Question--Future Adult Sectionals

[RachelSk8er]

For those of you who have competed at adult sectionals before, I have a question.

How would you feel if an adult sectional competition is held in conjunction with a competition for "kids", but is organized so that the adult competition is kept separate (i.e. hosted in a rink with a very large lobby area, ample parking, bathrooms, locker rooms, 2 ice surfaces and so that the adult competition would be running on one rink and the other competiton on the other, our own space for results and awards, and a lot of the events that draw really young kids--pre-juv and below, compulsories--held to Thurs/Fri before the adult portion of the competition would start on Saturday)?

Do you think this would work if done correctly, or do you think it would totally detract from the feel of an adult competition? I've been to some adult competitions where it was done this way and worked very well since we were on a totally different ice surface (or the kids' events were mostly over by the time we started), it felt just like being at a regular adult competition. I wouldn't want it to feel like a big competition with adult events there just as an afterthought or stuck in the middle of all the kids' events because that's not an adult competition.

I'd like to bring adult sectionals back to my area, but I think a lot of clubs are hesitant because it's not a big money-maker compared to other competitions they could host, we're not in a big adult skating "hub" (like MI) so a lot of the clubs aren't really exposed to adult skating, and we have a few other competitions that rotate around the area during the same time that clubs know they will make $ off of and therefore could host.

I also think it could be good because a lot of the younger skaters in my area aren't really exposed to adult skating other than the handfull of adults who compete, so this would be a good way for them (and their parents) to see what we're all about. In particular, I'm thinking of the teens who will be our future class I before we know it, or the moms of the basic skills kids who are learning to skate themselves but don't know much about opportunities outside of their learn-to-skate programs. I think the number of competitive adults here has dwindled a bit over the past few years, but we seem to have a lot of adults who are taking private lessons or skate recreationally and may just need a little "nudge".

[manleywoman]

Personally I don't care. I'm fine with it either way. I don't feel as though we must have our own competition.

[rlichtefeld]

This is what we have done with the Peach Classic/Peach Open the last few years. We have the kids in on Friday afternoon/evening and then Saturday for the Peach Open.

The only thing we have on Saturday morning are the long programs. Then we start the adult competition. The Classic starts on Saturday mid morning, and then goes until Sunday afternoon.

The vendors like this, so that they have more potential buyers.

You've already got the judges there, and the setup for the event is only done once.

The problems we have are with the number of out of town kids skaters. Since it's on a Friday, we don't get that many.

Rob

[Mel On Ice]

I don't care either.

[sk8er1964]

As long as they are pretty well seperated, I think it's a great plan.

[RachelSk8er]

This is what we have done with the Peach Classic/Peach Open the last few years. We have the kids in on Friday afternoon/evening and then Saturday for the Peach Open.

The only thing we have on Saturday morning are the long programs. Then we start the adult competition. The Classic starts on Saturday mid morning, and then goes until Sunday afternoon.

The vendors like this, so that they have more potential buyers.

You've already got the judges there, and the setup for the event is only done once.

The problems we have are with the number of out of town kids skaters. Since it's on a Friday, we don't get that many.

Rob


Yeah Peach is exactly what I was thinking of. Being part of the adult competition, you didn't even realize there was a kids' competition going on in the same rink. And it is better for the vendors, videographers, photographers, etc. Officials are there. IJS-trained officials and equipment are even there to possibly, at the very least, give critiques if sectionals are still judged 6.0. I don't know that (if we did adult mids + the competition I'm thinking of) it could be *that* separated to where one competition is totally finished before the other starts (since both of these competitions are bigger than the Peaches), but at the very least two surfaces would enable separating the competitions.

The good thing is that there may not be many out of town kids for the kids competition either, since traditionally it's been only open to Cleveland area clubs (so if we held mids at my rink in conjunction, the two hotels next door to the rink would not be taken up by competitiors for that competition). They did just open it to skaters from a larger geographic area for the first time since this competition started in the 70s due to dwindling participation from only Cleveland clubs, so I will be curious to see how that impacts participation this year before I present the idea to our Council and my club.

[Isk8NYC]

I skated many ISI competitions that were mixed ages. Usually the freeskate events were done in order of test level and age group. It was nice to have a cheering section. It would be cute to see a parent and child both skating in sectionals - nice human interest story!


IMO, they don't need to be totally separate competitions. Hoever, since the standard-track sectionals are all qualifying events that start at Juvenile, would it be uncomfortable for the non-qualifying adult skaters below Silver to have their events intermixed? That would require some thought in the mix-and-match.

I understand the scheduling concerns would be the reason to "separate" the two groups' timeslots during the competition, but I don't think there needs to be a wall so that neither would ever overlap the other.

I wonder if combining the standard and adult sectionals would discourage or prevent one-sheet rinks from bidding on the event? (Std Sectionals is usually held at multiple-sheet facilities, but Adult Sectionals doesn't require that currently.)

[RachelSk8er]

I wonder if combining the standard and adult sectionals would discourage or prevent one-sheet rinks from bidding on the event? (Std Sectionals is usually held at multiple-sheet facilities, but Adult Sectionals doesn't require that currently.)

You couldn't combine standard and adult sectionals. Standard sectionals is held in November, adult sectionals are not until late Feb/early March. Not to mention that standard sectionals probably wants nothing to do with adult skating.

[NoVa Sk8r]

You couldn't combine standard and adult sectionals. Standard sectionals is held in November, adult sectionals are not until late Feb/early March. Not to mention that standard sectionals probably wants nothing to do with adult skating.Way back (at least in 1997), they were combined!

ETA:
http://www.put.com/Skate/East/results.html

[Isk8NYC]

You couldn't combine standard and adult sectionals. Standard sectionals is held in November, adult sectionals are not until late Feb/early March. Not to mention that standard sectionals probably wants nothing to do with adult skating.Oh, I didn't realize you meant to combine Adult Sectionals with a non-sectionals Standard or Test Track competition. I understand now, thanks. That's why there was an emphasis on keeping the two separate.

That does make sense from a club financial standpoint. It could even be combined with a Basic Skills competition.
Maybe some of the adults would be willing to judge a few of the basic skills events - it keeps them neutral.

[pedonskates]

I think it was the 2003 adult Eastern sectionals in Cicero, NY that was associated with a "kid" competition. Or was it 2004?? It was great whichever year it was because my coach would come to be with the kids as well.
I skate with kids every time I skate, so competing with them would really be no different.
Actually, when adult events were not at a nearby competition, I would compete "with" the kids. Even though I got creamed at intermediate by someone 1/3 my age, I still skated well. For me.

[doubletoe]

I personally love being in competitions that have both standard track and adult events! Golden West (Labor Day weekend every year) comes to mind.

[vesperholly]

Hm. All-adult competitions are certainly nice. Adult skaters are a minority, so when we can have a little corner of the spotlight to ourselves, it's good. It seems like validation of the whole endeavor to have dedicated Sectional and National competitions.

OTOH, I completely understand why adult-only competitions aren't always feasible, and I'd rather see them held in conjunction with kid events than not at all. In fact, I think exposing kid skaters to adult skating is very good for broadening their minds, showing that skating doesn't have to stop at 18 and takes many different forms. A cooperative spirit is the way forward for skating in a rough economy. Save Our Skating!! :mrgreen:

[Mrs Redboots]

It's worked here in the UK, although the PTB don't really like letting adults and kids use the same changing-rooms at the same times if at all possible.

[RachelSk8er]

It's worked here in the UK, although the PTB don't really like letting adults and kids use the same changing-rooms at the same times if at all possible.

If we pulled this off, I would NOT let that happen. My rink has plenty of locker rooms to designate. The last thing I want to be around when I'm getting ready to compete is some prima donna skating mom living vicariously through her bratty skater kid in there doing what prima donna skating moms do and dolling her little princess up, or the bratty skating kid who doesn't live up to prima donna skating mom's expectations being in the locker room throwing a tantrum after she skates. I competed at a competition in Columbus last year (offered adult bronze-gold compulsory and free, and compulsory and free for juvenile and below. Adult turnout was actually really good for a small local competition--there were 7 in silver free, although it was I/II and III combined). I was trapped in a locker room full of these types getting ready for compulsory, and I got a headache from all the spray glitter they were dousing these little girls with.

OTOH, I completely understand why adult-only competitions aren't always feasible, and I'd rather see them held in conjunction with kid events than not at all. In fact, I think exposing kid skaters to adult skating is very good for broadening their minds, showing that skating doesn't have to stop at 18 and takes many different forms. A cooperative spirit is the way forward for skating in a rough economy. Save Our Skating!!

I'm not sure how numbers were at sectionals last year or how they are looking this year compared to the past, but getting rid of adult sectionals due to turnout/lack of clubs bidding ALWAYS comes up at the adult committee meeting every year at ANs. We don't want that to happen, so if more clubs can think out of the box and combine it with something (whether a competition or some type of show/exhibition for their club), that could be a solution. We get to keep our competition, so we're happy. Clubs might be more likely to bid on hosting because they know it is more likely to be more profitable for them. So they're happy.

[pairman2]

I think combined competitions are fine. As was pointed out, they were common in the past and perhaps in the future, they may be the only $ viable way to run most events. However, I did observe quite a lot of negative comment here when the Aston (former Halloween Classic) announced a mixed competition this past fall, and the competition was subsequently cancelled for lack of entries. At some point, it may be combined comps or none at all.

[w.w.west]

I'm not sure how numbers were at sectionals last year or how they are looking this year compared to the past, but getting rid of adult sectionals due to turnout/lack of clubs bidding ALWAYS comes up at the adult committee meeting every year at ANs. We don't want that to happen, so if more clubs can think out of the box and combine it with something (whether a competition or some type of show/exhibition for their club), that could be a solution. We get to keep our competition, so we're happy. Clubs might be more likely to bid on hosting because they know it is more likely to be more profitable for them. So they're happy.

It does always seem to come up. It doesn't help either when there aren't any bids. I keep telling people that if you want to show that you want AS to stay, then bid on them! Your club hosted AS a few years back. It was great! I vote that you do it again. :P

[RachelSk8er]

It does always seem to come up. It doesn't help either when there aren't any bids. I keep telling people that if you want to show that you want AS to stay, then bid on them! Your club hosted AS a few years back. It was great! I vote that you do it again. :P

They won't, the board claims that they didn't make enough money off of it. But, if I throw this idea out there, they may go for it. I just wanted to get some opinions first. Or I may be switching home clubs altogether (moving closer to work) and the club I'm interested in joining may go for hosting AS on its own.

[w.w.west]

They won't, the board claims that they didn't make enough money off of it. But, if I throw this idea out there, they may go for it. I just wanted to get some opinions first. Or I may be switching home clubs altogether (moving closer to work) and the club I'm interested in joining may go for hosting AS on its own.

This always baffles me. I mean...how much money do clubs expect? It makes me wonder what is "enough"? Adult Mids has averaged around $7,000 income since its inception. I've seen the financial statements for almost all of them, and none have made less than $4,000. To me, that is not bad for a weekend. Yes, there is a lot of work and time put into it and maybe that doesn't seem like a fair trade when you compare the two, but really...what is worth it when we are talking about non-profit clubs? Nothing that requires volunteers to make it run is really "worth it" if you want to look at bottom lines. Sorry...off my soapbox. now. Thanks for your efforts!

[RachelSk8er]

This always baffles me. I mean...how much money do clubs expect? It makes me wonder what is "enough"? Adult Mids has averaged around $7,000 income since its inception. I've seen the financial statements for almost all of them, and none have made less than $4,000. To me, that is not bad for a weekend. Yes, there is a lot of work and time put into it and maybe that doesn't seem like a fair trade when you compare the two, but really...what is worth it when we are talking about non-profit clubs? Nothing that requires volunteers to make it run is really "worth it" if you want to look at bottom lines. Sorry...off my soapbox. now. Thanks for your efforts!

I have no freakin clue. I'm probably switching home clubs after this season, there is either extreme mismanagement going on or priorities aren't straight with my home club and I'm kind of fed up with it (and with my work/school schedule, I don't have the time to run for the board and be a part of the solution). And if I do switch clubs, I'll pursue my goal of getting sectionals and eventually ANs here with my new club.

I currently represent a club that has the largest membership in our area, has hosted JNs twice in the past 3 years, was the official practice rink for US nationals last year, hosts a successful basic skills competition each spring, and hosted the largest local competition (that rotates around the area) last season, and adult mids in what, 06? Yet every year, the board cries that our club is flat out broke. HOW!? Something is just not right. I've been a home club member at 3 other area clubs since I started skating as a kid (one of which was my current club before it transferred rinks/changed names). My mom was the fundraising director of one club for years (and we had so much fundraising coming in that my parents didn't pay a dime for me to skate on the senior synchro team), plus 2 college clubs and 2 clubs when I lived out of state, and not a single one has ever had financial issues like my club claims to have. Figure skating clubs are not supposed to make some sort of obscene profit. Members come up with plenty of suggestions and ideas, and usually the answer is an immediate "we can't do that" or "we don't have time to do that" or we're ignored altogether. They wonder why they're losing members left and right.

I'm so fed up with my club and their latest "brilliant idea" (which I won't even get into) that I actually looked into switching home clubs mid-season because I didn't like hearing my club's name announced with my name at Wyandotte this past weekend and I really have no desire to represent them at Nationals. Except I registered for sectionals and ANs under this club already so it's too late to fix it.

[w.w.west]

I'm so fed up with my club and their latest "brilliant idea" (which I won't even get into) that I actually looked into switching home clubs mid-season because I didn't like hearing my club's name announced with my name at Wyandotte this past weekend and I really have no desire to represent them at Nationals. Except I registered for sectionals and ANs under this club already so it's too late to fix it.

I hear you. Been there and done it! Not mid-season but almost. Just so you know...it is not too late to do it even though you already registered. It is more work than just in new season. You need to get your present club to sign a form saying you are a member in good standing and submit with membership form to new club. Then you would just need to let the LOC's know and HQ for AN that you have a new club. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[LWalsh]

I don't mind a combined event at all. As long as the events are seperated. BUT I have a different reason that no one has mentioned. I also coach basic skills/low level Freestyle kids and the competitions that combine the schedule for adults and kids I cannot do because I have an obligation to the kids I coach all year long.

Just a thought....

lwalsh