Stepping Down in Blades

[Isk8NYC]

I have to decide on which blades to put on my new boots. They're going to be ready soon, so I have to get back to Klingbeil about the blades.

I currently wear John Wilson Gold Seals because that's what I skated on when I was a competitor way back when. I was an ISI skater, Freestyle 5 by test level, with some of the elements from FS6/7 mastered. I really don't need Gold Seals anymore - I'm just demonstrating and coaching in these skates, with a bit of my own skating mixed in. I haven't really been skating for myself since my current skates started going haywire, but I want to get back to testing USFSA Moves and Freeskate.

I have a contingency plan because my current boots have brand-new Gold Seals on them that are the same size I need for my new boots. If I really hated whatever blades I put on my new skates, I could just swap the two sets of blades. (Well, have a pro shop swap the blades.)

I've tried to switch to Pattern 99's twice and hated them, so they're out.
I'm open to suggestions about other blades. I really like cross-cut toerakes, but I'm not doing that much jumping that I'll need a k-pick or parabolic options.

I'm could "step down" to Coronation Ace blades or MK Professionals. I know they have a 7' radius instead of the Gold Seals' 8' radius, so there will be an adjustment period. I think I'm okay with that and I wonder if the shorter radius would be better since I'm NOT doing doubles anymore. I love spinning, so the 7' might be a benefit.

I know that there are some newer manufacturers claiming to have knockoff versions of the Gold Seal. If the price is right, I might be inclined to try those.

I have to decide very soon. Any suggestions, ideas, warnings, other things to think about?

[sk8tmum]

Ultima now has a Gold Seal equivalent; they themselves state that it is. It's the Ultima Supreme. They are also offering a "30 day money back guarantee" - if you don't like them in 30 days you get them back. Check the Ultima site.

Our skate guy has been in the business for decades; he sharpens for Olympic and National level skaters; and he's excellent. He put our DD in Ultima blades - and he recommends them. We like that the sharpenings have significantly decreased in frequency due to the way that they are manufactured. We also like the much cheaper price point - !

[Isk8NYC]

Ultima Supremes - over $200 less than the Gold Seals. The description sounds like Gold Seals, too with the cross-cut picks and the side honing. That's tempting - okay, it's on my list.

While I was checking those out, I saw these Ultima Lite blades:

http://www.usaskates.com/images/figureskateblades/jalite70F.jpg

I love the way they look, but I don't know anyone who's wearing them.
Jackson/Ultima says there's no competitor blade to compare them against, which means they didn't clone an existing blade's profile, right?

8' rocker, cross-cut picks, under $200 with a 30-day guarantee. I'll put it on my list for now.

I did notice, in scoping out other skaters' blades, that the Ultimas (including the Matrix) have very blunt tails at the heel end. They're not tapered or rounded off - just *chopped* at a 90-degree angle. I don't think it matters - all I use the heel end for is pivots and posing. It just caught my eye...and hand! ouch!

Any reviews on the Ultima Lite blades?

[Skittl1321]

I considered ultima lite when I got my paramounts- I don't remember getting very positive reviews, though I ultimatly decided to get them, and only ended up not getting them because the pro-shop screwed up...

I went from Gold Seals to lower level Paramounts. Other than a break in period, I didn't notice any difference. The rocker is the same. The toe picks are different, but without doing advanced jumps, that didn't make a difference to me. I was only in the Gold Seals because they came on the boots.

[RachelSk8er]

I've worn Ultimas for quite a while, and I noticed that the steel their blades are made of seems to hold sharpenings much longer than other brands, and for some reason they even seem a little easier to skate on when they are on the dull side (despite the pretty shallow hollow on my Ultima blades). It became really obvious again when I went back to MKs on my new skates. With the amount of skating I do now (which hasn't changed), I need my MKs sharpened about every 3 weeks. I was going around 6 weeks between sharpenings in my Ultimas, usually a sharpening came when I realized I had a competition in a week and should probably get around to having them shaprened (or I was going to be near my skate shop so I might as well get them sharpened), and I probably could have gone a little longer. Actually, my Ultimas are going for their first sharpening since the week before the Wyandotte competition, which was held on January 20. Granted, I've worn them a lot less since I got my new skates a month ago (now I only wear them for dance), but that's still a long time.

Obviously that saves you money between less frequent sharpenings and the longer life you get out of the blades.

[kayskate]

I'll throw in a good word for MK Pro. They are very affordable and IMO an xlt blade. I have never used anything but. I think they are great for spinning. I have learned just about all the spins in the book on them. I also used to do doubles on them. No doubles these days, but that is me, not the blades. I recommend them to anyone who needs a good affordable blade for multipurpose skating. I have also done dance in them w no probs.

Kay

[mintypoppet]

I have Ultima Lites and I like them. After adjusting to the rocker difference, I can't say that I notice much of a difference between these and my old MK Pros.

The tails are very slightly shorter than my old blades, and I like the taper to the end - I'm less inclined to splat when I stand on them. The picks are much sharper (very spiky!) The retailer told me that they aren't suitable for heavier skaters, nor big jumps - they can break - but at ~110lbs and single jumps, they suit me.

[sk8tmum]

DD has Ultima Lites, in fact. They are in terms of rocker, picks etc Coronation Aces. She loves them; they are far lighter, and she's in a size 7-1/2 boot, every bit of reduced weight helps.

