aarrgh! boot fitting woes

[Streak]

(Apologies in advance for an epic length post)

So, I bought skates last night, and I think I just got screwed over by the only fitter in my area :x ..He is a legend around here; very highly regarded and I thought it would be better to try the skates on than to gamble with buying them over the 'net.

As it happens, I may have been better off buying online anyway, because even though I told the fitter that my (wide) feet were miserable in the narrow A width Riedell 910 LS's he brought out for me, he insisted that his measurements showed that I should have sufficient length, and that the width issue could be dealt with through punching out some spots and then heat molding. I wish I had INSISTED on ordering in the next level width (and not just politely requested it), but since he was totally convinced that this size would work, I hesitantly deferred to his judgement. Before I knew it, he'd already punched out some spots (but not nearly enough, and not even in the right places, sigh), heated them, and was helping me get them on for the custom molding process.

During and just after the molding, they felt the tiniest bit better. I've heard over and over from experienced skaters that some discomfort, even a LOT of discomfort, is normal during the break in period, so with that in mind, in addition to having an expert fitter tell me these were fine, I very reluctantly deferred to his experise, paid for the skates and brought them home.

Currently: whatever benefit was gained from the customizations seem to have totally disappeared. My feet are so ridiculously cramped, it is excruciating, and my toes literally cannot move at all. My left arch cramps up within minutes of putting the skates on and stays that way until I take them off... and for that matter, it's still tender now. If I move or flex my foot the wrong way, I get another charley horse in my instep.

I haven't been able to reach the fitter yet today, but has anyone else dealt with something like this? I really am convinced that I need at least the medium width, but is it possible that THIS boot could be widened enough manually to work for me?

And, since these have been customized, will he even agree to an exchange, or am I stuck with these? I know that $300 is cheap for figure skates, but for ME it is a LOT of money... I had to really tighten the belt financially and forego other things to buy these skates. There is no way I can pay even more to get the correct size if these can't be altered. And of course, that would also mean that I essentially threw $300 out the window.

This is so frustrating, and I'm furious with *myself* for leaving the shop with those skates against my better judgement. The total commute is just under 2 hours, which is far enough to be a real hassle. In my own defense, I'm not experienced in buying skates and I knew that SOME pain is to be expected, and besides that, I thought it prudent to trust the expert.:roll: Sigh.

[Virtualsk8r]

Any reputable boot fitter will guarantee fit for at least 30 days. Sometimes the fitter is correct with the fit and you have to break the skate in a bit to see. Too loose a fit at the beginning will result in a sloppy foot once the skate is broken in.

I have skaters who regularly have stinging arches, cramping etc. whe they get their new skates - usually Riedell 1500's - but after a week or to of competitive skating, they love the fit.

That said - your boot fitter shold be informed of your pain and be willing to punch, heat mold or whatever to get you comfortable. If, after a week or two of heavy skating, he doesn't offer to exchange the skates - I would contact your boot maker and see if they can help.

BTW Many of my skaters have used Riedells for years and even when they order a replacment pair - I have the boot fitter recheck their measurements against the Riedell chart and the foot insole. Often the boot that is indicated on the chart - is too big or too smalll when tried on the skater's foot, and my fitter plays with the sizes. That said - he has talked some into boots that were too narrow, too wide or too long at times - because he went by the chart or what was in stock. Now he has more experience and I trust him. Two of my pre-preliminary skaters are now in beginner Riedells and the toe box on the cheaper model actually fit the skater better than the more expensive one.

[BlueSkate]

I had a lot of problems getting boots to fit so picked up advice from a variety of sources. The main points were:

New boots should apply light pressure to your foot but shouldn't cause pain.
Stretching boots will weaken the leather and they won't last as long, it should only be done if you have bumps on your feet.
The easiest way to check fit is to take out the insole and stand with a straight leg - there is extra width/length within the boot but it should be roughly the shape/length of your foot.

I was given boots (Riedell 435) that were too narrow and they gave me pins and needles in my feet after 5 mins on the ice. I checked the insole and it was half the width of my foot at the top! When I was wearing them I could feel my toes being pushed on top of each other and it was horribly painful.

I eventually got a custom width and had no pain at all breaking them in, the first day I wore them for a 2 hour session without taking them off once.

[Streak]

The easiest way to check fit is to take out the insole and stand with a straight leg - there is extra width/length within the boot but it should be roughly the shape/length of your foot.

