buying new skates. What to do?

[TVC15]

Hi all. This is my first post on this board so let me say in advance I'm grateful for your help in this matter. I only recently started skating again after about 30 years(I'm 50 now). I try to skate at least once a week. I consider myself a serious recreational skater and I want to get better! So heres my question.
I have decided the best skate for me at this time is the Jackson freestyle.
But should I get the complete skate package which seems to have a less than steller blade, it an ultima mirage, or just buy the boot and have my exhisting blades, MK single star, installed? The blades I have are old but in good shape and getting new blades and new skates is not at the moment an option. Or is there something in the $250- $300 range I'm missing?
Thanks
Paul

[RachelSk8er]

I don't know a lot about Jackson skates, but if you have a decent pair of blades that have life in them and you like them, go ahead and use them. If blades are properly cared for (covered and not put where they can rust), they can sit around for years. I just slapped a pair of blades I've had sitting around the house for 10 years onto some new boots. You can always replace the blades later on.

[GoSveta]

MK Professionals are like $240.

http://www.mkblades.com/

[Isk8NYC]

The Jackson Freestyle can be purchased boot-only, but most pro shops have to place an order for the boots because they don't keep them in inventory. If you think about it, that makes sense since experienced skaters know to order and lower-level skaters want immediate satisfaction, lol.

Order the boots you want and wait until they come in before addressing the blade situation. You might find that your old blades are the wrong length for your new boots. Blades should be the same, or 1/4" shorter, than the boot sole length.

I have purchased Jackson Freestyle boot-and-blade sets for my DDs because the price was right. I had the blades pulled, the holes plugged, and a better blade mounted by a good skate tech. It left me with a pair of stock blades that I had no use for, so they sat in a box until the girls outgrew the boots. I swap the blades back before I find a new home for the skates and either reuse the better blade or sell it separately. (I've never gotten better prices for skates with upgraded blades on eBay.)

If you do have blades replaced later on, be sure that the fitter plugs the holes and makes new ones for the new blade. When the fitter reuses holes, it can torque or bend the blade. (As I found out the hard way.)


MK Pro and JW Coronation Ace blades usually retail for around $215, but there are bargains to be had for as little as $180 new.
http://www.tidewaterice.com/blades.htm

[stacyf419]

No recommendation on skates, but I love your screen name (Bowie fan, I assume?) ;)

[sk8tmum]

If you're male, which assumption I'm making from your name at the end of the post, sorry if I'm in error, you likely have to have them ordered in anyways, as it's rare to find guy boots in stock. So, order the boot only ... and that way you won't have problems with existing holes, etc.

Why, out of curiosity, have you chosen the Freestyle? The price you are listing there, is the price for the boot and blade combo and I think you're on the high side, depending on where you live.

[GoSveta]

Oh, after getting some sleep it looks like the OP is looking for a boot+blade combo for 250-300 USD.

Hrm, I don't know much outside of recreational skates that cost that much.

I know the Reidells I started in were like $200'ish, but their recreational boost tend to be soft and break in extremely easily (and break down in the process) for the male models. I wouldn't recommend them.

If you do get a rec boot, try to find a fitter, and try to get something a bit stiffer than Reidells, that way you won't break them down so hard, as fast.

Lighter people who skate very little tend to have less issues with them, though. If you don't skate a whole lot, maybe they will work for you.

[TVC15]

Yes I do agree I feel I need (and want) a stiffer boot. Thats why I'm thinking about the Jackson freestyle as opposed to a recreational skate. I also have a medium width foot so I don't think reidells are that good for me. I do believe I found someone good to fit me in Manhattan. West side skate and stick. And while I now I can find the boots, or package online cheaper, Fromm all I've read about West side I think they will do the most professional job with fitting and blade advise. I just want to go in there prepared with as much information as possible. Thank you all again. Keep it coming. This is most helpful!

[TVC15]

No recommendation on skates, but I love your screen name (Bowie fan, I assume?) ;) Yes, he showed me to look to the future and always stay curious about everything.

[Virtualsk8r]

Actually - the best advice is to try on a few different brands of boots. Since you are going to a skate fitter anyhow, this is your most sensible choice. As a coach, I ALWAYS ALWAYS suggest that my skaters try on a few brands in the price range they feel comfortable with -- and then decide which boot feels the best. A good fitter shoudl always suggest the best fitting boot for you - not the brand they have in stock...at least if they want to keep their good reputation.

You may find that Riedell do fit you ....or even Graf ... or Wifa.....but unless you try, who knows?

Jackson fit fat or thin feet - it just means the fitter has to order the correct width....and same for Riedell. Different models of the same brand often have different features aka - wider or thinner toe box, or ankle cut-out for bending etc.

I can't imagine how anyone gets the correct fit and size by ordering online.....even with the size charts that Harlick, Jackson, and Riedell have online, my skaters have ended up with a boot either bigger, skinnier or wider than the recommended size on the charts.....and have loved their fit.

[sarahspins]

or just buy the boot and have my exhisting blades, MK single star, installed?

I wouldn't necessarily rank single star over the mirage... I had double stars on my first "real" pair of skates (which were Risport Super Cristallos and all wrong for my feet, but that's another issue) and I quickly moved up to professionals with my next pair of boots. There just wasn't enough toe-pick on them for me on the single stars. I loved the professionals.. those were great blades (I moved up to Phantoms when I was doing doubles).

I wanted to say though, I moved to Jacksons from custom SP-Teri's and my old blades fit my new boots which are almost a full size bigger (my feet changed after 3 kids). If I had stuck with SP-Teri and gotten boots in the right size, I would have definitely needed longer blades. I lucked out with the Jacksons needing the same length blade as what I had.. I was prepared to buy new blades, but since mine still had a lot of life left I'm glad I didn't have to.

