that before. Dreamt something. And believed it. Something to do with the way my mind is wired. I've had dreams like the rink going down in a hurricane then when I wake up and say something to my mother about when the rink is going to open up after repairs she just stares at me, and says "What hurricane?" Hmm, plausible explanation. Dreamed about surfing for blades online. At the time I was obsessed with blades 24/7, so makes sense. That's me-- cannot distinguish between real life and subconscious.

The lifting heel thing doesn't quite make sense to me. Even a 7' rocker is quite flat when you compare it against a flat surface. I've never had to lift my heel up to get on the ball/toepick, just had to shift weight. Then again, I'd have to skate on the Pros to feel what you mean. Do the Pros have a shorter/longer tail?

oh, and san? They leave big holes in the ice? Slightly concerned now.. I haven't tried anything with the toepick yet.. maybe it just depends on the ice temperature? I'll try a toe jump tomorrow and see what happens.

[san]

The lifting heel thing doesn't quite make sense to me. Even a 7' rocker is quite flat when you compare it against a flat surface. I've never had to lift my heel up to get on the ball/toepick, just had to shift weight.

This was a big part of the problem I had with the new MK Pros. I was terrified to jump edge jumps b/c the heel lift felt so extreme. Getting up over the rocker was very difficult for me.

And as far as the toe picks leaving chunks, I didn't have that problem with my old MK Pros. I had it with the new Coronation Aces that I tried for a few days. Those toe picks were very sharp compared to my worn out blades. My new Comets have straight cut pikcs, and feel like they're going to slip once I start jumping toe jumps--we'll see.

[flyingcupcake]

Thanks san and icestalker! I've run through all the moves in pre-bronze, so back crossovers are coming along good -- and by good I mean, I do them about as well as I did on the old skates. :lol: They felt super impossible the first time I tried them though. 8O Like I was going to fall forward.

I have to confess that during the transition period I did ride up on the toe picks -- just a weird motion habit I had in the old skates. My feet could move in the old boots, so I'd wiggle my toes to stay warm if I was resting near the boards. Nothing would happen though. Now if I do that in the new skates the whole skate moves and I'm on my toe picks!

I'm pretty sure Pros were always cross-cut -- my blades from 1995 and the new ones both have cross cut. That doesn't mean the toepicks are identical to Aces though even if both are crosscut-- maybe that's what people meant when they were comparing the toepicks on the two blades?

[icestalker]

Thanks san and icestalker! I've run through all the moves in pre-bronze, so back crossovers are coming along good -- and by good I mean, I do them about as well as I did on the old skates. :lol: They felt super impossible the first time I tried them though. 8O Like I was going to fall forward.

I have to confess that during the transition period I did ride up on the toe picks -- just a weird motion habit I had in the old skates. My feet could move in the old boots, so I'd wiggle my toes to stay warm if I was resting near the boards. Nothing would happen though. Now if I do that in the new skates the whole skate moves and I'm on my toe picks!

I'm pretty sure Pros were always cross-cut -- my blades from 1995 and the new ones both have cross cut. That doesn't mean the toepicks are identical to Aces though even if both are crosscut-- maybe that's what people meant when they were comparing the toepicks on the two blades?

I had beginner crossovers the first time I tried, lol. Barely getting my foot across. I also rode up on the toepicks a LOT. In crossovers, 3turns, spins, you name it, I toepicked it. After a week or so I stopped. I don't know if it was because the toepick was bigger or because I came up on the toepick due to the boot being too stiff to bend knees in.
I just step in place to keep my feet warm, if I can't do rocking horses. Be wary of slipping backwards.

My Aces have pyramid halves for their cross cut teeth. It's like a straight pick was cut perfectly in half, then the side that was cut was moved so as to face outside the blade. They aren't pokey and sharp either. Is that the same way your Pros look? They also look a bit shorter and chunkier, which makes me wonder how they are supposed to grip the ice better.

This was a big part of the problem I had with the new MK Pros. I was terrified to jump edge jumps b/c the heel lift felt so extreme. Getting up over the rocker was very difficult for me.