The front (ball/toe area) of my foot IS much wider than the insole; my feet went well over the edges, even when sitting. But he saw this last night, and still seemed to think that those skates would be fine, despite my objections that they were really uncomfortable. I feel so stupid for not verifying in advance that I could get the skates exchanged free of charge if this size turned out to be too small.

I was given boots (Riedell 435) that were too narrow and they gave me pins and needles in my feet after 5 mins on the ice. I checked the insole and it was half the width of my foot at the top! When I was wearing them I could feel my toes being pushed on top of each other and it was horribly painful.

That's EXACTLY what is happening to me :(

I am also getting the pins and needles and some numbness, but not NEARLY enough numbness to compensate for the pain!

Virtualsk8r, I think this fitter did just what you mentioned - he talked me into buying these because he had them in stock and it was convenient. I asked if we could order in the proper width but he just sort of waved that idea off. He is obviously a good fitter since so many people love him, but I think for whatever reason, his measurements of my feet do NOT accurately reflect how much they expand when I'm standing. Maybe I should have stood only on the foot getting measured. I think I may have been resting more weight on the other foot that wasn't being measured.

I'm definitely going to tell him that these aren't working and give him a chance to alter them somehow, but this means at least two extra trips out of town, probably several, and I'll be obligated to suffer with these for awhile before I can even *consider* asking for an exchange. Of course, I know there's always the possibility that he'll be able to make them wearable, but I'm really not anticipating that.

I will probably end up losing most of my toenails over the next month :frus:

[Streak]

BTW Many of my skaters have used Riedells for years and even when they order a replacment pair - I have the boot fitter recheck their measurements against the Riedell chart and the foot insole. Often the boot that is indicated on the chart - is too big or too smalll when tried on the skater's foot, and my fitter plays with the sizes.

I think he might have been relying more on the chart and the numbers and less on how my foot actually was fitting in the boot. When I told him I thought they were too small, he said that the measurement (length) showed that I should have room in the front. So he was assuming the size was correct and that the only issue was width.

At this point I can't help but wonder if I actually need a half size larger, too, in addition to a wider width, but I realize figure skates are supposed to be snug, and without being able to actually try them on, I can't even hazard a guess.

Honestly, I hate that this is such a hassle... I thought the whole point of buying from an experienced, professional fitter is that you can try the skates on and know from the get-go whether they'll work or not. At the rate I'm going, I might as well just buy online and have the skates shipped right to my door. Saves me the time and gas money, and it also would save me the $25 fitting fee, which is waived if I buy his skates, but I'll have to pay it if I return these and don't repurchase from him. And if I can't try them on first because he doesn't stock them, it's as much a gamble as buying online, and what the heck is the point?

Question: if you pay for a fitting but don't actually buy skates from the fitter, is it considered a breach of etiquette to request a copy of the measurement chart? It seems reasonable that if I'm paying for the fitting I'd actually get to keep the measurements.

Anyway, I'm so sorry to be complaining... thanks to both of you for the responses! :)

[Query]

>>When I was wearing them I could feel my toes being pushed
>>on top of each other and it was horribly painful.

>That's EXACTLY what is happening to me

OMG. "Crossed toes" is the name of a severe foot deformity caused by this, often accompanied by all sorts of other foot health problems. Look it up. Way beyond minor league misfit. I wouldn't wear anything that does that.

If you stretch leather boots too much, they un-stretch themselves quickly. If you stuck them in a hot car, or somewhere else hot, that would explain it too - but your other posts suggest you are in North America, where it's cold now.

My page (below) has instructions on how to modify boots, and you could start by removing insoles to gain space, but it sure sounds like your fitter messed up. Slightly large is easy to modify. Substantially small will be a recurring problem that will never go away. If he claimed it should fit, I don't think you should have to deal with this yourself.

Some people are too quiet. Make sure he understands the problem is severe, including crossed toes. Any good fitter will do whatever it takes, and won't need to be threatened with a medical and legal liability lawsuit, nor will you have to complain loudly and frequently in front of other customers.

[Isk8NYC]

I think he might have been relying more on the chart and the numbers and less on how my foot actually was fitting in the boot. When I told him I thought they were too small, he said that the measurement (length) showed that I should have room in the front. So he was assuming the size was correct and that the only issue was width.

At this point I can't help but wonder if I actually need a half size larger, too, in addition to a wider width, but I realize figure skates are supposed to be snug, and without being able to actually try them on, I can't even hazard a guess. Try a different tactic: take the skates back and show him that the insoles are too small and narrow for your foot. Say that you think that the factory made a mistake since the sizing charts are correct. Be nice, but be firm that these were the wrong size. Part of your purchase included getting measured. If the sizing chart was wrong, the manufacturer should make good on the skates.