There is a chart on Kinzie's Closet that lists the blade lengths for various boots. https://www.kinziescloset.com/Jackson_Sizing_Charts.html

I skate in the Elite Plus, but I *love* my Jacksons.. I wish I had known about them earlier in my skating career :)

[GoSveta]

I'm talking about the Riedell recreational skates. They are horrible.

I don't think I know anyone here who upgraded to Riedell Freestyle boots from their recreational skates. Almost every skate tech within a 300 mile radius says to stay away from them. To quote one. "no one serious about skating wears Riedell boots."

Maybe they're great for someone who weighs 80 lbs, but for adult-sized males they won't last long. Unless you're willing to skate on risky equipment, you'll be spending more money rebuying those skates every 3-5 months than you would if you had just gone with a decent lower-end freestyle boot. Then you will hae 100 issues and habits to correct, which you picked up from skating in those flimsy things.

The male models give nothing but issues to those I know who have worn them (including myself). On top of that, Riedell has a problem with sending out stock boots with the blades off-center (and once you sharpen them, there is no returning them). I had to drive 5 hours each way to get to someone who was willing to move a blade that was very obviously off-center to the naked eye. I know of others who have gotten their skates that way.

Trying costs money, unless the skate shop is in the rink (or next to one) and they are willing to let you go skate around in them. Sometimes you have to go by reputation. 7/10 times they have to order the male models in, anyways.

My old coach wore SP Teris. Her boot was dated 1996, and they were still strong (even tho they looked a bit rough). $500 for a boot that can last upwards of 10 years, or $200 for a boot that will last 6 months before they began putting your health at risk? Seems pretty cut and dry to me!

[sk8tmum]

I'm talking about the Riedell recreational skates. They are horrible.

I don't think I know anyone here who upgraded to Riedell Freestyle boots from their recreational skates. Almost every skate tech within a 300 mile radius says to stay away from them. To quote one. "no one serious about skating wears Riedell boots."

Maybe they're great for someone who weighs 80 lbs, but for adult-sized males they won't last long. Unless you're willing to skate on risky equipment, you'll be spending more money rebuying those skates every 3-5 months than you would if you had just gone with a decent lower-end freestyle boot. Then you will hae 100 issues and habits to correct, which you picked up from skating in those flimsy things.

The male models give nothing but issues to those I know who have worn them (including myself). On top of that, Riedell has a problem with sending out stock boots with the blades off-center (and once you sharpen them, there is no returning them). I had to drive 5 hours each way to get to someone who was willing to move a blade that was very obviously off-center to the naked eye. I know of others who have gotten their skates that way.

Trying costs money, unless the skate shop is in the rink (or next to one) and they are willing to let you go skate around in them. Sometimes you have to go by reputation. 7/10 times they have to order the male models in, anyways.

My old coach wore SP Teris. Her boot was dated 1996, and they were still strong (even tho they looked a bit rough). $500 for a boot that can last upwards of 10 years, or $200 for a boot that will last 6 months before they began putting your health at risk? Seems pretty cut and dry to me!

WOAH! Riedell is one of the better of the skate brands out there. Johnnie Weir, Joannie Roachette, Kurt Browning ... those are just a few of the top skaters who wear them. They have a wide range of models, from entry level ones at less than $100 to ones that - well, you can spend a few rent payments on them. Are the factory mounted blades sometimes off? Yes, as they are in most boot and blade combinations, IMHO. It's just a fact of buying blades that are not mounted by hand by experts - and, actually, I''ve seen a few mounted by expert ones that are also off centre!:lol:

Freestyle is not a Riedell boot, by the way. It is a Jackson boot.

[Virtualsk8r]

I see that West Side Sports advertizes it stocks or sells Harlicks, Graf, Gam and Jackson skates. You should have a good assortment to try on. Someone of your age should look for a very comfortable boot in the mid price range, as your foot has quit ( I hope) growing....and a good boot will last you forever as a recreational skater. Stiffness is not all its cracked up to be...find a boot that feels snugly secure but allows flexion, and fit it with a Coronation Ace or Four Aces or MK Professsional or Ultima freestyle blade.

BTW in reference to the above poster- GoSveta ---I have skaters from the beginner level to the national level in Riedell and Jacksons...male and female... and have never had major issues with the Riedell or Jackson that the companies have not fixed. However, I don't overboot my skaters and prefer to have the boots rebuilt rather than inflict hip, knee and back injuries that too stiff a boot can cause. We learned the hard way. Parents would rather pay for a well fitting softer boot and then have it replaced or rebuilt -- than to pay for doctor, physio bills and time off the ice with boot inflicted injuries.

The Riedell 1500 is a fabulous boot for both international and other skaters (Joannie wears it...you can tell by the slot holes over the baby toe!). Sure it breaks in easily, which is why I have some of my adults at the bronze level wearing it -- as well as my triple jumpers!

Also: any skater who weighs more than about 120 lbs will eventually break down a skate.....and if you are a male skater of any sufficient height and weight...you will definitely break down just about any skate simply by wearing it, therefore a recreational skate on a 5'10" male who weights about 180 lb (for example) will break down their boot in a short time....Don't blame the skate all the time!

[sarahspins]

My old coach wore SP Teris. Her boot was dated 1996, and they were still strong (even tho they looked a bit rough). $500 for a boot that can last upwards of 10 years, or $200 for a boot that will last 6 months before they began putting your health at risk? Seems pretty cut and dry to me!

Before my Jacksons I was still skating in my 1997 Sp Teri's. My right boot was twisted and both were too small for me... but sure, they "held up" if you want to put it that way :P

At this stage in my life, I'm happy to spend $400 on boots that may not last me as long as my $800 SP-Teri's did, because I don't need that much boot anymore. My Jacksons were WAY easier to break in too.. which is important to me now that I'm a bit older and have other health concerns which prevent me from WANTING to potentially damage my feet for life...

[GoSveta]

Freestyle is not a Riedell boot, by the way. It is a Jackson boot.

I never said Freestyle was a Riedell boot, and I don't wear Jacksons.

I was using the terms Recreational and Freestyle to differentiate between two boot types.

The way you would say "Dance Boots."

And I've still not heard anything great about Riedell skates. Most people move out of Riedell around here after they break apart the cheap ones.

The great thing about Riedell boots are that they aren't too difficult to break in.

Those skaters mentioned don't skate in stock boots.

@ VirtualSk8r: I didn't say to overboot the OP or any other skaters. I said to look for better entry-level skates than Riedells. A flimsy boot is just as bad a one that is way too stiff for a skater.

[GoSveta]

Double Post :/

[renatele]

Most people move out of Riedell around here after they break apart the cheap ones.


Well, maybe that is exactly where the problem is.

[Virtualsk8r]

Cheap skates are cheap skates---- you don't figure skate with pond skates and you don't pond skate with your figure skates. Recreational skates are designed to be used a few times a year by skaters who have little experience or skating skills. To skate round and round during public skating, for example, as a social thing.

Figure skates are built be be used by skaters - recreational or not - who want to skate more than just laps and more than once or twice a month. Anyone with a desire to learn basic figure skating skills and is planning to skate for an extended period of time learning the skills - should not buy cheaper recreational skates, especially adults. Better to pay a bit more and get a pair of skates designed for the abuse frequent figure skating demands.

Dance skates are lower cut boots, with shorter blades, designed for ice dancing -- not jumping. Some synchro skaters use dance boots and blades as well. No one makes a recreational dance boot....and the softer the boot, the better for dancing, especially the compulsory dances.

Young children can get away with using cheap recreational skates during the first few badges on a learn-to-skate program. They need the flexibility and smaller toe picks. Especially those that take a once-a-week lesson.

RE: Riedell boots falling apart.....all my top national level skaters use Riedell STOCK boots!!! A stock boot is availabe with modifications for everyone. Some of my skaters have narrow heels and wider toes, so they order a 2A 3A boot, which is still a stock boot. A custom boot is made using drawings of the foot, then a mold is made and the boot is constructed using that foot mold of the specific skater. This labor-intensive produce costs more than a stock boot, and the construction is generally still the same, except the boot fits the skaters foot exactly (usually if they have problems like high arches, one foot narrower, bunions, etc.).

I think that the issue you have with Riedell skates is that the models available to you in your country are strictly recreational low end, that adult skaters are purchasing with the expectation that the skates will provide the same service as a pair of real figure skates. Perhaps you should be asking your skate supplier to import figure skates designed to support adult skaters rather than the occasional pleasure skater.

[sk8tmum]

RE: Riedell boots falling apart.....all my top national level skaters use Riedell STOCK boots!!! A stock boot is availabe with modifications for everyone. Some of my skaters have narrow heels and wider toes, so they order a 2A 3A boot, which is still a stock boot. .

ITA. We have numerous competitive skaters locally; Riedell is rapidly becoming the boot of choice, especially since the company has markedly improved their boot line in recent years; I've not heard a single complaint about them, including from coaches who were hardcore Klingbeil/Harlick/etc fans but are now agreeing that the Riedell product is excellent.

Their entry level rec boots for LTS are also excellent, as they give a range of price and type that allows someone to start at a reasonably good price and then move up (or not) as their needs and interest changes.

My DD has just replaced her GoldStars with the new 875 model; after 2 years of hard skating in a fully adult body, her skates are still in good shape but are starting to hit the end of their lifespan. She's keeping the GoldStars for coaching and for public skating :) but putting the new boots on the ice for training and competing.

We also get the split width, and it works well. The 875 is very impressive, and we are pleased to see that we get "included" features that we have to pay big $$$ for our other skater, who skates with a different skate make in a fully custom skate that costs us a great deal more than "stock" Riedells! (As we all know, different brands of skates fit different feet ... my skating crew are perfect examples of that ...)

[Bunny Hop]

I don't think I know anyone here who upgraded to Riedell Freestyle boots from their recreational skates. Almost every skate tech within a 300 mile radius says to stay away from them. To quote one. "no one serious about skating wears Riedell boots."

Maybe they're great for someone who weighs 80 lbs, but for adult-sized males they won't last long. Unless you're willing to skate on risky equipment, you'll be spending more money rebuying those skates every 3-5 months than you would if you had just gone with a decent lower-end freestyle boot. Then you will hae 100 issues and habits to correct, which you picked up from skating in those flimsy things.:?? Umm, my husband, who is 6'4 and weighs over 200 pounds, has been in Riedell Gold Stars for the last three years. Whilst not their elite model, they're definitely not a recreational boot either, and they show no sign of breaking down. He's been skating in them 3-4 times a week, on long sessions. I have Riedell Gold Medallions myself, which are at the lower end of their 'freestyle' range. I don't do jumps, admittedly, but I'm no lightweight either, and I've also had no problems with them. They were easy to break in, but I was going down from a boot that was too stiff for me, so that was pretty much inevitable.

Lots of people have had a bad boot experience, for one reason or another, that puts them off that particular brand (in my case,this would be Gams), but that doesn't mean that brand is automatically bad for everyone. Everyone needs to find a brand of boot that suits them, and sometimes this might fly in the face of general advice. For example, I've read many times that Riedells don't fit wide feet thing, but my wide feet find them perfectly comfortable. You can't tell without trying - and sometimes buying skating boots can be a bit hit and miss, particularly if you don't live somewhere where you have the luxury of trying several different brands.

[Query]

If you haven't figured this out by now, boots and blades are matters of strong individual preference, so don't expect agreement. I've met people who were happy with boots from all the major manufacturers, and people who were very unhappy with boots from all the major brands, I believe mostly because they used a fitter who did a poor job. Finding the best fitter you can find (ask around!) up front is the best way to reduce problems. Push the fitter as far as he/she will go to make the boots snug but comfortable, then see my page below to make them perfect.

TVC15, you are a close drive to the Klingbeil (http://www.klingbeilskatingboots.com/) factory store, where you can get fitted and adjusted (and if desired, custom boots made) by the master boot maker, which is usually the best way to go. But last I checked, they charged $650/pair.

You have told us nothing about how good a skater you are. E.g., will you jump in the next few years, and to what level? Will you ice dance with deep edges?

My skates have lasted 10 years and thousands of hours of skating, and are only starting to break in (not down) - and that only because I took extreme measures to make them break in - repeated application of heat, moisture, chemical and mechanical means - because my boots are way too stiff for my skating level. It is better to get boots that will only last you a few years, but which your skating level will break in enough to conform to your feet as you move. Going too stiff or getting misfit could give you a lot of pain and blisters, and maybe arthritis, burst muscle tendons, or malformed feet, etc., as well as difficulty skating. Getting everything right will be almost perfectly comfortable, will create no medical issues, and you will skate better.

If you get a good boot fitter, he/she can tell you whether your old blades will fit the new boots, and whether they have a enough life in them to be worth while. If you are happy with the blades you have, you may be able to make do.

Your coach, if you have one, should also be a good source of advice on boots and blades, specific to your skating level and style - but coaches develop strong personal preferences too, which might not match the way your feet are shaped.

By the way, in addition to trying multiple brands, also try multiple models within each brand, as different models have different shapes. If you find something close, try several pairs of the same model - they are hand made and fit differently.

[GoSveta]

I think that the issue you have with Riedell skates is that the models available to you in your country are strictly recreational low end, that adult skaters are purchasing with the expectation that the skates will provide the same service as a pair of real figure skates. Perhaps you should be asking your skate supplier to import figure skates designed to support adult skaters rather than the occasional pleasure skater.

I didn't know that I mentioned living in another country.

I live in the United States.

I also have good skates (Klingbeils), so the Riedell business is all but history to me. My fitter can order in almost any Riedell, Jackson, SP-Teri, and Graf boot - among one or two other more obscure (at least to me) brands.

[TVC15]

Thank you all again for the educated and passionate views on boots and blades. Its funny how easy it is to get caught up with all of your enthusiam for your equipment. I started to consider a trip to Klingbeil! then I realized my position and budget. Query, thank you for for very helpful post. To answer your question about ability. I am 50 years old. 5'8" 150 LBS. In pretty good shape(but not great shape) I skate once a week, twice a week maybe 4 or 5 times a year. I doubt if I will ever jump, but hey, you never know! I was once speaking to an instructor at a local rink and he said I seemed to have a good grasp of the basics. I can crossover forward and back. tee stop. I would land do a fair 3 turn. I would love to get better at edging! while I don't want to buy cheap, I also don't want to buy too much boot for my potential potential. So I'm still mulling my options. Any other ideas I would love to here them. Also, anybody know a good fitter in or near Manhattan? Or is my choice of manhattan skate and stick a good one?

[dbny]

Unless your budget really cannot accomodate custom Klingbeils, don't rule them out right away. Something to consider is that Klingbeil customer service is superb, and their boots are a fixed price, so you can get all the bells and whistles you want or need at no extra charge. You can go back any time for tweaking, also at no extra charge.

That said, do go and try as many different brands/models as you can, since there is no one boot that fits everyone properly. West Side Skate and Stick has a very good reputation, and the Jackson Freestyle, if it fits you well, is a good choice, either with or without the blade package.

[Query]

Now everyone is going to yell at me for saying this!

But with that skating frequency, I might keep whatever I had, or rent if those felt better. I mean really - $300 for equipment to do something 4 - 10 times a year. If you keep it up for a year that is $30 - $75 each time, plus session and drive or ride cost.

Most of what a boot does for you is to prevent you from turning an ankle enough to injure. If boots are still stiff enough to prevent that, be they yours or rentals, and they don't hurt, why get something fancy?

Think of other fun things to do with $300. Taking a pretty girl to dance a couple dozen times would be at least as much exercise.

[Isk8NYC]

You misread the post, Query. The OP says they regularly skates one day a week, but a handful of times each year, they skate a second time during a week. The $300 will be more cost-effective than renting in the long run.

Unless you have podiatry issues, I don't see the need for custom skates. I think the original idea of buying a Jackson Freestyle boot and seeing if the single star blades will fit, is a good one. If not, then upgrade to a double star or similar.

Be sure to try on the skates before you buy them to be certain you'll be comfortable in them as they'll last a long time.

[Mrs Redboots]

Lots of people have had a bad boot experience, for one reason or another, that puts them off that particular brand (in my case,this would be Gams), but that doesn't mean that brand is automatically bad for everyone.

Exactly - as I love my Gams and would think long and hard before even considering another brand!

[JimStanmore]

Just for reference, I am early 50's, 6'2" and 185lbs. I started skating again last August after a multi-decade break and bought Jackson Freestyles last November. I skate 10 to 13 hours and am working at getting all of my single jumps consistent. Unfortunately, I let myself get talked into 11-1/2's when I know I usually always wear 10-1/2's. In spite of the size problem (boots that are too large break down sooner) the only way that I learned my botts are broken down is that my coach told me. BTW, the slight sloppiness from size always bothered me, but I thought it was because I was so inexperienced. I heat molded them at home 3 or 4 times to get them as just right as I could.

Anyway, I love my Freestyles, but I am moving up to Elite Plus with Ultima blades if my budget allows. Otherwise, I will get correct size Freestyles. My jumps are relatively high - 1' and usually .5s. I also work hard on deep edges for footwork and dance. So, I have put my boots through their paces and they held up pretty well.

The Jackson Freestyle is not a bad boot for $225 (got mine at Kinzie's Closet last time) and they hold a sharpening very well.

[lateskater]

I'm really glad to find this wonderful forum and hope it's okay to add a variation to this question here.

I'm a middle-age, 130-pound female casual skater who's taken figure skating and ice dancing lessons, and got up to doing a half-flip and a basic waltz before taking a five-year break for grad school. I'm getting back into skating on my own now, and am realizing that my skates hurt my feet more than ever.

I have Reidell silver stars, which actually are very nice boots for my level of skating -- not too stiff but very supportive. My problem is that the balls of my feet are D-width and my heels are B-width. The two skate-shops I went to when I was buying my Reidells insisted that they could stretch my boots and it was optimal for them to feel tight. But my feet feel like they've been folded in half every time I go out.

I've never even had regular street shoes stop hurting by having them stretched. I can only wear D-width shoes or B-width shoes that have rounded toe boxes.

Also, I don't tie the laces to the last spot because if I do that, the boot tongue digs into my shin when I lean forward. Is that a function of being not too tall?

Does anyone have any recommendations? I'd be willing to pay up to $600 for custom boots if my feet would stop hurting, but perhaps there are semi custom options that would work as well. My blades could be transferred if they are the right length. Thanks!

[´*~·Meje·~*`]

Hi there :)

I have the Riedell sliver stars, in a split width. Sounds like this might be a good option for you? It would mean you could get them to suit your D ball & your B heel.

[lateskater]

Hi there :)

I have the Riedell sliver stars, in a split width. Sounds like this might be a good option for you? It would mean you could get them to suit your D ball & your B heel.

Wow, I didn't know that existed. How did you find them? Did your skate shop offer them as an option?

Perhaps they weren't available when I got my skates in late 2000 or early 2001.

[´*~·Meje·~*`]

My Riedel dealer told me it was an option when I was getting fitted, and the single size wasn't fitting correctly in both the ball and the heel.

I got mine back in 2007. I was being fitted by a an experienced fitter though, not someone trying to sell current stock, he was also a coach, and knew the importance of a correct fit, so was happy to order them in for me, rather than sell me what he had on hand.

[lateskater]

The funny thing is, they were ordered for me, as far as I was told.

Which brings up my next questions:

Does anyone recommend a particular skate shop pro for fitting boots and blades within 60 miles of Central New Jersey?

I looked up Westside Skate & Stick that someone mentioned here, and the Manhattan shop (which is closer than the Long Island shop) looks like it's in a high-rise. Do you need to have ice next to the shop to be able to test whether the boot and blade are aligned right?

Edited to add: I just talked to the nice guy at Skate & Stick and we're going to visit him today.

[Query]

Does anyone recommend a particular skate shop pro for fitting boots and blades within 60 miles of Central New Jersey?

Feet feel folded in half? Sounds like a Japanese foot binding custom. I'm no doctor, but that can't be good.

60 miles may be too small a radius to find the best. Think of all the pain and maybe medical problems you might be able to save, over many years.

Klingbeil (http://klingbeilskatingboots.com) in NYC may or may not be in that radius. Last I knew, they charged $650 for custom boots. They make them themselves at the store, so they have the expertise to measure you right, and to do an expert final adjustment. They back them very well, especially if you buy them at their store. For example, if a few years later, they need work, they may do it free. Maybe they are more expensive now.

On the other hand, you don't need such a super-fancy high end skate for what you describe. Were I you, I would tour all the stores I could, and see if someone has something in the $300 range that fits as is.

If it is done right, stretching usually works up to about 1/2 to 1 shoe size - but doesn't last very long, especially if you are widening the toe box. In some ways, it is better to get something wide enough for the widest part of your foot, and stick stuff in to make the rest fit. Even better to get boots that fit right all over in the first place. But feel welcome to try the stuff in my page (below) to try to stretch your current skates better.

You may be able to get away with changing nothing more on your current skates than taking out or replacing the insoles with something paper thin (which gives you more space inside), and adding tape near the thinner parts of your foot! Well worth a try, only takes a few minutes to do yourself, and is basically free.

As for ordinary street shoes - I'm not sure if they are as pretty, but there are lots of stores that specialize in making custom shoes for people with "diabetic feet", who say they can make you shoes that fits quite precisely, if what you find in the stores doesn't make you happy. Or make your own moccasins - they sell kits in craft stores.

[Query]

Oops, this was a duplicate post. Sorry.

[lateskater]

Feet feel folded in half? Sounds like a Japanese foot binding custom. I'm no doctor, but that can't be good.

60 miles may be too small a radius to find the best. Think of all the pain and maybe medical problems you might be able to save, over many years.

Klingbeil (http://klingbeilskatingboots.com) in NYC may or may not be in that radius. Last I knew, they charged $650 for custom boots. They make them themselves at the store, so they have the expertise to measure you right, and to do an expert final adjustment. They back them very well, especially if you buy them at their store. For example, if a few years later, they need work, they may do it free. Maybe they are more expensive now.

On the other hand, you don't need such a super-fancy high end skate for what you describe. Were I you, I would tour all the stores I could, and see if someone has something in the $300 range that fits as is.

If it is done right, stretching usually works up to about 1/2 to 1 shoe size - but doesn't last very long, especially if you are widening the toe box. In some ways, it is better to get something wide enough for the widest part of your foot, and stick stuff in to make the rest fit. Even better to get boots that fit right all over in the first place. But feel welcome to try the stuff in my page (below) to try to stretch your current skates better.

You may be able to get away with changing nothing more on your current skates than taking out or replacing the insoles with something paper thin (which gives you more space inside), and adding tape near the thinner parts of your foot! Well worth a try, only takes a few minutes to do yourself, and is basically free.

As for ordinary street shoes - I'm not sure if they are as pretty, but there are lots of stores that specialize in making custom shoes for people with "diabetic feet", who say they can make you shoes that fits quite precisely, if what you find in the stores doesn't make you happy. Or make your own moccasins - they sell kits in craft stores.

I walked out of Westside Skate and Stick with new Jackson Freestyle skates today. They are a C-width ball and a B-width heel, and even then the proprietor had to bake them and punch them out in the width of the ball of the foot, the outer toes and ankle. Here's a not-so-great cell phone pic of the new skate on the bottom and the old Reidell skate on the top:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4614338494_eac9f6129b.jpg

I am wearing them as I type this. It looks like I have man feet now, but at least they don't hurt.

It turns out my Reidells were 7 wides to start with, but they were never all that wide even with a few rounds of punching out the same items we worked on today.

The Jacksons were far less expensive than I was thinking I'd need to pay for custom skates. I can't really say if I'll be perfectly pain free until I break them in, but it seems worlds better already. If my feet are still not in good shape, I may need to literally step up to Klingbeils.

Now I need to find a skate-shop person who's willing to align my blades after watching me skate. I hope that's not too weird of a request!

[Query]

Lateskater: Your new skates look very pretty. Hope they work well.

For a fee, many pro shops will align them for you, but will charge if bought elsewhere. Or do it yourself.

[lateskater]

Lateskater: Your new skates look very pretty. Hope they work well.

For a fee, many pro shops will align them for you, but will charge if bought elsewhere. Or do it yourself.

Thanks! I have an appointment for Wednesday at Igloo in Mt. Laurel, NJ, as I'm not handy and I'd really like these skates to be done right.

It took me two hours to screw up the courage to call and ask, as I thought they'd be mad I bought my skates elsewhere. However, it sounds like it must be a normal request.

Which reminds me, perhaps I should put them back on tonight to keep them from shrinking before I can skate in them. Is there a science to that?

[icestalker]

I'm talking about the Riedell recreational skates. They are horrible.

I don't think I know anyone here who upgraded to Riedell Freestyle boots from their recreational skates. Almost every skate tech within a 300 mile radius says to stay away from them. To quote one. "no one serious about skating wears Riedell boots."

Maybe they're great for someone who weighs 80 lbs, but for adult-sized males they won't last long. Unless you're willing to skate on risky equipment, you'll be spending more money rebuying those skates every 3-5 months than you would if you had just gone with a decent lower-end freestyle boot. Then you will hae 100 issues and habits to correct, which you picked up from skating in those flimsy things.

The male models give nothing but issues to those I know who have worn them (including myself). On top of that, Riedell has a problem with sending out stock boots with the blades off-center (and once you sharpen them, there is no returning them). I had to drive 5 hours each way to get to someone who was willing to move a blade that was very obviously off-center to the naked eye. I know of others who have gotten their skates that way.


Riedell is one of the better skate manufacturers out there. They get a bad rap because people use the rec skates incorrectly and because people just don't have the right shape foot for a Riedell, and that's their own fault in the first place. My Riedell rec skates actually held up for eight months doing stuff levels above what they were supposed to be used for, and they're still in good shape but I've bought new Riedell skates that are appropriate to my level. I love them, and my mom uses my old rec ones for Basic type stuff now, and she weighs 50 pounds more than me, and they're STILL in good shape.

All skate manufacturers end up with off center blades, it's just because the blades weren't hand mounted by a specialized technician, because that would drastically raise the price.

They only have issues if they didn't fit you right in the first place. I would advise not relying on the experience of only a few people, every skater has a different experience with skates depending on their unique physical characteristics, weight, etc.

[lateskater]

I agree with IceStalker. Even though my Reidells were too narrow for my unusually wide feet, I felt they are well built. Then again, I got a pair that was sturdy-yet-flexible enough for someone who was working her way through the basic and freestyle figure skating levels. They lasted many years looking and feeling just broken-in in most regards. The only dent was in the tongues because I was tying my laces unevenly to make up for the wideness at the fronts of my feet.

I spent 30 minutes on the ice today with my new Jackson Freestyle skates because I just couldn't wait until my blades are aligned at Igloo tomorrow to see how they felt. Even with the left blade clearly pointing in a direction other than straight, these slightly shorter and slightly more rockered blades are a dream come true. My Reidells have Wilsons, and the Jacksons came with Mark IV's. It could just be that the 3/8" sharpening is something I've needed all along. I'll report more after my alignment.

[techskater]

I don't think I know anyone here who upgraded to Riedell Freestyle boots from their recreational skates. Almost every skate tech within a 300 mile radius says to stay away from them. To quote one. "no one serious about skating wears Riedell boots."

That's interesting because there are MANY, MANY skaters at all levels (adult and standard track) in the 2010s here in Illinois. That includes the 2009 Championship Gold Ladies winner, several kids who went to JNs last year, and a couple kids who went to Sectionals. I'd call all of those folks "serious about skating". There are three boot fitters in the area an if you have the right foot for a Reidell, they are putting you in the 1310s and the 2010s.

[isakswings]

Riedell is one of the better skate manufacturers out there. They get a bad rap because people use the rec skates incorrectly and because people just don't have the right shape foot for a Riedell, and that's their own fault in the first place. My Riedell rec skates actually held up for eight months doing stuff levels above what they were supposed to be used for, and they're still in good shape but I've bought new Riedell skates that are appropriate to my level. I love them, and my mom uses my old rec ones for Basic type stuff now, and she weighs 50 pounds more than me, and they're STILL in good shape.

All skate manufacturers end up with off center blades, it's just because the blades weren't hand mounted by a specialized technician, because that would drastically raise the price.

They only have issues if they didn't fit you right in the first place. I would advise not relying on the experience of only a few people, every skater has a different experience with skates depending on their unique physical characteristics, weight, etc.

