Was that costume legal? How can it be?

[VtSkateLvr]

I am speaking about the Russian ice dancers, but NOT the controversial "aboriginal" costume (I lived in Australia for a year and worked with aboriginal professionals in the national parks, so I am going to totally avoid that thread).

I am asking about the final (non-aboriginal) program where both of them have ropes on their bodies, incorporated into the costumes. these ropes were used to support the partner grabbing/supporting and who knows what-sing themselves etc. How on earth is this legal? Shall we now allow sling-shots for big jumps? Hammocks for when you are getting a bit tired? A hand hold via rope for a nice line that is much harder when done by, oh gee, an actual HAND HOLD?

I may be wrong, I confess to not knowing the rules, but as a life-long fan of skating, I was beyond perplexed by those supportive and useful costumes. Looked like cheating to me. Not what I wore as a tiny tot or adult at the rink!

[Isk8NYC]

They were creepy outfits - my kids asked if they were supposed to be haunted by ghosts.

They've done that routine earlier this season wearing those costumes, so I guess it is legal. Sandra Bezic said that she expects there to be a new rule introduced to the ISU regarding the use of costuming for holds, etc for next season.

It was innovative and risky. It seems like the Russians are the thrill seekers of figure skating, looking for an edge in competition through tricks like the quad and bungee skating, lol.

It seems to me that, if you're not allowed to swing a partner by their blades, this should have fallen under that category.

[RachelSk8er]

The costume rules are silent about this issue, they're the first ones to have tried it, so there wasn't much that could be done about it this season. I don't agree with it (I didn't get the hideous costumes or the program at all), but it wasn't "cheating" since they were not breaking any existing rules. I imagine the ISU will address this over the summer and put a rule in place.

[Patsy]

I wondered why they didn't just put a suitcase-type handle on her so he wouldn't have to be reduced to the ropes for slinging her around!

[Isk8NYC]

Too funny, Patsy.

[Virtualsk8r]

Not to open up the aboriginal debate here ---- but why were the Russian aboriginal costumes not given a deduction for excessive nudity? Controversy over their costume theme and choreography aside here --- the ISU rules state that men must wear pants and sleeves (brought in after Russian/Soviet skaters wore ballet tights (leaving little to the imagination , and sleeveless tops showing hairy armpits) and costumes are not to display EXCESSIVE nudity.

To me, a little use of beige fabrice to convey the idea of a little skin showing is okay - but when both skaters are wearing a blanket around their crotch areas to cover up their goodies, even if the beige fabric is not seethrough - is meant to convey the idea of excessive nudity.

And the fact that neither skater had a top on, with the exception of lines for ribs - also conveys the idea of topless nudity.

I remember much lower levels of skaters and sychro teams getting slammed for showing modest 'skin'.

Anyone else find this interesting?


BTW - the use of ropes on the costumes could be construed as another way to STRETCH the rules lol or get a GRIP on the situation or grab an opportunity before it slips through your fingers or lasoo your partner or tie em down Any others??? lol

[TreSk8sAZ]

But, the costumes weren't displaying nudity, it was creating the idea of nudity - and technically, they weren't trying to be "nude" anyway, they were trying for the painted symbols, etc. They were fully covered and you could in fact tell that they were fully covered as you could see the fabric and the bodysuits. The bodysuits were long-sleeved and went down to the skates, and they were also not see-through as some mesh/illusion fabric can be. Also, there were not depictions of where body parts should go, etc. - just the white symbols. Therefore they were not in violation of the rule.

[phoenix]

The "no excessive use of flesh colored fabric" rule is completely ignored these days, and I wish someone would get hit w/ a deduction or two to bring us back (a bit at least) toward the realm of good taste.

[Clarice]

The "no excessive use of flesh colored fabric" rule is completely ignored these days, and I wish someone would get hit w/ a deduction or two to bring us back (a bit at least) toward the realm of good taste.

The rule doesn't say that, though (at least in the USFS rule book). It says "Clothing must not give the effect of excessive nudity inappropriate for athletic sport." Nothing about flesh colored fabric specifically. We won't get into the part about it being "modest, dignified...not garish or theatrical in design". And that's in the rule pertaining to ice dance. Interestingly, there is a specific rule prohibiting accessories and props for singles and pairs, but not for dance. It just says that decorations on costumes must be nondetachable.

[Skittl1321]

Not to open up the aboriginal debate here ---- but why were the Russian aboriginal costumes not given a deduction for excessive nudity?

Possibly because (let's assume, for the sake of the arguement, they are authentic outfits - apparently their coach was carrying around a picture of aboriginals in similar costumse) it's not excessive for the folk dance they are portraying. It's not excessive if it's authentic, if anything they were MORE covered then many traditional dancers would be. (Don't know about australian aboriginals, but many african dances I've seen on discovery wear a whole lot less- especially the women. Think for a second how an aboriginal woman would keep that boob cover up- since it wasn't on her back at all)

Excessive nudity, IMO, would have been if they took a generally well covered folk costume and made it more revealing. But they didn't make anything more revealing in this case.


I'm more interested in why the firebird costume wasn't ruled theatrical. It was pretty much exactly what a ballerina would wear to dance firebird- a barely there bird costume.

[RachelSk8er]

I'm more interested in why the firebird costume wasn't ruled theatrical. It was pretty much exactly what a ballerina would wear to dance firebird- a barely there bird costume.

I agree. I don't think the aboriginal costumes could really be considered excessive nudity since that was a (bad) attempt at portraying an authentic look. Without going into whether the music/choreography/costumes were "wrong", what else could you really have dressed them in to do an aboriginal program?

I thought the Russian free dance costume with the painted nude material was worse (what was with the face airbrushed on her boob), as was that Firebird costume.

Maybe the nudity rule and its expectations are relaxed when it pertains to Russian dance teams? If they come out at least somewhat covered, it seems to be good enough. :lol:

But if we want to go there, I thought even Tanith's dress had a little too much nude material and not enough other fabric up top, too.

[Virtualsk8r]

So when is nudity - really nudity? Even though a skater can be covered completely with nude coloured fabric - they appear to be naked when viewed from the cheap seats in the arena, don't they? The message the costume is giving is - look at me, I'm naked!! And we've all seen someone naked so imagination takes over, thereby completing the naked illusion.

Now - what if a dance team comes out covered in black or brown or red body paint, in fact, what if they have firebird motives painted on their naked bodies - with airbrushed ruffles and sparkles etc. The illusion of being fully decently clothed is there, especially from the nosebleed seats in the rink, but the skaters are, in fact, naked.

Wonder when someone will test that?

[VtSkateLvr]

Thanks for everyone's input and knowledge. I was actually referring to the final dance costumes that had unabashed hold ropes etc., and hadn't even noticed the same on the "Aboriginal" costumes! That's what happens to me and my vision when the coverage is late at night LOL.

And Patsy, your idea of a suitcase handle is all too delicious. I can see some fun programs at the next exhibition show, with the pairs all decked out a la Samsonite, chucking each other across the ice. Tee hee!

Basically, they need to put in a rule against costumes having artificial aids to lifts etc. etc. Because those artificial aids make a mockery of the physical skills needed and shown by those who can DO IT.

[Isk8NYC]

Do you think the rope tricks were choreographed to accommodate the male skater's injury?

[phoenix]

Do you think the rope tricks were choreographed to accommodate the male skater's injury?

Yes! Probably. I had that same thought.

[VtSkateLvr]

If they don't pass some rules fast, ice dancing will become ever closer to Cirque du Solei with rope tricks and who knows what. Yes, performance is key, but artificial aids are wrong. Leave the rope tricks to the Vegas artists, as they swing and spin from the ceiling. Most entertaining indeed, but NOT skating!