If you search for "Kinzie's Closet" on the internet, they have sizing charts for most manufacturers. It's possible that your fitter used the wrong measuring tool/size chart. I wear a size larger in Riedells than Jacksons, according to their measuring kit.

[Isk8NYC]

Virtualsk8r, I think this fitter did just what you mentioned - he talked me into buying these because he had them in stock and it was convenient. I asked if we could order in the proper width but he just sort of waved that idea off.

I will probably end up losing most of my toenails over the next month :frus:
Ridiculous - toenail damage should NOT happen with properly-sized skates, new or old. Don't wear the skates if you think that's the problem.

Stretching has to be done for 24 hours at minimum for the leather to "take."

There are some fitters who live by the "tighter is better" motto, but it sounds like he was clearing out his stock or didn't want to place an order for the right width.

Do you have a coach who can go with you?

A reputable fitter will make good on the deal. You wanted to buy skates for skating, not for toenail surgery, hahaha! If he's really being unwilling to order the proper size, you can take him to small claims court because the amount is under the limit. (Although it is still a lot of money.)

[doubletoe]

If there is one thing I have learned about figure skates, it is to NEVER compromise on boot width just to save money!

My feet measured between a B and C width in the ball, and my fitter recommended the B width, so that's what I had for my last two pairs of boots. I never realized that the boots being just a half width too narrow was what caused the arch cramping I had for almost the entire life of those boots.

I now have the same boots in a custom width: B+/C- width in the ball and just an A width in the heel (because I also discovered that once the cushion wears down, my heel slips up in the boot unless I get a narrower heel). A narrower heel width vs. ball width is a common problem, so don't ignore your heel measurement just to save money, either.

By the way, if worse comes to worst, as long as you bought them on a credit card, you can try returning them and disputing the charge with your credit card company.

[sk8tmum]

Riedells ARE supposed to fit quite tight in the first few weeks; they have a padding inside that moulds around the feet for a secure fit. We were warned of this by our boot fitter, later confirmed by others. Those who bought "comfy" Riedells ended up slopping around in bedroom slippers a few weeks later.

That said, we never had that type of problem with them. They were tight, and somewhat uncomfortable, but, after a couple of weeks they fit perfectly. Absolutely no foot problems at all, and that's with skating 6 days a week and year round.

Here's a link to Riedell's own fitting discussions. There are links to how to tell if they don't fit right. Might help a bit.

http://www.ice.riedellskates.com/Content.aspx?PageName=Fitting%20Guidelines

[sk8lady]

I had the same experience with my SP Teris. Bought them at a very well-known skate shop from a well-known fitter. Told him I thought I needed a wider skate and he thought they would be fine. After wearing them for several years and putting up with pins and needles and numbness I now have Morton's neuroma in both feet from wearing overly tight boots and will probably have to have an operation on the left foot as it has become extremely painful.

TAKE THEM BACK.

[Query]

Boots aren't manufactured to very high precision. It isn't always the fitter's fault.

One of the biggest differences between a good fitter and a bad one is that the good one will do whatever it takes to make things right. Be nice, don't yell, and don't tell everyone the fitter is awful, unless he or she won't fix the problem. Tell the fitter of the problem, and come in to have it fixed, as soon as possible. If he or she fixes it, praise him or her, and tell your friends.

If not, be sure to tell the manufacturer of your problem with that fitter.

Don't wear it for even one more skate. Like others said, you could end up with major damage to your feet.

[Virtualsk8r]

Excellent advice, Query! Too many skaters and coaches trash their boot fitter or their skatemaker without giving them a chance to make good.

[Streak]

Try a different tactic: take the skates back and show him that the insoles are too small and narrow for your foot. Say that you think that the factory made a mistake since the sizing charts are correct. Be nice, but be firm that these were the wrong size. Part of your purchase included getting measured. If the sizing chart was wrong, the manufacturer should make good on the skates.


Thankyou! That is a GREAT approach.. I was actually wondering how to handle this in a diplomatic way while still being firm about needing differently sized skates.

Query, I totally see where you're coming from, and I still think the fitter is a genuinely decent guy who will hopefully be willing to help me out. Even if he doesn't, for the sake of discretion and not burning bridges I won't be bringing it up around other people. I do think he might have been trying to clear out old inventory, as Isk8NYC mentioned, and thought that these could still be fine with the right adjustments. Unfortunately, it's not going to work that way, but I'm optimistic that he'll set me up with skates that fit.