I agree! My daughter skated in Riedells until last year. We went with Jackson because of cost. She likes her Jackson skates but didn't have a problem with her Riedell skates before. I skate in Riedell and love them. Most skaters in my daughter's club wear either Riedell or Jackson skates. Most of these kids are quite serious about skating and one girl skates at a high level and wears Riedell boots. There are other manufactuers, but Riedell is a widely used and trusted brand that I would never look down upon.

[Stormy]

That's interesting because there are MANY, MANY skaters at all levels (adult and standard track) in the 2010s here in Illinois. That includes the 2009 Championship Gold Ladies winner, several kids who went to JNs last year, and a couple kids who went to Sectionals. I'd call all of those folks "serious about skating". There are three boot fitters in the area an if you have the right foot for a Reidell, they are putting you in the 1310s and the 2010s.

Yup, same here in my area. I have seen a trend towards Jacksons in the past couple years, although I despised my Jacksons and have learned the hard way to never, ever stray from Reidells again. But there are plenty of people in the 1310 and 2010s. I just bought a pair of 2010s last weekend. They should be in on Friday and I can't wait to skate in them. I was hesitant that they'd be too much boot for me, but it was the same 2009 Championship Gold ladies winner that convinced me to get them. :bow:

[sk8tmum]

Riedells used to be avoided like the plague: they were stiff, out of date, etc. About 5 years ago (roughly) - they retooled and rethought their line, and they've been doing so since. We were in the newly designed GoldStars: first on the rink - and the feedback from coaches and other skaters was first surprise, then very positive impressions. Frankly, we loved them, better by far than the Jacksons that they replaced. We are now in the T875 that replaced the GoldStars; tiny mitey-mite is in the new 133's with the new Quest blade. From the old GoldStars to the new 875, huge improvements in terms of weight, fit, design. Riedell seems to be continually rethinking ... and as for the 133's, the quality and features are incredible in a basic entry-level kid's boot and blade set (a roll-top collar, for pete's sake! and nice little blades with reasonable toe-picks, all at a very competitive price, far better than the comparable Jacksons or Gams).

Since my DD and her first pair of Riedells hit the ice 2 years ago, we are now seeing over 25% of the skaters in them, and they are increasingly taking over the market. Every year, there seem to be more and more using them at all levels; everyone wearing them is happy; and they are now the "boot of choice" at the skate fitters. The issue with width is a non-issue: you can order split widths, wide widths, etc, thus, the "narrow foot" Riedell challenge seems to be resolved.

Plus, they're pretty: they have a nice finish on the leather and the sole, and they hold up well to wear and tear and don't look battered and torn up after a lot of hard wear ...

[Query]

It's odd.

I once went to place that sold roller skates (quad and inline). They stocked many different Riedell boots. Mostly the same as low end ice skating boots; the owner claimed most roller skaters don't want something as stiff as ice skaters like. They had many different models, even though I'm a guy with relatively small feet, a category ice skating stores don't usually stock for.

In most shoes I am a 6 or 6-1/2. Depending on the model, some of the skates fit me best at size 4, some at 6, some at 7 or even 8 - because they had very different boot shapes. And I don't think any of them were different nominal widths, they just made different assumptions about how a foot is shaped.

I don't know if that is still true, but it seemed like Riedell was trying to cover almost everyone - it's just that stores couldn't stock all the models and sizes.

But if that is at all representative, saying that a particular brand can't fit someone with wide toes (like me), or wide or narrow heels or arches, or higher or lower foot tops, may not be accurate - maybe most figure skating stores really can't afford to stock all the models the major brands make.

And now that they let you separately specify the width in 2 or 3 individual parts of the boot, no ordinary store can possibly stock all the sizes. Maybe there should be a few big stores, as there are with ordinary shoes, that stock everything, so people with fitting problems can go there. That might be better than paying outrageous prices for custom boots that sometimes don't fit either.

Maybe if you have trouble finding boots that fit as is, you should try the roller skating only stores too, even if you'd need to pay someone else to mount the blades. (Note: some roller skates come pre-mounted with roller chassis, and would be hard to adapt to blades.)

[Mr. Fan]

And now that they let you separately specify the width in 2 or 3 individual parts of the boot, no ordinary store can possibly stock all the sizes. Maybe there should be a few big stores, as there are with ordinary shoes, that stock everything, so people with fitting problems can go there. That might be better than paying outrageous prices for custom boots that sometimes don't fit either.

I'm not sure even that (a big store that stocks everything) would work for adult men. When I got my last pair of boots, I was told that even if I ordered a strictly "stock" boot, no mixed sizes at all, it would still not be made under I had ordered it (and thus have a long delivery time). In other words, even the manufacturers don't carry adult men boots in stock, they only make them after they know they'll sell them.

I was strongly considering Reidells just because I could drive to the actual factory and hopefully get fitted there by the people who should know best.

I also considered customs. With SP-Teri at least, when you order a custom, it WILL fit right even if it takes several modifications (maybe even total rebuilds) to accomplish it. At least that's what the dealer told me.

In the end I ordered an SP-Teri split-width, and took a chance on it fitting right. Once I got used to the deeper heel pocket and got my heel all the way back where it was supposed to be, it did.

Brad

[sk8tmum]

We go in; they measure; if they don't have them in stock, they call Riedell; they arrive within about 5 business days if Riedell has them on the shelf, they arrive in about 3 weeks if they have to be made.

It's been pretty easy so far :) add to that our habit of going looking for boots about 6 weeks before we plan to use them, and we're good :D

[dbny]

Almost every skate tech within a 300 mile radius says to stay away from them. To quote one. "no one serious about skating wears Riedell boots."
:lol::lol::lol: Right, no one except Kurt Browning, Jeremy Abbott, Joannie Rochette, Jozef Sabovcik, Rachael Flatt, and Johnny Weir, to name just a few. You are a real card!

It's odd.

I once went to place that sold roller skates (quad and inline). They stocked many different Riedell boots. Mostly the same as low end ice skating boots; the owner claimed most roller skaters don't want something as stiff as ice skaters like.