And as far as the toe picks leaving chunks, I didn't have that problem with my old MK Pros. I had it with the new Coronation Aces that I tried for a few days. Those toe picks were very sharp compared to my worn out blades. My new Comets have straight cut pikcs, and feel like they're going to slip once I start jumping toe jumps--we'll see.

My Aces feel like the heel is slightly flatter than my old blades, though I've always skated on 7'. I didn't get a chance to edge-jump but my back crossovers and stroking felt wonderfully secure. Now that I hear about your experience I'm glad I got the Aces rather than the Pros because I know I would be terrified of that heel lift, and I already have enough problems trying to spin on the rocker.

Oh, so it's not the cross-cut picks, it's the specific blade? Did your Pros ever do that when you first started using them? The picks on my Aces feel less sharp than the straight cuts on two other different blades. I don't have a different cross cut blade to compare against though.
Since the Comets have such a big flat rocker maybe that'll help compensate for the straight picks.

[san]

Oh, so it's not the cross-cut picks, it's the specific blade?

Well, it's hard to say, b/c I've done an awful lot of jumping on the old MK Pros. I don't remember even taking huge divots out of the ice with my old blades before though, like I was doing on the trial run with the Coronation Aces. And the chunks were from just doing jump walk-throughs, not actual jumps. Those picks just felt very sharp to me.

I am hoping that the flatter blade radius of the Comet will help with the toe-pick issue. Part of it is probably psychological, since the feel is so different. I'm going to have coach check my picking during tomorrow's lesson--maybe there's just something I need to adjust.

[icestalker]

Well, it's hard to say, b/c I've done an awful lot of jumping on the old MK Pros. I don't remember even taking huge divots out of the ice with my old blades before though, like I was doing on the trial run with the Coronation Aces. And the chunks were from just doing jump walk-throughs, not actual jumps. Those picks just felt very sharp to me.

I am hoping that the flatter blade radius of the Comet will help with the toe-pick issue. Part of it is probably psychological, since the feel is so different. I'm going to have coach check my picking during tomorrow's lesson--maybe there's just something I need to adjust.

They actually left *smaller* holes than my old blades. Even when I did a pivot it didn't leave a big hole. So it must just be your ice or technique or something. My ice.. I've only ever skated on two ice surfaces, so I think it's just medium cold. It's not very hard, but it's not soft at all, either.
It doesn't feel any different in terms of it gripping the ice. My coach was making me do toe loops at thirty miles an hour to get over my fear of toeloops at speed and it was a lot easier to "find" the pick and put it in the ice, if that makes sense.

The Comets will definitely help with the picking in, with their crazy radius.

[san]

Even when I did a pivot it didn't leave a big hole. So it must just be your ice or technique or something.

I guess it's the ice at my rink, b/c I did a toe loop today in the Comets and left a very dainty, lady-like tap in the ice. :D

And I'm loving the crazy radius on the Comets--it's so funny how different models suit different skaters.

[doubletoe]

Both straight-cut and cross-cut picks are good at digging into the ice for a toe jump, but when you have a rounder rocker (as in most brand new blades), you have to point your toes extra hard in order to make sure it's the top pick that goes into the ice, not the bottom pick or rocker, which can slip. Ask me how I know. :roll: Of course this is even more challenging if you are also having to point your toes in stiff new boots.

[san]

Oh so true, doubletoe. Toe pointing is not something my new boots have allowed yet, that's for sure.

[icestalker]

I guess it's the ice at my rink, b/c I did a toe loop today in the Comets and left a very dainty, lady-like tap in the ice. :D

And I'm loving the crazy radius on the Comets--it's so funny how different models suit different skaters.

I know I would hate the Comets. I already have to focus really hard to turn nicely on the ball of my foot in a 3turn. If I don't think about it, I end up on the toepick or skidding on the heel. The Comets would worsen that. And, of course, my spins need all the help they can get-- 7' rockers!

A dainty hole. I can see it now. :lol: