Rocker on new blades

[san]

I just got new boots and blades--Riedell 875 and MK Pro. I really like the boots, but the blades are a big adjustment. I've always had MK Pro, but I don't remember having such a huge rocker before, even when they were new.

My heel has to come up about 1" before my bottom toe pick touches the ice. I feel like I am going to topple over, and have no idea how I am ever going to jump again.

Is having to rise up that far to get onto the bottom toe pick normal? My old blades were so flat that I don't know what's normal and what isn't.

[doubletoe]

Yes, that is normal! You should find that your spins are greatly improved once you get used to the new rocker. However, for jumps, you are going to have to point your toes harder as you take off on edge jumps and also point the toes of your picking foot harder as you pick on pick jumps. You will also need to really push your heel down as you land. Meanwhile, do lots of edges and turns to get used to the new round rocker. As you skate, think of lowering your butt so that your legs are bent at a 90-degree angle, and try to feel your weight in the middle of the blade with each stroke.

[san]

Thanks, doubletoe. I feel better knowing that it's normal. It's frustrating feeling like I'm starting from scratch with everything, but I suppose it's inevitable. I think I'll hold off on jumping until the boots are a bit broken in and I can bend more. In the meantime, I'll do lots of edges, etc., like you suggested. Thanks!

[Isk8NYC]

Part of the problem is that the boots are stiff. You can't quite bend and flex your foot yet, so you're gauging by the heel lift.

The rocker's under the ball of your foot right?

[san]

The rocker's under the ball of your foot right?

I think so. It's so hard to tell--right now it feels like I'm skating on top of very large ball bearings. But it's getting a little better--I'm just way too chicken to jump yet.

That being said, I'm wondering if I should have gotten a blade with a 8' rocker so the transition wouldn't be so hard.

[vesperholly]

When I went from 8' (Wilson Gold Seal) to 7' (MK Phantom) blades, I had a terrible time transitioning my spins. It took a good three months and several superman-type falls, but they are definitely better now. To my surprise, jumps improved immediately.

New boots AND blades is a tough combo. It takes longer because you've changed so much all at once. Be patient, it'll be over before you know it!! :)

[kayskate]

Are the boots a different brand than what you had before? If so, that makes the transition even harder. I have always used MK Pro. Love them and never plan to buy anything else. They may be part of why I have good spins. IMO, the MK Pros are worth the time it will take to get used to them. Enjoy!

Kay

[Mrs Redboots]

Ohhhhhh - Tell. Me. About. It! I had this problem in the summer when I changed to new blades - they have a huge, huge rocker and I could barely skate for months without feeling that I was going to fall on my nose. Even now, I have not regained some of the skills I'd lost - talk about showing up all, but all, one's bad habits!

The good news is you do get used to it - and your skating improves as you work out how not to rock on your toes!

[Isk8NYC]

I have a couple of drills that I use to get my students to USE the rocker and toerake properly. They could help in this situation, but I'm not sure about how much since you have new boots, but they can't hurt anything.

Forward Rock Up:
. Stand facing a wall with your hands on the inner edge.
. Glide forward SLOWLY on two feet and rock up to the toerake to stop.
. Hold that pointed position for a split second.
. Bend your knees and roll back down and away from the wall.
(When you're comfortable on two feet, start trying one foot.)

Backward Rock Up:
. Glide backwards on two feet, bend your knees, and roll up to the toerake to stop.
. Hop up (no rotation at all) and land on pointed toerake.
. Roll back down from the toerake to the edges and glide out in a checked position.
(Same thing - use two feet to get the rhythm and hop, then switch to one foot when ready)

Daisies: (Really for edging more than jumping, but every little bit helps)
. Skate on any edge along a hockey circle with checked upper body. (FI=cross check; FO=check)
. Press down with your foot to sharply deepen the edge.
. Glide INTO the circle to trace a new circle heading towards the center dot.
. At the halfway point of the new circle, switch your arms, THEN bring your foot forward over the tracing. (Free foot in front of skating foot)
. Pull your edge back out of the new circle to return to the hockey circle at the same point.
. Continue along the circle and repeat all the way around.
(I usually have students alternate FO and FI in one direction, then reverse to practice the other side.)

Good luck! I've changed blades more times than I care to remember in the last year, but at least I kept the same &*(^% boots. New boots will take a while to break in.

[san]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. And those are great exercises, Isk8NYC--I'll work on them today.

I went from Riedell Gold Star boots to Riedell 875, which is essentially a redesigned Gold Star. I really, really like my new boots so far.

I've always had MK Pro blades, and don't remember the rocker being so huge when I got my last set 15 years ago. I've been skating for 34 years and have never had an equipment transition this hard before!!!!

[Isk8NYC]

I thought there was a rumor that the new Riedells had a slightly higher heel than the pre-2010 models. Maybe that's part of the problem? Are your back three turns and brackets easier?

[san]

I thought there was a rumor that the new Riedells had a slightly higher heel than the pre-2010 models. Maybe that's part of the problem? Are your back three turns and brackets easier?