Everyone, I (and my feet!) thank you from the bottom of my heart for all the input and suggestions; it was really generous of you to take the time to share your experiences with a bumbling beginner! You've all been extremely helpful and I feel a LOT better about this now.

[Streak]

Just an update,

I saw the fitter tonight and it was the easiest thing in the world... I didn't have to beg, plead, cry, demand, get obnoxious, etc :)

He's going to order in a pair of Jackson Competitors in my width and we'll go from there.

[doubletoe]

Wow, that is so nice! Things are usually more complicated than that if you've already mounted the blades. So glad you have such a helpful fitter! :D

[Streak]

Wow, that is so nice! Things are usually more complicated than that if you've already mounted the blades. So glad you have such a helpful fitter! :D

Thanks, doubletoe :)

This particular pair came as a package with the blades already mounted, so maybe that made things easier?

But yes, he was great about the whole thing, and I used Isk8NYC's approach and suggested that there might be a manufacturing issue. I credit this forum, and specifically contributors to this thread, for helping me feel confident enough to KNOW I needed something different.

I suggested the Jackson Competitors since so many people here have had good experiences with it, and it's apparently known to be good for people with wide feet. I went out of my way to let him know I was open to any suggestions he might have, if he thought something else might work better. But he agreed that the Jacksons would be a good choice. Now I'm just waiting, very impatiently for them to arrive (he said it would be 3 or 4 weeks).

I wish I could get them sooner since I just started the Alpha class, but I'll have to survive. Even after such a short time in "real" skates, my recreational skates seem very flimsy to me now (crossovers especially seemed much easier in the Riedells).

[Isk8NYC]

Free advice is overpriced: I made the mistake of waiting weeks before following up on a skate order that was never placed. Call on Monday and ask if there were any problems with the order, just to be sure they remembered to place it. (I'm becoming such a manipulator in my old age.)

[sarahspins]

Now I'm just waiting, very impatiently for them to arrive (he said it would be 3 or 4 weeks).

Unless your fitter ordered something that isn't in stock (like combo width or D+), they should get to the fitter from Jackson in only a week or so. So it might not be that long :)

[Streak]

Unless your fitter ordered something that isn't in stock (like combo width or D+), they should get to the fitter from Jackson in only a week or so. So it might not be that long :)

You were exactly right, Sarah! They arrived last Friday and I was able to pick them up right away.

It was obvious from the get-go that they are a much better fit for me than the Reidells, although I think I could have gone a half size up (I was right on the borderline between two sizes). But after they're broken in I might be glad I went with the smaller size.

I now totally understand why skates are often described as "cement blocks" 8O... the Reidells were actually a softer boot. But once I adjust to the new blades and break in the boots, I can see already that these will be a huge improvement over my recreational skates. I'm so excited! :D

[sarahspins]

Yay! I'm glad you go them quickly. I had the same "maybe I should have gone up half a size" with my Jacksons at first (I was also inbetween sizes)... but it only took a few weeks of skating to realize that they're just fine :) I was coming from skates that were a smidge too small (and too narrow) so I had fears that I was repeating history in a different brand of boots, but after they had been heat molded and I'd been skating in them a few weeks, the difference was amazing... they fit my feet really well and all of the fit issues I'd been having with my old boots were a thing of the past. I love my Jacksons, and I don't think I'll ever skate in another brand of boots.

[GoSveta]

OP: Go to another fitter. I've had a situation close to yours. Seems like some fitters like to forget you after they've made the sell. I drive 4 hours each way to get work done on my skates (even a sharpening) and I brought my second pair of skates elsewhere because I had a shoddy fitting from the guy here, who is the only one in the area. I'm almost tempted to ask you where you're from, but let's (please) not go there (why'd I even mention it, Lol).

Skating in badly fitted skates is not safe at all. And the Foot, Ankle, and sometimes Shin Splints and Back Pain that come with it makes skating very much less than fun...

EDIT: Oh, seems I'm late to the conversation.

On another note, when I got my Klingbeil boots (upgrading from badly fitted and easily broken down Stock Reidell Rec skates), I wanted to cry and quit on the spot. Those things felt like (my words) chasity belts on my feet, and the fact that the boot/blades were like half an inch shorter than the Reidells made me want to cry even more. I am still trying to relearn everything, but I think for the long term, it will work out just fine.