We did have some issues with coaches however - the back of the blade looks very "pointed" and there was some fear/concern that it was dangerous. They aren't - but, due to optical illusion, they look very much like they could pierce you.

Sharpenings last forever with them. And they draw a lot of attention as they look absolute unique and very pretty on the ice.

[sk8tmum]

I have Ultima Lites and I like them. After adjusting to the rocker difference, I can't say that I notice much of a difference between these and my old MK Pros.

The tails are very slightly shorter than my old blades, and I like the taper to the end - I'm less inclined to splat when I stand on them. The picks are much sharper (very spiky!) The retailer told me that they aren't suitable for heavier skaters, nor big jumps - they can break - but at ~110lbs and single jumps, they suit me.

5'9", 130 pounds, huge single jumps, some doubles - no issue with the blades. They also have sort-of solid sole plates (they are cross cut instead of being "open" - and that's a help in terms of preventing them from pulling and potentially loosening with the heavier torque of a bigger skater. Our skate shop had no problems with putting them on my DD; and they actually are very conscious of the power of her jumping, and accomodate that in terms of her skate boots.

We're probably going with the Supremes for my other kid on the next blade change; it was an easy sell to the coach when she saw the price point vs Gold Seals, and the 30 day guarantee ... end of discussion.

[ibreakhearts66]

Just popping in to give another good review for Ultimas. I'm not in them, but only because the coach I was supposed to get them from at cost got injured and I desperately needed new blades. Most of the skaters I know are now going into Ultimas, generally the Elite (a skater with all of doubles including 2axel) and Freestyle (skater working on all of his triples). Everyone I know loves them and they're far more affordable than other blades.

I've heard of one skater in blades called "Gold Queens" which are supposed to be like Gold Seals, but I have absolutely no idea where you'd buy them.

[sk8tmum]

Per Ultima:

Supreme = Gold Seal, Gold Star
Elite = Pattern 99
Freestyle = MK Phantom
Legacy = Coronation Ace, MK Professional
Protege = Comet
Dance = John Wilson Dance, MK Super Dance

Lites= no equivalent blade; the Coronation Ace reference comes from our skating supplier, not from Ultima itself. Otherwise, I'm just taking this off of a brochure that they're publishing on their website.

[caffn8me]

Lites= no equivalent blade;John Wilson/MK is about to launch a range of lightweight versions of existing blades with carbon fibre mounting plates. The new blades also have different edge treatment to extend life between grinds.

At the moment there's nothing on the website to show the new blades but the UK launch was advertised as being in March but that seems to have slipped. The worldwide launch is scheduled for May. Details will be found at http://www.iceskaterevolution.com/ when they get their act together.

Sarah

[Query]

Isk8NYC: With all the students you've had, I would have though you knew what you liked. And you have enough experience to know that each skater has their own opinions anyway, that don't correlate well skater to skater.

Unlike you, I use dance blades, and don't jump very well.

But FWIIW, I still use the old Ultima Matrix mount system system, with the removable (relatively inexpensive and easy to replace) blade runners. I tried Ultima Dance (which I still use), Ultima Supreme blade runners, and I bought but haven't tried Ultima Synchro. The Supremes work poorly for me - I kept crossing the tails - but I had no business trying to skate on high end freestyle blades in the first place. I tried them mainly because my coach skated ice dance on freestyle blades, but they didn't work well for me.

The new Ultima Matrix blades are their high end very lightweight blades, in the same styles as their ordinary blades. (The old Matrix system was also light, but the new ones don't have replaceable runners, so end up being more expensive.)

I loved best the MK Dance blades. They are the fastest figure skating blades I've tried, by a large margin, and still have enough of a toe pick to handle what jumping I could do. MK dance toe picks at least look more agressive than most freestyle toe picks. And I personally prefered the 7' rocker of the MK Dance to the 8' rocker of the Ultima Dance. But after buying out all the old Ultima Matrix runners in my size Rainbo had left, I don't feel I can afford to buy MK Dance blades again.

Materials are different. Last I knew, MK and Wilson use high carbon steel on most of their blades, but Ultima mostly uses stainless steel. According to a sharpener I favor, for the first few hours after a sharpening, high carbon blades stay sharper, but after that, stainless stays sharper. A couple sharpeners I respect claim that Ultima blades (which I think are laser cut) are shaped and sharpened more consistantly than MK and Wilson. I've personally had no problem skating on new unmodified Ultima blades. Paramount has sometimes used titanium, which is both light and corrosion resistant, but I don't know anything about them.

I would have thought you already knew what you liked. In any event, someone like you who sharpens her own blades can substantially alter the way a blade performs, without removing more than a few hundredths of inch of metal, by playing with the sweet spot. If you haven't tried that, it's a lot of fun. E.g., emphasizing a sweet spot makes it a lot easier to spin and twizzle, as long as you have the control to spin there, and it gives you a definite spot on the blade you can feel, so you know when you are in the right spot. With a little work, I'm sure you could also shorten or lengthen the distance you have to roll to reach the toe pick.

When I skated on Coronation Aces, they seemed very slow. I think they glided about half the distance as the MK Dance I used next. They also got quite hot in use, which has not happened to me on later blades. But I was a relative beginner then, and it is possible the heat and inefficiency came from lack of blade control.

[Isk8NYC]

I think you have me confused with someone else: I don't sharpen my own blades other than stoning rentals in the hopes of getting a student through the lesson, lol.

I like my Gold Seals, but I don't need Gold Seals (or the big price) anymore, hence the original post.