I haven't tried any back 3's or brackets yet--still too scared!! 8O

I hauled out my old boots, and the heel height between the Gold Stars and 875 is the same. Good thought, though. I think part of the adjustment is also the fact that the new boots are 1/2 size smaller (previous boots were too big), and thus the new blades are 1/4" smaller as well. I think I'm expecting too much out of too many changes.

I also have a 5/8" grind on the new blades right now. I'm going to have the shop put a 1/2" grind on them, more like what I'm used to, and hopefully that will help the stability. I feel like I'm sliding around on top of tipping forward.

[Isk8NYC]

I usually use a 3/8" ROH, but this year, I tried a 1/2" hollow and a 5/16" - didn't like either, although the 5/16" wasn't too bad. I really felt like I was sliding sideways, even after they were first sharpened.

I'm not dainty to start with, I'm demonstrating more than skating, so I'll stick with a deeper hollow.

[RachelSk8er]

I thought there was a rumor that the new Riedells had a slightly higher heel than the pre-2010 models. Maybe that's part of the problem? Are your back three turns and brackets easier?

My skate guy told me this was the case when I ordered my new boots (since I was hoping to re-use blades from older model boots). I'm really hoping my blades won't be too long now...I guess I'll know in another week or two when the boots get here.

[doubletoe]

That being said, I'm wondering if I should have gotten a blade with a 8' rocker so the transition wouldn't be so hard.

The rocker radius (7' vs 8') does not influence the feel of the blade nearly as much as the rocker profile (rocker shape) does. The 7' MK Phantom and the 8' Wilson Pattern 99 have the same rocker profile so that should not be a difficult transition. Likewise, the 7' MK Gold Star and the 8' Wilson Gold Seal have the same rocker profile and I can tell you first hand that my jumps and spins felt exactly the same on both (I normally use Gold Stars, but I borrowed some Gold Seals from a friend, had them sharpened by my regular sharpener, mounted them on my old boots, and could immediately do all of my jumps and spins on them).
However, if you switch from a Phantom/Pattern 99 to a Gold Star/Gold Seal, you are going to have a hard time on spins and edge jump takeoffs.

[san]

Doubletoe, thank you for the clarification on the rocker profile vs. rocker size. I am convinced that the MK Pro must have a different profile than it did when I bought my last pair 15 years ago, b/c I have never, ever had a blade feel like this one does. I emailed Riedell about it, and they claim the blades are exactly the way they always were, even after I pointed out that the toe picks are different on my new blades than on my old blades. Oh well--I'm just going to have to adjust somehow.

Rachel--on the heel height--I can't see any difference in heel height between my old Gold Stars and new 875s. I don't know about other Riedell boot models, though.

[doubletoe]

Doubletoe, thank you for the clarification on the rocker profile vs. rocker size. I am convinced that the MK Pro must have a different profile than it did when I bought my last pair 15 years ago, b/c I have never, ever had a blade feel like this one does. I emailed Riedell about it, and they claim the blades are exactly the way they always were, even after I pointed out that the toe picks are different on my new blades than on my old blades. Oh well--I'm just going to have to adjust somehow.

Rachel--on the heel height--I can't see any difference in heel height between my old Gold Stars and new 875s. I don't know about other Riedell boot models, though.

Yes, I think there was a slight change to the MK Professionals within the past 10 years. I had a pair from the early/mid 90's (since I had taken time off) and I remember noticing that the toepick on the new ones was bigger when I went to buy new blades in 2003. I did not get the new Professionals; I upgraded to the MK Gold Stars instead. They have the same radius and basic profile, but of course the brand new Gold Stars weren't flattened out like my old Pro's. They felt very "rockery" at first, but my spins immediately improved and I also finally landed my first axel within a month of switching.

[san]

They felt very "rockery" at first, but my spins immediately improved

I'm glad to hear that, b/c my spins are currently a complete disaster on the new blades. I thought having a rocker would improve them, but it's had the opposite effect. Part of the problem is that my back-crossover I use to set up the spin has been thrown off by the rocker. I think I am literally going to have to relearn everything!

[sk8tmum]

I went from Riedell Gold Star boots to Riedell 875, which is essentially a redesigned Gold Star. I really, really like my new boots so far.


Somewhat OT: how do the 875's compare to the Gold Star in terms of stiffness and weight? We've doing the same switch next month; we've been told that they are slightly stiffer and slightly lighter. Your opinion - ?

[san]

sk8mum, I had emailed Riedell when I was selecting new boots and asked them what the replacement for the Gold Star was in terms of stiffness, and they recommended the 875.

It's hard for me to tell if they're stiffer than my Gold Stars were when new, but they are definately much, much lighter. I wear a size 8, so it's really noticeable.

I really, really like my new boots. Even though they're not broken in, they're already more comfortable than my old Gold Stars. There's more padding, and the ankles come pre-punched out, which made a big difference for me in terms of comfort.