Nothing odd about that at all. Think about it. Roller skaters (I used to be one, in Riedells) balance on a plate with 4 wheels, 2 in front and 2 in back. This is inherently more stable and more supportive than a single thin blade down the middle.

[Query]

I was strongly considering Reidells just because I could drive to the actual factory and hopefully get fitted there by the people who should know best.

I thought all Reidell skates were made at an inaccessible factory in China? If that's not true, where is it?

Roller skaters [are] inherently more stable and more supportive than a single thin blade down the middle.

I'm an idiot. Of course you are right! I guess speed skaters get away with less height because their rocker is flat enough (sometimes completely flat) that more of the blade is in contact, whereas we usually have one very small point along the blade in contact. Even in-liner roller skaters usually have two wheels in contact... Yes!

[sk8tmum]

Only their lower-level boots are made in China. The upper level ones are made in Red Wing.

[Purple Sparkly]

I have been in SP-Teri for years. I switched to them from Reidell in 1997 or so because the skate shop I went to for new skates recommended them. It was a reputable skate shop that was recommended by many people in my area. I don't think there was any specific reason to switch from Reidell, and I don't recall trying on anything other than SP-Teri in that visit. I do recall that the two pairs of Reidells prior to my SP-Teri were ill-fitting, but I attribute that entirely to a poor fitter and does not necessarily reflect on Reidell.

Skate manufacturing has definitely made huge improvements in the last 13 years. I know that Reidell is a lot better, as well as SP-Teri and Jackson. I don't know that Harlick and Klingbeil have continued to make adjustments to their boots as the other major manufacturers have. A new pair of either brand looks pretty similar like a new pair from 10-15 years ago, at least on the outside.

I have never skated in Jackson and I haven't worn Reidell since I switched, but I would recommend Reidell over Jackson. Many coaches at my rink put their skaters in Jacksons, but the ones I have seen were very stiff and looked uncomfortable or broke down very fast. Reidells just look so much more inviting to feet. If I had to leave SP-Teri, I would go to Reidell. I have thought about trying them again, but I just can't afford to buy an extra pair of boots right now!

[kayskate]

To the person who needs a combo width:
If you are willing to pay for custom, you can get a mold made of your foot. Harlick has a mold package that can be mailed to you or your fitter. They make your own pattern based on the mold. They also take measurements. I'm sure every company does this. In my exp, this gives an excellent fit. I've had 4 pair made from my pattern over the yrs. I've had such good luck, i would never change my approach to getting new boots. I've been comfortable in my new customs in as little as 30 minutes spinning and jumping. I recommend it highly.

Kay

[Mr. Fan]

Only their lower-level boots are made in China. The upper level ones are made in Red Wing.

Yup, Red Wing, Minnesota. If I take the scenic route to Minneapolis I drive right by the building.

[sk8tmum]

I
Skate manufacturing has definitely made huge improvements in the last 13 years. I know that Reidell is a lot better, as well as SP-Teri and Jackson. I don't know that Harlick and Klingbeil have continued to make adjustments to their boots as the other major manufacturers have. A new pair of either brand looks pretty similar like a new pair from 10-15 years ago, at least on the outside.!

Klings are lighter now; they have added new "options" such as the goalposts and that on the tongue; and they still make the customs to whatever you want. Plus, they have stock boots now, don't know if they always did - ???. I think they've added in a dance boot too. They've also added a super-lite version below the S1, and other lightweight options in their custom boots.

Anyway, child 2 (the only one not in Riedells) - loves the Klings, would never change them, and we find them a tremendous value for the dollar in terms of what you get for customs. Instant breakin, amazing customer service, and they look "neat" on the feet due to the design. Plus, they wear and wear and wear ...

[sk8tmum]

To the person who needs a combo width:
If you are willing to pay for custom, you can get a mold made of your foot. Harlick has a mold package that can be mailed to you or your fitter. They make your own pattern based on the mold. They also take measurements. I'm sure every company does this. In my exp, this gives an excellent fit. I've had 4 pair made from my pattern over the yrs. I've had such good luck, i would never change my approach to getting new boots. I've been comfortable in my new customs in as little as 30 minutes spinning and jumping. I recommend it highly.

Kay

Riedell has custom widths no problem, if you go more than 2 steps in difference, I think you pay like $25 or something ... otherwise, it's free (the proud parent of an A/AAA Riedell skater).

[JimStanmore]

As far as Jackson Freestyles being uncomfortable, my research around various boards found the opposite. In fact, I heat molded them myself and had very little break-in problems - I was coming from rentals. I did leave the top hook unlaced for about 4 weeks, though. I posted about their being too big earlier and that problem did not surface until they were about 4 months old. Prior to that, the heat molding had them fitting like a glove without any tight spots, rubbing or slipping.

[Query]

This is off-topic, but I wish to expand my posted list of custom skate boot makers that let you visit the factory for a better fit and hopefully easier business dealings in the event of problems. So far I have

Klingbeil (http://klingbeilskatingboots.com), New York City, NY, USA

Harlick (http://www.harlick.com), San Carlos, CA, USA

Riedell (http://riedellskates.com), Red Wing, MN, USA

SP Teri (http://www.spteri.com), San Francisco, CA, USA

Do you folks know any other skate makers let you do that?

Incidentally, do they all let you be personally fit by the master boot maker, and do they all let you visit again for free for final modificaitons? AFAIK, all of the above offer a money-back guarantee if you are unsatisfied - if you happen to know, do the ones you folks add do that too?

After a bad experiences from a poorly fit pair (not at the factory), I've put a lot of effort into figuring out how to modify boots to fit, but at the cost custom boots sell for, I think it is fair to expect they should do whatever they have to to make them fit perfectly without end-user modification, and that the manufacturer should back the fit and product without question, Visiting the master boot maker himself or herself seems the best approach.