[RachelSk8er]

Now - what if a dance team comes out covered in black or brown or red body paint, in fact, what if they have firebird motives painted on their naked bodies - with airbrushed ruffles and sparkles etc. The illusion of being fully decently clothed is there, especially from the nosebleed seats in the rink, but the skaters are, in fact, naked.

Wonder when someone will test that?

I think I saw that on an episode of Girls Next Door. They threw a party at the Playboy mansion where women were painted up like that. I wouldn't put it past a few of these teams...

I don't think costmes were quite as bad overall this time as it is in years where there is a Latin theme for OD and costumes tend to call for more skin showing (both bare and covered with nude material), like Torino in 06. The bare skin cutouts in the latin costumes really puzzle me...I know they look more authentic ballroom that way and large arenas that these skaters compete in generally aren't cold like normal rinks, but that would still get a little drafty skating around with half your stomach and back bare. Especially if you fell like every other team did in the OD in Torino. Brr!

[Virtualsk8r]

The bottom line here is -- injury or no injury--- the lifts the russian team did with the assistance of belts or ropes tied to their bodies should have been penalized in the GOE and level called for the elements. In fact, I think the judges were too generous with their marks for the Russian teams freedance overall. None of the other teams relied on aids to perform their lifts and spins. In fact, just how difficult were the Russian spins and lifts really? The idea behind a lift is that the athletes are putting themselves out there at the mercy of their partner and gravitational pull. Having something more substantial to hold on to is not difficult....it's cheating.

Are we now going to see pairs teams do no-handed death spirals, or overhead twists performed while the woman is wearing handles or something??

I bet dollars to donuts that the ISU is already formulating a rule to shut this down.

Big question here though - why didn't ISU deal with this issue when the costumes first appeared in a sanctioned competition???? Hmmmmm

[AgnesNitt]

I'd like to say that I liked the fact that Virtu and Moirer, and Davis and White the women looked like they had clothes on--dance clothes. Some of the other looked like they worked in a strip bar.

[trains]

The best I can say about the OD outfits is that they looked like gingerbread people. And who knows how gingerbread people do their folkdances - maybe they got it right! :) Seriously though, they couldn't even be specific enough to say which aboriginal group they were portraying. Australian? There are several aboriginal groups in Australia. None claimed this dance. Beyond that the costumes were costumes in the halloween sense - not skating outfits - and in completely bad and offensive taste. Did they think these costumes would help (or hide) their skating?
The freedance costumes were worse if that is even possible. Really the boob face was ridiculous but it worked - I hardly looked at their feet. The belts were not illegal by the letter of the rules but I bet they are by tomorrow.
Add to that unwashed hair and wearing your bright whities under thin white lycra.....Come on folks this is the Olympics.

[VtSkateLvr]

O.k., I said I'd avoid this aspect of the thread, but what the hey!

I have been to Australia 7 times, and worked in the national parks with Aboriginal cultural interpreters. I learned a few things, such as: There are well over 400 different Aboriginal groups, and their artistic styles alter radically! Aboriginal cultural knowledge tends to have three levels. The first is what you get as a newbie. The second level is as far as you get, even after many years. It is VERY rare for an outsider to get to the third level of clutural knowledge!

And, all the art, be it body painting or painting painting, tells a story on all three levels. Ask an Aboriginal artist the story and you will get a tenth of the meaning, and you should consider yourself lucky!

Where am I going with this? Basically I am telling you how offended I was by that revolting dog and pony show - ending with a NOSE RUB FGS! I cannot imagine how offended any Aboriginal would be :x And the ugly and should be illegal costumes the next night were worse than the norm for ice dancing, which is saying a lot.

I recommend that the russians stick with cossack wear and avoid luggage handles sewn into the clothes in the future.

[RachelSk8er]

Big question here though - why didn't ISU deal with this issue when the costumes first appeared in a sanctioned competition???? Hmmmmm

I don't think there was really anything that they could do this season. Don't rule changes have to be passed via a formal procedure of proposals and voting?

[AgnesNitt]

And what about this costume in the ice Dance competition? Warning this is a really awful picture. I mean bordering on NSFW. And it was at the Olympics. I thought excessive nudity was verboten. Apparently NBC refused to show this couple because they danced a 'dirty dance' to Schindler's list (heard it on the radio...that's all I know.

Here (http://guyism.com/2010/02/your-olympic-thong-of-the-day.html)

[Virtualsk8r]

:lol::lol::lol: AgnesNitt: I didn't watch all the dancers very carefully ...will go back and review the tape.

Thanks for the link. I just read an article this morning about Katerina Witt showing too much at the 1988 Games, which prompted ISU to bring in stricter rules about butt and hips showing, and about Phillipe Candilero skating 'Braveheart' with bare legs and a kilt.

Thought getting 'cheeky' was a thing of the past, given modern sewing technology, although the crotchiness of overhead lifts and spiral sequences still leaves little to the imagination --- but not this little! :lol:

[Query]

First, let's get the names right. They are not named "those Russian ice dancers", etc.

Oksana Domnina and Maxim Shabalin altered their costumes for the Olympics so they would be [somewhat] less offensive. E.g., they deliberately lightened the skin tones and altered the patterns so they wouldn't look like any specific tribe.

As for the claim that their steps are not authentic, take a look at any of the compulsary dance patterns in the USFSA and ISU books. For the most part, the only substantial resemblance they have to the styles of dance they are named for is the music, and maybe some slight gestures. It really isn't all that practical to do land-dance style steps on ice, especially with the emphasis competitive ice dancing places on things like long leg extensions, deep edges along semi-circular arcs, etc. They have pointed this out themselves, BTW.

For example, "Swing Dance" started out as an African American cultural dance, developed, as far as I know, in the early twentieth century. At that time it was characterized, as far as I can tell, by extremely fast tempo (often 180 beats /minute or more), movements along straight lines, plus swinging the lady around and back, and in various 360 degree turns, sometimes tossing her from under the legs over top the head (for the more athletic types), a specific set of "Basic" step sequences, cross body leads, and a variety of other moves. The music was Swing, uneven rhythm with syncopations.

Nothing at all of the "Swing Dance" pattern has any element of this. The short steps required of "Swing" because of the fast tempo are replaced by the usual slow long ice dance steps. Plus, the music selections Swing is tested to are a painfully offensive strict tempo non-syncopated modifications of specific swing melodies.

Likewise, is "Riverdance" an authentic replication of Irish Step Dance and American Street Dance?

I don't think any of the Olympic or otherwise ice dance performances could be said to be authentic replications of what they are imitating. They are a deliberate blend of multiple elements from more than one art form.

I would guess that many Australian Aboriginal costumes would be impractical in most of Russia, given the climate. And would be deemed obscene on most U.S. streets. Likewise for what the ladies of Rio de Janeiro or the French Riviera wear on the beach. If we apply U.S. cultural standards to the clothing of other cultures, we are pretty conservative. On the other hand, I'm quite certain most women's ice skating outfits, let alone the concept of public performance by women, would have trouble passing the standards of Saudia Arabia.

Anyway, a major purpose of any costume should be to grab your attention. I think they succeded.

[Isk8NYC]

Their exhibition costumes also included handles. He took her for a rope ride during that routine as well. He was much more attractive with his hair out of his face.

[Query]

This is O.T., but apparently some of what I said about (land dance) Swing Dance was wrong. (I was looking at modern training materials for beginners.) Like it isn't all in straight lines. But, AFAIK, it is generally a spot dance, in which dancers stay within a few steps distance of the starting point. And for the most part, closed position in (land) Swing has loose partner holds and relatively long inter-skater distances, none of which would judge well in ice dancing.

This applies to several of the other nominal compulsary dance styles too.

I'm sure that to some fans of ballroom and social dance, all ice dancing that sort of imitates their style is a travesty.

---

Imagine the reaction if O.D. and M.S. wore their Original Dance outfits into a formal ballroom dance hall, where people were doing stately Waltzes...